OT: Do USA TVs now play SD PAL DVDs correctly?

NickHope wrote on 6/2/2009, 5:23 AM
I know that, in the past, CRT standard definition TVS in the USA generally wouldn't display PAL TVs properly.

Has that situation now changed with flat-screen HD TVs? Are they "multi-system" like the ones in Europe have been for quite some time?

(The reason is that when I sometimes get an order for a PAL DVD from a USA-based customer I generally question them and advise them to get the NTSC version if it's for TV. But as my original footage is PAL then maybe I should advise them to stick with PAL if it's for a modern TV).

Thanks!

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 6/2/2009, 6:05 AM
as far as I know, no. US delivery systems don't play anything besides US formats either. People can get DVD/BD/VHS/etc. that do both if they wanted though, it's just a matter of searching & $$.
farss wrote on 6/2/2009, 6:34 AM
I don't quite understand the original question. I would have thought they'd either play them or not. Never heard of them playing them incorrectly.

If someone has a HTPC system it'll play anything I'd think.

Bob.
NickHope wrote on 6/2/2009, 6:41 AM
Bob, I remember that a PAL single-system TV (in Greece in the 90s) would "sort-of" play back an NTSC VHS cassette but the picture would be black and white. I've never witnessed what happens when PAL is played back on an NTSC TV. But basically you're right, for all intents and purposes it doesn't work.

I was basically hoping that everything has gone "multi-system" in the USA by now. Or at least to the extent that I could tell USA customers "If you've got an HD panel TV then the PAL version will work".
Laurence wrote on 6/2/2009, 7:03 AM
You can go out of your way to buy a PAL compatible DVD player that will convert to NTSC on the fly, but most players do not. Of the ones that do, some degrade the image and some stretch the video vertically. Usually there is a bit of stutter on the motion. The other way around (NTSC on a PAL player) works almost always and looks great. One thing I've noticed though is that if you play back a 24p DVD, you see it interlaced with the pulldown at 60i.
farss wrote on 6/2/2009, 7:31 AM
The reason that happens is the TV has locked to the frame rate but cannot lock to the chroma subcarrier, so no color. Most systems down here that offer some form of NTSC compatibility simply shift the chroma subcarrier. Most of my kit including our domestic TV plays NTSC in all ita native horrors :)

One reason why a lot of TVs today are NTSC compat is many STB thingies output their menus at NTSC I've noticed.

None of which answers your original question,

But here's another twist, what about BD players and the HDTVs attached to them???

Bob.
NickHope wrote on 6/2/2009, 8:14 AM
Well yes, that's the next question. Will 1080-50i Blu-ray (containing HDV files) play on USA Blu-ray players and HDTVs (and likewise, 1080-60i in PAL-zone)? Both those questions are relevant to me very soon.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 6/2/2009, 9:23 AM
is there any reason you don't make a US based BD/DVD & just test on your system to check? Use generated media if you need to.
Terje wrote on 6/2/2009, 11:49 AM
My experience with HD and SD is the same. PAL stuff will play anything you throw at it. NTSC stuff will only play NTSC. Was true with SD. Seems to be true with HD.

So, create in NTSC and play everywhere. Create in PAL and convert.
Laurence wrote on 6/2/2009, 12:30 PM
The only problem with NTSC content is when it needs to be broadcast in a PAL area. NTSC content is fine for DVD and Bluray distribution, but not for PAL broadcast.

Having said that, there are some high end converters that can even convert 30p to 25p absolutely smoothly. The show "Friends" for instance is shot on film at 30p and yet looks just fine in PAL countries. I've never had any luck doing a 30p to 25p conversion myself however.
corug7 wrote on 6/2/2009, 3:43 PM
Just my 2 cents...

As a general rule, no. But my Olevia 542i will accept any signal I throw at it (at least analog, I don't know about HDMI), which makes it great for QC'ing our international work. I also have some region free DVD players that do a fine job of transcoding from PAL to NTSC. That said, I assume most "brand" names are NTSC (or 60Hz) only.
NickHope wrote on 6/3/2009, 6:39 AM
Thanks for the replies.

>> is there any reason you don't make a US based BD/DVD & just test on your system to check? Use generated media if you need to. <<

With regards to 60i Blu-ray in a PAL country, unfortunately I don't have a set-top Blu-ray player, only a Blu-ray writer which of course will play anything on the computer. I could test some in some shops.

As for SD DVD, I am constantly testing NTSC & PAL SD DVDs on my PAL (multisystem) TV.

>> My experience with HD and SD is the same. PAL stuff will play anything you throw at it. NTSC stuff will only play NTSC. Was true with SD. Seems to be true with HD. <<

That sucks and also surprises me. Surely it wouldn't have been hard for manufacturers globally to include support for PAL DVD and 50i Blu-ray in their HD equipment??? Now I'm starting to wish I'd shot all my HDV stock in 60i, not 50i. Sounds like I'll have to offer 2 versions of my Blu-rays, same as I do with my DVDs.

This is a little confusing. To clarify, what I'm now interested in is:

1. What USA HDTVs/DVD players do with PAL DVDs (sounds like they don't play OK)
2. What USA HDTVs/Blu-ray players do with 1080-50i Blu-rays
3. What HDTVs/Blu-ray players in PAL countries do with 1080-60i Blu-rays (sounds like they will play OK)
TheHappyFriar wrote on 6/3/2009, 7:11 AM
That sucks and also surprises me. Surely it wouldn't have been hard for manufacturers globally to include support for PAL DVD and 50i Blu-ray in their HD equipment???

I would of preferred one single global standard that everybody now uses for capture & delivery. I know there's lots of legacy stuff but nothing stopping EVERY camera/TV from supporting a single specific universal format. All HDTV's/players support 24, why not just at least have all cameras support that to be HD & then there's no question? Record & deliver in 24 (I know it's not perfect, but at least it's a standard for something already!).
Terje wrote on 6/3/2009, 8:32 AM
1. What USA HDTVs/DVD players do with PAL DVDs (sounds like they don't play OK)

The default has to be "none", which is not true since there are good ones that do, but you'll have to go out of your way to get one. In general you have to assume that your US customer will not be able to watch PAL though.

2. What USA HDTVs/Blu-ray players do with 1080-50i Blu-rays

Same as 1. Default assumption is "none".

3. What HDTVs/Blu-ray players in PAL countries do with 1080-60i Blu-rays (sounds like they will play OK)

Here you can basically assume "all", which may also not be entirely true, but I have not tried them all :-)
Terje wrote on 6/3/2009, 8:34 AM
why not just at least have all cameras support that to be HD & then there's no question?

Would be interesting to test, but it would not surprise me if a significant portion of the BDs out there are 24p.
NickHope wrote on 6/3/2009, 11:24 PM
Which begs the question, should I convert my 50i video to 24p (deinterlace and slow down 4%) so I can offer a single format? Would Blu-ray players and TVs worldwide be able to deal with that?
shauntoole wrote on 8/2/2009, 9:42 AM
I'm in the US, and I bought a multi-format Philips DVP-642 DVD player that will play PAL and NTSC DVD's just fine. I got it at Target for about $50. I think they've been replaced with another model now.

European players seem be multiformat-capable. The trick is for the player to output a signal that the TV can accommodate.

As for "Friends," all programs produced on film are shot at 24 fps. In the US, broadcasters put film through a complex interlacing process to broadcast it at 29.97 fps. For PAL, the film is simply sped up to 25 fps and scanned one full frame at a time. The video is interlaced. You'll notice on PAL tapes of TV shows the audio is pitched slightly higher than the NTSC version, thanks to the increased frame speed.