What is WRONG with VP9.0b (32 & 64bit) preview???

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 9/14/2009, 12:22 PM

Hi,

I intended to start a new AVCHD project today. With big hopes I planned to do it in VP9.0b 64 bit, since I do not need any third party plug ins. I would, however, like to use its new features that I have paid for.

My source material is 1920 x 1080 50i AVCHD (mts) files from a Sony SR12, directly copied from the HD to an internal to the PC (not system) HD, with a Sata tranfer speed of 82Gbyte/s.

The material consists of fairly short clips (2..6 seconds each).

The problem: Whatever preview settings is choose in VP9.0b (32 or 64 bit) - the preview drops from from full frame rate (of 25 frames/s) to about 12f/s - after each clip ends and the nest starts. This renders the preview of edits totally useless!

I have tested everything. I know Vegas fairly well. The project properties are set to match the clip's on the timeline. I have tried alldifferent preview settings, from best to preview, from full, half, quarter to auto. I have let Vegas select the preview for best performance - and then not. I have played with the preview ram amount. You name it. The spooky thing is that the preview resolution (or the other) setting(s) does not affect the problem at all.

The preview is PERFECT at 25 fps as long as the clip has been playing for a couple of seconds, but immediately after transferring to the next clip the preview speed drops to half. Just for one to thee seconds, and then returns to normal. Like some prefetch of data has been forgotten to implement in VP9...

VP8.0c (both 32 AND 64 bit) works perfectly!!! I run at full 25 fps from clip to clip, even at best(full) preview.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE AVCHD PREVIEW IN 9.0b??? VP8.0c works fine!!!

I apologize - this subject must have been discussed before a couple of times. I just think that this issue still deserves it's own thread, and more comments from other users - for the SCS people to take it more seriously.

I am running a fairly fast PC, QX9650 quad core at 3.8GHz, 8GByte of DDR3 ram running at 1600MHz. This problem is eminent both on Vista x64 AND WIN7 (yes - I know that the latter is not officially supported - but for how long).

Vegas 8 works perfectly - Vegas 9 chokes at each clip beginning. I would not call this improved AVCHD support, as SCS proudly brags about in VP9. Some of you might wonder why I'm whining, but come on, this is not how is should be!!! There was a major upgrade from 8 to 9. Two (a + b) bug releases later it still works worse than its predecessor...

Please chime in you other kind people that experience the same. Have you found a workaround for this "issue"???? Have you rised tickets? Does SCS recognize this as a problem..whoops "issue"... ???

So - I'm back with the old faithful 8.0c - gee I'm happy I kept it...

Sincerely,

Christian

Comments

farss wrote on 9/14/2009, 3:11 PM

It's not just AVCHD that has this problem. This does seem to be the result of a conscious change in how the software works, possibly to do with the adaptive preview quality implementation.
Agree with all your thoughts. V9 is a step backwards. Worse it's bought nothing to the table. XDCAM EX support I thought would make the upgrade worthwhile but that is half done so I've gained nothing. Like you back to V8.

Bob.

ushere wrote on 9/14/2009, 4:30 PM

have you turned the adaptive preview bob mentioned OFF?

i too agree - what a spectacularly dumb idea to incorporate as it is obviously worthless for real time previewing....

leslie

Terry Esslinger wrote on 9/14/2009, 5:07 PM

And where do you go about turning adaptive preview off?

Marc S wrote on 9/14/2009, 5:13 PM

Right click on the "preview window" and you'll see an option to turn it off.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 9/14/2009, 11:55 PM

Hi,

Thx for your comments. The FIRST thing I tried was to turn off the adaptive preview. No effect!

VP9.0b 64 bit renders out my project very fast using all 4 cores. Running in 8.0c and rendering out HD crashes it every time, unless I degrade only to one (1!) core, leaving 3 others just idle... This is a know flaw in 8.0c. The render becomes very slow. The recommended solution is to move to VP9.0b, and that is what I have DONE. But its crippled playback of AVCHD clips reners it useless. I have to go back to VP8 and the circle is closed...

Maybe I should try to edit in 8.0c and then import that project file into 9.0b just for the render? That could be a workaround...

Back to one of my original questions - has anyone reported this to SCS - officially? And got back an answer (as "will be fixed in a future release...")?

Sorry if I feel frustrated - that's because I am. How much you love Vegas you always find the things you also hate... I certainly hope SCS is aware of this and has planned to do something about it... in a future release...

Christian

farss wrote on 9/15/2009, 12:23 AM

You've got nothing to loose reporting it even if someone else has and had a response saying it'll get fixed. The more people complain the more likely it is to get moved up the queue or even recognised as a problem.

Bob.

FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 9/15/2009, 1:07 AM

What I would like to see is a "sticky" listing the fixes that 9c will be addressing. At the moment we all assume that someone has reported the bad preview performance already and maybe no one has. Although SCS read this forum I don't think they accept problems here as bugs, maybe I'm wrong.

So a "Known Bugs" sticky will let be much appreciated.

- Craig

NickHope wrote on 9/15/2009, 8:09 AM

How are people finding HDV preview in 9.0b compared to 8.0?

Jon Robbins wrote on 9/15/2009, 10:30 AM

Same issue here with the preview when editing AVCHD.... I'm using 9b with pretty beefy 64 bit machine.

I have to RAM preview... then edit...then RAM preview..... then edit....etc....

PAINFUL!

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 9/15/2009, 11:03 AM

Hi,

Issued a ticket about this frustrating behaviour that makes it impossible to use VP9 for any serious AVCHD editing. I cincerely hope this is something the SCS people are going to fix. Well - they have to - othervice they have to remove the "AVCHD-compatibl"e advertising...

HVD runs on my fast PC (in VP9.0b) as smooth as any SD material. Not a single glitch, going from clip to clip... I can crossfade with HDV material at full preview resolution at full framerate. Even with some video FX added.

It still is completely possible that other people having slower PC's (I'm not bragging here ;) can experience slowdowns between clips also with HDV-material...

But I experience this only ONLY with AVCHD material. The ironic thing is that my PC runs AVCHD material with full framerate even with some video plugins active - as long as it is a continuos take, with no clip boundaries...

I can even see full framerate with two AVCHD clips crossfading, as long as the crossfade is long enough, so that there is time to return to normal playback after this hickup, at the starting edge of the other clip!!!

Something is elementarily wrong in VP9 data prefetch or something similar...

Christian

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 9/15/2009, 10:55 PM

Hi,

I got a fast and honest reply from SCS!! I think we should more often just contact SCS support and stop whining about nonfunct things here. Well, this forum is excellent for sharing ideas, information, tips and workarounds, additionally some whining must also be tolerated. As long as the comments are constructive. Probably SCS reads this forum occasionally, but as we all know, ralely replies here directly. After having the official answer from SCS I feel more confident knowing that the proble IS recognized by them. I should have contacted them earlier... Here below is (the important) part of their responce. I want to share also with you and hope they don't mind me posting it here:

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. Currently, this is a known limitation within the Vegas software. As a work around, please try rendering your video files to an intermediate format. Also, please continue to download the updates for the Vegas Pro 9.0 program. Our engineers are aware of this issue and are currently working to resolve it. You could, also, continue to use Vegas Pro 8.0c until there has been a fix released for Vegas Pro 9.0. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused, but do appreciate your understanding.

Well, this is exactly what I'm doing. But converting to an intermediate format just because of this is for me a remote option. Too much work, so I stay in 8.0c. This is something we can expect to get fixed, hopefully in the next update, hopefully soon, but who knows when...

Cheers,

Christian

DJPadre wrote on 9/16/2009, 6:37 AM

better yet try this...

1) Right click your preview window
2) Make sure the "adjust size and quality for optimal playback is UNCHECKED

go about youe business and have a nice day...

we're editing 1080p AVCHD's on a quad core unit from 2x HMC's using Newblue filters and it doesnt lag AT ALL using external USB drives

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 9/16/2009, 11:11 PM

Thanks for the tip, but as I wrote in the beginning:

"I have let Vegas select the preview for best performance - and then not. I have played with the preview ram amount. You name it. The spooky thing is that the preview resolution (or the other) setting(s) does not affect the problem at all."

Adjust size and quality for optimal playback is UNCHECKED - but has no effect on this particular problem... :(

This is also what I explained to SCS. They have recognized the problem and working on a fix. Might be that not all of us are affected?! If so, then I wonder what the difference in our systems might be?

Christian