Subject:recording vocals USB

Posted by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 6:45:09 AM

Does Acid support USB recording other than MIDI? I'm using an ART mic preamp with a USB output, and the signal is definitely getting there, but I can't hear anything through the headphones (or the built in monitors for that matter.) Since this is the only thing I'm trying to do, it's kind of important.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: lofreequency

Date:5/13/2009 7:15:30 AM

Friendly suggestion. You might fill in your system specs to your profile. What version of Acid, computer specs, etc? :) (See the sticky notes on top of this forum)

Acid Pro does support USB recording and monitoring of your input and prerecorded tracks, it's how I'm recording my band with a Tascam US1641 USB interface...works great.

I'm not sure what the capabilities of other versions of Acid are, but if you are using Acid Pro, it could be you don't have input monitoring enabled on your track, or you don't have your audio device settings correct in the Options>preferences>audio device tab.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/13/2009 7:45:21 AM

What is the exact model of ART mic pre you are using?

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 7:46:51 AM

I appreciate your reply, and fully understand how much I need to learn. (I'm not stupid, just lazy!) I'm using Music Studio, not Pro, and I suspect that's the rub. well, that and prolly the sound card...

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 7:48:50 AM

It's the Project Series tube mic pre "with USB".

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/13/2009 8:14:38 AM

This device looks to be an input only audio device as it appears to ACID. That is, it has no audio outputs that ACID can stream to.

ACID only supports software input monitoring when using ASIO drivers. This requires that the USB audio device provide both input and output ports. It does not appear that the ART device exposes an output for ACID to stream to.

From the docs of the ART:

For a typical recording application where you want to add tracks of audio using the USB bus to your
computer, while monitoring the mix externally for low latency, we suggest the following: Connect your
instrument or microphone to the Tube MP Project Series with USB, then connect to your computer
with a USB cable, next connect the audio output from your computer to a small monitor mixer. Also
connect one of the Tube MP Project Series with USB analog output jacks to the mixer and monitor
the analog mix of the 2 signals from the mixer. In this case the new track that you are recording will
be in real time and have no latency in your monitoring system.


This implies that you need to monitor with external hardware.

It also implies that you must use the Mapper or Wave Classic driver model in ACID. ACID does not permit software input monitoring with anything other than ASIO drivers as this is the only way to get low latency software input monitoring.

Page 8 of the TUBE MPT User's Manual discusses all of this in detail and offers alternatives since they do not supply ASIO drivers - which would not work since this device is an input only audio interface.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 9:14:54 AM

Peter, thank you for your help. Clearly I'm a neophyte, and I appreciate your patience...

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 10:17:37 AM

would downloading an ASIO driver be of any help?

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/13/2009 10:27:53 AM

would downloading an ASIO driver be of any help?

From the ART manual on page 8, they suggest this might help.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 10:59:34 AM

Peter-

Yikes. Don't you love guys coming on the forum asking dopey questions that they wouldn't have to ask if they did something radical like READ THE BLEEPING MANUAL????

really, I appreciate your response (and your not smacking me upside the head) and will ask no more stupid questions.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: bnjenter

Date:5/13/2009 11:07:15 AM

Hey mcrave,
Go ahead and ask your questions. That's part of what this forum is for, BUT, also take the suggestion and search the manual. The best way to learn is when you learn things yourself by doing the research yourself.

No one wants you to stop participating. The forum is for you and I and all the others as well.

Bob

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/13/2009 8:23:19 PM

Bob-

thanks.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/14/2009 6:42:02 AM

No problem with asking questions.

I don't have the ART hardware, so I am doing nothing more that reviewing the User's Manual in hopes that it will assist you in solving your problems.

I cannot promise that I will be here to answer all your questions - these forums are considered peer to peer - but I will do what I can.

If you ever have problems that are critical, please consider using the normal support channels we offer.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/14/2009 8:36:34 AM

I appreciate that, Peter. I would, of course, prefer to solve my problems without paying for it, but that's probably what I'll end up doing.

I downloaded the ASIO driver, made sure that it's the one being used. I followed the instructions in the ART manual, namely running a USB connector to the computer and an analog line out to a mixer, and my headphone out from the computer likewise to the mixer. That is the line that is carrying no signal, and there's the rub.

My fear is that Music Studio just doesn't have the features I need, and that I'll need to upgrade to Acid Pro.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/14/2009 1:41:30 PM

I did not realize you are using ACID Music Studio.

AMS does not support software input monitoring. You will have to follow ART's description of using an external mixer or upgrade to ACID Pro 7.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/14/2009 6:17:47 PM

Too bad Sony doesn't make that clear. I spent 30 bucks on tech support today to find out that that was not 30 dollars well spent. What I need is not a "windows compatible card" but a card with an ASIO driver AND A LINE OUT. If i'd known that, I'd have had one installed in my notebook already.

I appreciate the encouraging words from those on this forum, and hope to be up and running as soon as i get a card and break out box.

But just for the record, look at how Sony advertises Music Studio, and i think you'll agree that it's disingenuous at least.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/14/2009 7:24:49 PM

Too bad Sony doesn't make that clear.

We are very direct in our product comparison page.

I don't know how much clearer it can be presented which versions of ACID provide what functionality.

Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying?

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/15/2009 6:43:42 AM

I guess rather than functionality what I meant was that the REQUIREMENTS aren't spelled out honestly. Sony says all you need is a windows compatible sound card, when clearly more is required, including hardware. If someone is using this software without using external hardware connections, I'd love to know how they are accomplishing that!

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/15/2009 8:50:04 AM

OK, I am assuming that an external sound card is what I need, since i can't install one in my computer. Can I likewise assume that if I get one from Creative Labs or M-Audio it will work?

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/15/2009 9:11:26 AM

You cannot monitor through software in AMS 7. You will need to monitor in hardware. Either through the sound devices internal monitoring or using an external mixer.

I don't know what you mean by you can't install one in your computer. If you have USB or Firewire, then you should be able to install/add an external full duplex audio device.

I would recommend that you look at the available devices you are considering. Most of the hardware vendors provide user manuals, discussion forums, or online tutorials.

I would recommend you start a new thread on these forums and ask how other users of AMS and ACID Pro are configured and what audio devices they recommend.

I personally don't make recommendations on specific audio devices. I will help you to determine whether a specific device can be used the way you want it though.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/18/2009 10:42:44 AM

I phrased that poorly; I meant to say that since i have no slot available for a sound card (and thus can't install one INTERNALLY), i'll use an external one. I have an M-Audio unit on its way, and i assume it will provide what I need.

Your first sentence is the one I wish was included in the literature for Acid: "You cannot monitor through software in AMS7."

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/18/2009 2:02:29 PM

I have an M-Audio unit on its way, and i assume it will provide what I need.

Which M-Audio device are you getting?

No offense, but it is never a good thing to assume anything. Did you contact M-Audio or discuss it on this or M-Audio's user forums to make sure it does what you desire?

Your first sentence is the one I wish was included in the literature for Acid: "You cannot monitor through software in AMS7."

It is not typical for such literature to describe what you cannot do, but to describe what the software can do. The comparison chart does indicate that "Record input monitoring" is not supported.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/18/2009 7:26:52 PM

So according to the comparison chart you cite, monitoring is simply not supported by Music Studio, period, no matter what hardware you use. This despite the fact that IN A CONVERSATION WITH SONY'S TECHNICAL SUPPORT, WHICH I BLEEPING HAD TO PAY FOR, I WAS ASSURED THAT I COULD MONITOR, IN ACID MUSIC STUDIO, WITH THE GEAR I HAVE ORDERED! (Hey, what do you expect for 30 bucks, good info?)

the good news is that I know for a fact that the hardware I ordered will work just fine with Cubase, which saves me from having to upgrade to Acid Pro...

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/19/2009 8:42:23 AM

You can monitor, as I described, with AMS using external hardware. However, this is not something we document or 'advertise' as it is external to ACID and there are numerous ways to achive hardware input monitoring.

The feature item "record input monitor' did not describe the functionality for you completely. I have communicated your complaints as to providing more detail in our literature to our marketing group.

I would like to clarify what was communicated by tech support.
What hardware/gear did they assure you would permit you to monitor your input?
Do you know who you spoke with at Tech support?

Regardless, tf you have any problems with your new hardware, please post here and I will do what I can to assist.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/19/2009 9:48:18 AM

"You can monitor, as I described, with AMS using external hardware. However, this is not something we document or 'advertise' as it is external to ACID and there are numerous ways to achive hardware input monitoring."

So instead of explaining HOW one can monitor in AMS, Sony choose to say that it can't be done. This is puzzling, to say the least.

I now own an M-Audio Fast Track Pro audio interface, which I was told would work with my software. I did not ask the young lady for her name. If anyone can give me definitive information as to whether I can use this in AMS or not, I would really appreciate it.

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/19/2009 2:49:57 PM

So instead of explaining HOW one can monitor in AMS, Sony choose to say that it can't be done. This is puzzling, to say the least.

I have informed our marketing group that you had problems with understanding our literature and the specifics of input monitoring as it relates to AMS. I have also forwarded your comments on to our documentation group so they can consider developing a generic - i.e. not hardware specific - walk through to help users work around this.

The Fast Track Pro should work fine with AMS. It has a full monitoring section that is clearly documented in their users guide and some marketing on their web site that specifically discusses its ability to monitor input in hardware.

I want to make you aware that this method of monitoring will not permit you to monitor through any VST or DX FXs you are using. It is a hardware to hardware monitoring.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/19/2009 6:08:37 PM

Peter-

Thank you very much for the info. I don't think my read of the literature or my reaction to its lack of clarity are unfounded. That said, I'm lazy, and could/should have done more homework.

pardon my ignorance, but does your last sentence simply mean that i'll monitor stuff "dry", or am I missing yet another point?

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/19/2009 8:17:08 PM

pardon my ignorance, but does your last sentence simply mean that i'll monitor stuff "dry", or am I missing yet another point?

Yes, you will be monitoring your input (recording) signal dry.

Peter

Subject:RE: recording vocals USB

Reply by: mcrave

Date:5/20/2009 7:06:08 AM

monitoring dry is no problem. Thanks for your help. I was convinced that I'd get the M-Audio unit and find that it wouldn't work after all.

Sorry for jumping ugly on the tech support person who told me, accurately, that it would work fine but when I revisited that comparison chart I thought it was LITERALLY true that monitoring was not possible. This endeavor has been somewhat problematic and I began fearing the worst.

Again, thanks.