Subject:More AP7 demo strangeness

Posted by: drbam

Date:11/24/2009 5:37:35 AM

Since AP7 appears to be unreliable (at least on my system-see my post from yesterday), last evening I decide to render the project I was working on to separate files so I could import it into a more stable DAW (Vegas 7 or Reaper in my case). So I chose "save each track as a separate file" and watched in amazement while AP7 randomly rendered the files in no sequential order. There were 21 mono tracks in the project and AP7 began rendering somewhere around track 12 (can't remember exactly) - rendered about 3 more going from 13-16, then started at track 1 and kept moving around like this until the process was completed. What this means of course is that all the tracks are now incorrectly numbered in terms of my session layout and makes the import into a different DAW quite tedious to say the least!

After being an Acid user since version #1 all I can say is WTF! To say I am frustrated with this is a gross understatement. Given my experience with AP6 (which I used a lot) I expected AP7 to be a bit buggy but this is over-the-top. I've spent about 3 full days of very intense work checking AP7 out, hoping that it might be a step forward in stability from AP6 but in my case, its much worse and not even useable.

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: Eric Christian

Date:11/24/2009 6:21:25 AM

Buy the full product, mine works fine...

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: drbam

Date:11/24/2009 7:03:40 AM

The demo is supposed to function fully as a "full product" except that it prompts the user to purchase when closing. That said, it is possible that there is a bug within the demo coding but I'm certainly not going to pay $150 to find out. That's Sony's responsibility.

As far as yours "working fine", good for you. The fact is AP7 is NOT working fine on my system and I'm trying to resolve it. So my question to you and anyone else who is reading this; have you tried the following and if so, what are your results?

Do you use a control surface, and more specifically the Mackie MCU or MCU Pro?

Does AP7 ALWAYS direct you to the correct folder(s) when rendering/saving files?

When "rendering all tracks to a separate file", does AP7 render the tracks in proper sequential order (1, 2, 3, etc)?

If all the above works for you (or anyone else) correctly, then I must assume that something is amiss in my system, although I can't imagine what it might be and especially how it would cause AP7 to behave this way. My system is custom built, dedicated for studio use - configured properly by a tech who does it for a living. It is completely lean and has nothing on it that should interfere with proper and optimal functioning in a recording studio environment. Reaper 3.+, Vegas 7, and Sound Forge 8 work as they should.

Thanks!

UPDATE re: saving tracks to separate files - Tried it again with another project - same results. The rendering started at track 8 of a 12 track session (numbering track 8 as #1) then proceeded to render the rest of the files in no logical sequence.

So I will ask the question again to Peter or whoever from Sony might be reading this: Can you confirm that the AP7 demo is "fully functioning" or not? Other than the purchase option when closing, is the demo coded differently so that it might be causing these weird behaviors?

FWIW, I imported these rendered projects into Reaper 3 (not an easy task because of the GUI and routing differences) and have worked for about 4 hours now without a hiccup including using the MCU Pro. I really would like to use AP7 because I the workflow is so familiar and I can really move around the GUI quickly, but I'm not going to purchase it in order to determine whether it will work on my system. That's what the demo is for and if the demo is fully functioning, then obviously I need to move on and not waste any more of my time or yours.

Thanks!

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:11/25/2009 11:27:14 AM

In order:

I use an external controller but for basic purposes (like playback and such) using the generic control surface.

I set my desired folder under Options > Preferences > Folders; it renders to the folder just fine. (I set mine to "<Project>", which renders to the folder I saved my project into.)

Yes. Not sure what's causing your renders to go out of order and go kablooey. Doesn't sound right at all. Did you try sending your project to another system with ACID Pro 7 (full or demo) installed and try rendering to see if you can reproduce?

Iacobus

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: drbam

Date:11/25/2009 12:37:03 PM

Thanks mD.

I have "Options > Preferences > Folders;" set to "Project" as well but again, the AP7 demo is inconsistent about how/where it directs me when I render. Sometimes its the correct project folder - other times its something else. My sense is that the demo is not coded correctly and therefore does not perform exactly as the fully purchased version. No way to confirm this other than to purchase it or keep spending time troubleshooting, neither of which I'm inclined to do. Additionally, I've got two CD projects with pressing deadlines so I'm about burned out with trying to figure out what's going on with AP7 and need to stay productive.

In terms of trying the rendering on another system. I may do that at a later date if I feel I want to revisit it. However, I've imported and rebuilt the projects in the latest version of Reaper and things are running extremely smooth and solid, although I'm still in somewhat of a learning curve. But dealing with a learning curve is much more preferable and productive than trying to troubleshoot software buggy-ness. Thanks again for your response.

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:11/25/2009 8:04:35 PM

My understanding is that you don't get a different version by buying a licence - it just registers the demo. However, you do get to download the latest version, so that might have fixed some of these bugs you are seeing.

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: drbam

Date:11/26/2009 5:53:22 AM

Thanks jumbuk - I waited this long to even try the demo in order for the most obvious bugs to be addressed, and double-checked to confirm that the demo is the most recent update (7.0c) before even installing it. That's why I was asking for confirmation from Peter or whoever as to whether the demo is coded differently. At any rate, I'm continuing to get into Reaper and have spent some long hours with it over these past couple of days without the slightest glitch so I suppose I'll just fully transition over to it. In the future I may continue to use AP6 for basic loop construction and then render the project to do the serious work in Reaper.

FWIW, and this is more for the Sony staff, I've been having some communication with 3 other artists/collaborators (one of which is an award-winning artist in the ambient genre'), who were waiting on my report about my experience with AP7 because they also were going to upgrade from AP6 as well. Of course, they are now grateful that they waited and saved themselves some of the frustration I experienced. The point is that SCS lost 4 AP7 purchases this week. Oh well . . .

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: krushem

Date:11/26/2009 8:21:49 AM

Every DAW related forum always has these "I'm jumping to REAPER" threads.I'm beginning to wonder if this is Cocko's tactics to get more business?

Anyways, just to speak out on using AP7 daily, AP7 has been nothing but stable for me and has made my musical hobby enjoyable. When I have rendered individual tracks,I've never come across any problems.

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: drbam

Date:11/26/2009 9:55:46 AM

FYI: mine is NOT a jump to Reaper thread. I'd prefer to use AP7 if I weren't experiencing the problems I'm having with it. I've been using Acid since version 1 and I record and produce music for a living - not a hobby.

If AP7 is "nothing but stable" for you, then I'm envious. So I'd appreciate it if you could shed some light on why I'm having the problems I am but they do not show up in Reaper. To be absolutely clear, I am moving to Reaper out of necessity so I can actually finish some projects and it has nothing to do with some conspiracy about Cocko's so called business "tactics." From what I can tell, they really don't need to employ any "tactics" because they are producing a solid product and will fix virtually any legitimate issue or bug in a matter of days. But that is not the point here. The point is about AP7's instability for many users as documented in this forum - but certainly not all users. If I were a noob with little experience and using a questionable setup, then I would be more likely to assume that the problem lies with me. But again, the facts are that I'm a professional, with professional equipment including a custom built, audio optimized intel quad computer, great converters, and everything else - and obviously I am no stranger to Acid. I'm simply trying to troubleshoot something that SCS hasn't appeared concerned enough about to get involved in this thread.

A final question for clarification: you said you have never come across any problems when rendering individual tracks. Did you actually mean rendering individual tracks - one at a time? Or are you referring to what I had a problem with which is to choose "Render as" from the file menu and then choose "render each track as a separate file" which will render every track in your session, no matter how many are there? If not, then please try it and report back.

Thanks!

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: krushem

Date:11/26/2009 11:36:43 AM

I am speaking of RENDER AS..'save each track as seperate file'.
They go to the exact folder i want it to. It is organized in order the way i want it.

I'm just replying to this thread to let people know that it does work for me.
So, if some new viewer jumps to this forum, they know that this is not a problem for all users.

One more thing,I used to use REAPER several months ago, but, it was never MIDI friendly for my setup.

Subject:RE: More AP7 demo strangeness

Reply by: drbam

Date:11/26/2009 12:14:15 PM

Thanks krashem - that is helpful and I appreciate you clarifying the rendering function. Of course, this makes my experience of it even more confusing. Maybe it will get sorted out but for now, I'm needing to complete some projects so I'll use what is working best on my system which means reliability and no crashes, freezes and other weirdness. For the last few days Reaper is performing perfectly. However, I am primarily an audio only guy and rarely use midi so our requirements are different. Thanks again.

Cheers