Subject:I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Posted by: Tom B

Date:3/23/2009 7:27:09 AM

Hello, all. My first post here:

I've been "thrashing about" with the ACID Pro 7 trial download while waiting for my purchased software to arrive.

I want ot use *INPUT BUSSES* for applying virtual real-time effects to *live* incoming signals: for example, NoiseGate+Compressor to incoming vocals or bass.

Unfortunately, as soon as I add an INPUT BUSS to a very sparse mix (16 bars: 3 midi tracks + 3 audio [16bit 44.1]) things fall apart. Stuttering, then crash.

My SYSTEM SPECs are on my User Page, but for convenience:
- Pentium 4 @ 2.53 MHz
- 1 GB DDR PC2700 333MHz
- SoundBlaster Audigy LE with MME driver
(added ASIO4ALL and spec'd it in Acid Pro)
- SATA WD HD

QUESTION:
What hardware am I going to have to upgrade? I know my system is hardly state-of-the art, and the SoundBlaster is "questionable" (perhaps even funny) but budget is tight at present.

I can increase system ram to 2 GB.
I can buy an M-Audio 2496 PCI card, and might be able to swing an M-Audo 1010-LT if 2496 is not a good choice...

Thanks,
Tom

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: lofreequency

Date:3/23/2009 8:19:05 AM

Hope this advice has relevance...

One setting recommended to me by some kind folks here that pretty much stopped any system crashes was making sure your audio device latency setting is correct. Have you tried that?

Options>Preferences>Audio Device>Advanced>set latency to the a higher setting. (it may be at the lowest by default). Improved performance big time for me.

(Also I'm trying to remember that path by memory 'cause I'm not at my home computer, so if things aren't correct you should at least be in the area. :) )

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/23/2009 8:19:29 AM

I would recommend that you use the Creative Lab supplied ASIO drivers. While they are limited to the native hardware sample rate of 48 kHz, they should permit you to work at reasonable latency.

Also note that applying compression and even a noise gate in real-time this way is not the same thing as using a real compressor pre- A to D. Applying a compressor to a digital signal will not achieve the typically application of compression on an input source since it is post A to D.

Peter

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: Tom B

Date:3/23/2009 12:24:14 PM

lofreequency, you got the path EXACTLY RIGHT... from memory!

I'm not sure *which way* (+ or -) to adjust each parameter. Please advise, keeping in mind that I also need to *minimize latency* as much as possible in the process of stopping the crashes.


The ASIO4ALL v2.9 driver currently displays these settings:

ASIO Buffer Size = 512 Samples
(possible range: 64 to 2048 Samples)

LATENCY COMPENSATION:
In: 32 Samples
Out: 32 Samples
(possible range each: 0 to 1024 Samples)


OPTIONS:

Hardware Buffer
(unchecked/disabled)

Kernal Buffers: 2
(possible range: 2, 3 or 4)

Always Resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz
(checked/enabled)

Force WDM Driver to 16 Bit
(unchecked/disabled)

Thanks,
Tom

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: Tom B

Date:3/23/2009 12:30:37 PM

Peter ==

Thanks for the suggestion. I visited creative.com and ultimately determined my card to be an Audigy LS (LE), Model SB0312 per this URL: http://support.creative.com/kb/

Was not able to determine whether ASIO drivers actually exist for Win XP. Found a "software update" download totally 65MB. But don't want to load any extraneous apps. Just want a native ASIO driver, if one exists. I sent an e-nquiry to Creative TechSupp. Not sure how long it'll take to hear from them.

In the meantime, do you know where/how to get the ASIO driver, if it exists?

Thanks,
Tom

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:3/23/2009 1:05:39 PM

Rather than thrashing a rather inadequate horse, I think now would be a great time to think about a 'real' soundcard !

geoff

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:3/23/2009 2:56:40 PM

"Also note that applying compression and even a noise gate in real-time this way is not the same thing as using a real compressor pre- A to D. Applying a compressor to a digital signal will not achieve the typically application of compression on an input source since it is post A to D."

Peter's comment is a good one.

Why would you want to apply compression on an input buss? Why not just record it and apply compression later?

Typically, you would compress an input to keep the signal range from clipping. That's fine if you put a hardware compressor between your mic and your soundcard. However, once the signal has hit your soundcard and has been converted to digital, it's too late - it's already clipping.

Incidentally, what happens if you record your signal and then apply the noisegate and compressor at mixdown? Do you get crashes or latency problems?

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: kitekrazee

Date:3/23/2009 9:11:25 PM

An AP2495 would be a major improvement.
I know everyone is out to have the fastest system out there but the P4 is still a good processor.

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: lofreequency

Date:3/24/2009 8:15:31 AM

"ASIO Buffer Size = 512 Samples
(possible range: 64 to 2048 Samples)"

This is the max my system can achieve....512 (using a Tascam us1641 usb unit). Raising to that 512 setting from the low default (124?) stopped all the crashes...for me anyway. I was not trying to do what you are trying though. My computer is about the same as yours spec-wise. Can't hurt to try higher I suppose and see what it does? You can always change it back. (I'm far from an expert like many others are here though. lol ) Maybe others can chime in to whether this rec has any real merit. :)

Peter (SonyPCH) is Sony's guy and probably has the problem nailed I suspect. :)

Subject:RE: I smell HARDWARE UPGRADE...

Reply by: Tom B

Date:3/25/2009 12:04:53 PM

Thanks, guys.

Apparantly there are no native ASIO drivers for my card. Been "learning" based on tweaking the ASIO4ALL driver - in line with lofreequency's comments.

I agree with and appreciate Peter's comments. It seems the ADA8000 cannot insert compression before the AD converter, no matter what. Hmmmm....

Probably going to buy an E-MU 1212m card.

QUESTION:
Is there any way to set preferences so this forum will send INSTANT EMAIL NOTIFICATION of new activity on a thread?

Thanks,
Tom