Subject:SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in Synthesis

Posted by: buckaroo

Date:6/30/2009 12:33:40 AM

Not sure if this is the correct forum or not? Have posted to the other forum also...

I have used Soundforge now for around 11 years since v4..for all sorts of audio editing (but not too sure what scripting means?)

Anyway I just wondered if it was possible to create Theta, delta and alpha waves with Soundforge and its Synthesis tools? (is this the right menu for this?)

I know it has white, brown, pink noise but can i download anywhere, or draw in these waveforms, 7–13 Hz
Alpha waves, 4–7 Hz Theta waves etc - is this possible in SF?

I am using v8.0d and hopefully this will be possible in this version?

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in Synthesis

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:6/30/2009 8:45:03 AM

Well, you could try inserting silence in a new file and drawing them by hand with the pencil tool, but that will probably be pretty tedious and difficult.

If you know how to algorithmically generate the desired waveforms, you should be able to do it via Sound Forge's scripting capabilities. There's an example in the scripting SDK called "Generate a constantly falling tone.cs" that demonstrates how you can algorithmically generate new audio.

J.

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in Synthesis

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:6/30/2009 11:57:11 AM

Brain waves are usually represented in print as a sine wave of very low frequency. Soundforge will allow one to output a sine wave of a specific frequency. However your real problem will be reproducing these through your soundcard. Not to mention whatever transducer you're going to be using. Ain't no normal speaker that can go that low.

One way to find out what brain waves really look like is to have an EEG done and output on an oscilloscope or other visual device (chart recorder maybe).

Jack

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in Synthesis

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:7/1/2009 9:08:40 PM

There used to be an audio editor that had built-in brain wave generation. Was it CoolEdit or something like that?

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/2/2009 7:28:57 AM

Yes CoolEdit used to have a function for this. Although there are free tones and waves you can download (do some searches), a better solution is the software from Transparent Corp (http://www.transparentcorp.com/). It is designed for just the sort of thing you describe and they have several programs available. I have NeuroProgrammer-2 which is quite good. FYI: I am not in any way associated with the company.

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/2/2009 1:43:56 PM

Just curious as to how these would be 'used' (emitted somehow as sound waves, or electromagnetic feilds via a coil ?), or just for curiosity.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:7/3/2009 3:50:39 AM

Geoff:
I wondered that myself. Could be he needs to relax and doesn't want to use drugs.
Jack

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/3/2009 5:43:30 AM

Tools / Synthesis / Simple

Select Sine for the Waveform shape

Select a duration

Type in 7, or whatever you wish, for the start frequency

Set the amplitude to something reasonable, such as -3.0 dB

Click [OK]

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/3/2009 6:15:04 AM

"Geoff:
I wondered that myself. Could be he needs to relax and doesn't want to use drugs.
Jack"

Relax, meditate, inner-exploration, sleep, concentration and focus, enhanced learning, non-drug treatment of ADD and many other applications. Sound induced brain entrainment is an area of research and clinical practice that I've been involved in for several years. Interesting and exciting stuff.

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/3/2009 6:23:43 PM

Yeah, but how is it being transduced ?

geoff

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/4/2009 8:30:40 AM

"Yeah, but how is it being transduced ?"

Most of the technology requires using headphones or speakers placed equal distance from the ears. However, some technologies do not require headphones and the sounds can be played over any system with satisfactory results. Of course as it is said around here a lot: YMMV

Most of the work I've been involved with involves mixing binaural beats into musical compositions. The Monroe Institute and their product division refers to this as "Metamusic."

Cheers

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/4/2009 8:27:00 PM

We are talking 7Hz here ?!!

geoff

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:7/4/2009 8:43:19 PM

Yeah. 7Hz. I tried it here at home. My subwoofer kinda rumbled a bit, but it wasn't 7Hz. It didn't make any noticeable sound ... not that my ears would have detected it anyway, but i didn't feel any air movement either.

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/5/2009 7:41:39 AM

This is an area of confusion for sound engineers - myself included when I first began working with this technology. Brainwave Hz (pulse) and audio frequency Hz (pitch) are not the same thing. A short explanation of this (from Tranparency Corp site) is pasted below:

<<There is often a confusion in regards to the definition of Hertz, or cycles per second. When we refer to Hertz (Hz) we are referring to pulses per second, as opposed to the pitch. The pitch of the stimulus can be anything within the range of human hearing (20-20,000 Hz), but the frequency of sound bursts per second is usually below 20, since the most important brainwaves range from 0 - 20 Hz. It is the pulse, not the pitch, that leaves the electrical imprint on the brain. If the pitch of the stimulus is below that of human hearing, no entrainment will occur in most cases.

Picture a metronome set at 5 clicks per second. It could be said that the metronome is clicking at 5 Hertz (Hz). You can hear the metronome clicking 5 times a second, because the pitch of the clicks are well within the hearing range.>>

Hope this helps . . .

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/5/2009 7:03:22 PM

Indicates that they have difficulty in being concise as to the difference between Hz and pulses-per-second. Which doesn't inspire confidence.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/5/2009 8:23:10 PM

Ah yes, skeptics abound. Or perhaps if you REALLY are curious you simply might try it - actually experience this technology for yourself in a supervised controlled setting? Then you can speak from an INFORMED perspective. So, if you are ever visiting Arizona, I'll offer you a session - free of charge. All I ask in return is that you report back on the forum what you experienced and how it impacted you.

Cheers

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: ChristoC

Date:7/6/2009 6:16:04 AM

Reminds me of a quote from Inspector Gadget: "Brain, I speak several languages, and one of them isn't gibberish."

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:7/6/2009 1:34:14 PM

Genuinely interested. The data I have just been inspire to look up shows an irregular continuous waveform as opposed to pulses. But it was Wiki !

Curious as to how to get it out of a soundcard - do many go down that far (?) - or do you use an D-A designed for a DC servo output ?

My main 'concern' is that they are not acoustic waves in the brain, but electrical, and are only detected by the use of an electroencephalogram. To 'beam them back' would presumably require an electromagnetic transducer, rather than electromechanical.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: drbam

Date:7/6/2009 2:42:09 PM

Any sound card will work. I use Vegas and Sound Forge to create the final sound files and sessions for my work (mostly in .wav format). FWIW, The Monroe Institute and Monroe Products who actually brought binaural-beat technology out of the research lab and into commercial applications more than 40 years ago, also use Vegas and Sound Forge as their primary audio apps in their sound labs and research center.

It appears to me from your comments that you are still confused by the pulse/pitch issue. Since I am not a neuroscientist, I probably couldn't answer your questions satisfactorily and perhaps not even if I were a neuroscientist. So I'll simply refer you to some links and you can pick it from there. You can then read the research on brainwave entrainment and hopefully you'll find the answers you seek. There have been controlled studies in this area for over 50 years so you could be busy reading for weeks if you're so inclined.

And another FWIW: My interest in this technology and brainwave entrainment is related to my background as a transpersonal psychologist, educator and shamanic practitioner. Over the past 20+ years, the focus of my research and clinical work has involved study and application of the healing potential of non-ordinary states of consciousness. I'm also a musician and a recording engineer with almost 50 years experience and have integrated my music and healing arts professions together. I am much more interested in the results: the self-improvement and healing outcome of brainwave entrainment than I am with the technical aspects of the neuroscience. So again, I'm sure there are questions that I wouldn't be able to provide adequate or satisfactory answers to. However, if you are open to experiencing it first-hand, I'm am completely confident in my skills and abilities to facilitate for you what could be a positive life-changing experience.

Check out these links and follow up on the references if you want some detailed info.
http://www.transparentcorp.com/products/mindws/entrainment_methods.php
http://www.transparentcorp.com/products/mindws/entrainment.php
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/
http://www.hemi-sync.com/shopcontent.asp?type=Video

Subject:RE: SF - Drawing Theta, Alpha, beta waves in

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:7/6/2009 7:19:47 PM

'Reminds me of a quote from Inspector Gadget: "Brain, I speak several languages, and one of them isn't gibberish."'

... but the rest of them are?

Maybe he meant to say: "Brain, I speak several languages, and gibberish isn't one of them."