Subject:Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Posted by: Bass1972

Date:10/20/2009 8:39:36 PM

So, I don't want want Acid Pro to quantize anything - as I play along with the drum loop some piano it sounds good as it is recording. But, when Acid Pro plays it back the keys sound like they have been forced to fit into a particular groove or something - some notes are getting chopped and repositioned. All I want is for the playing to go in and played back to me with imperfections (my own playing imperfections that is) and all.

On the Input Filters, the Quantize filter is not enabled.
I have groove pool set to NONE (If that even matters)

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance,
Bass1972

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/21/2009 7:00:18 AM

Please fill our your system specs in your user profile and make sure to set them as visible.

What MIDI input device are you using?

What audio hardware are you using? Are you using ASIO drivers?

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: Bass1972

Date:10/22/2009 3:27:12 PM

Using ASIO drivers - an Alesis micron keyboard connected to an M-Audio MIDISsport UNO (USB-to-MIDI interface).

Audio Device Type and Default audio recording device: Microsoft Sound Mapper (other selectable options are Direct Surround Sound Mapper, Windows Classic Wave Driver)

MIDI Input - Hardware Port: USB Uno MIDI IN
MIDI Track Playback - Hardware Port: USB Uno MIDI OUt

With the headphones on connected to my sound card as I am playing/recording the keys along with the drum loop it sounds just as I want it. But it is during the playback where it sounds like a forced quantization.

Please let me know if I can provide any more details.

Thanks,
Bass1972

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/22/2009 6:36:54 PM

Please fill our your system specs in your user profile and make sure to set them as visible.

Using ASIO drivers - an Alesis micron keyboard connected to an M-Audio MIDISsport UNO (USB-to-MIDI interface).

Audio Device Type and Default audio recording device: Microsoft Sound Mapper (other selectable options are Direct Surround Sound Mapper, Windows Classic Wave Driver)

You are not using ASIO drivers based upon you Microsoft Sound Mapper setting as the Audio Device Type. What audio device are you using in your computer? Does it have ASIO drivers. It does not sound like you have installed ASIO drivers for your audio card. If you did, you would see a selection for that as well.

You might want to try lowering the buffer settings when using the Microsoft Sound Mapper

When you look at the MIDI data on your track, does it look quantized to the grid?

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: Bass1972

Date:10/22/2009 8:36:31 PM

You're right - I have the Asio drivers for my M-AUDIO box but currently am just working at getting MIDI working and am using the Microsoft Sound Mapper.

So, I've narrowed down the issue a little bit more. After I record my keys to the drum loops I can fix the keys by dragging the keyboard track just a little bit to the right and it sounds like when I recorded it. But this requires me dragging each time I record the keys. Hope I am clear on what I am trying to say.

I am playing with the Microsoft Sound mapper buffers but haven't fixed it yet.

Any ideas?

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/22/2009 8:49:18 PM

The higher latencies introduced by the Microsoft Sound Mapper could easily be the cause of this problem.

You are getting latency when you play your keyboard as to when you hear things. At the default latency of the Mapper, this can easily take away the groove or 'quantize' the recording.

I recommend trying to lower the buffer settings for the Sound Mapper using your ASIO drivers.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: Bass1972

Date:10/22/2009 9:21:56 PM

What actually appears to be happening is that the keys when played back are ahead of the curve by 250ms-500ms. While recording it everything sounds good going in - the keys are matched up with the drum loops. It's just on the play back that the keys are ahead about 250ms-500ms. My current work around is to just drag the key track a little bit to the right in the timeline area and at that point that entire clip recording sounds good. It's just as if there is an off-set or something during the recording process.

I played with the "Hardware recording latency" slider - started at the extremes +1,000, then -1000, then +500, -500, etc. Each time after each adjustment I would go back and re-record the keys to the drum loop. And same result - the keys play back just a little bit in the future in the +250ms to 500ms range.

So, it's not a latency issue.

I tried also with the Windows Class Wave Driver, Direct Sound Mapper also. No go.
I must be missing a setting or something.

Thanks,
Bass1972

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/23/2009 6:44:08 AM

> I tried also with the Windows Class Wave Driver, Direct Sound Mapper also. No go. I must be missing a setting or something.

Yea, you are missing the fact that you need to be using the ASIO drivers as Peter said. If you want accurate recording you need to use ASIO. Just install the drivers, select them as your audio device and see if the problem goes away (it should).

~jr

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/23/2009 8:24:48 AM

I played with the "Hardware recording latency" slider...

This is for AUDIO recording, not MIDI.

You need to adjust (lower) your buffer sizes or switch to ASIO.

So, it's not a latency issue.

Yes, it is - at least based upon your discussion. Because latency caused what you play on your MIDI keyboard to be delayed through a softsynth, you are compensating to play against what you are hearing. If the latecny is 100 ms, then you are playing in realtime late against what you are hearding. To account for the latency against existing material, you are playing early, resulting in the recording results you describe.

Please try lowering your Mapper buffer size or switching to an ASIO driver - even ASIO4All.

You have raised an issue that we need to consider for a future version of ACID. That is how does higher latencies affect MIDI recording.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 7.0 - forcing my chops into quantization

Reply by: Bass1972

Date:10/23/2009 1:08:39 PM

Awesome! Thanks that did it. ASIO4ALL driver definitely fixed it. Thanks for helping me with this 48 hour battle :-) !

Thanks Peter!!!!

Bass1972