Problem with Yamaha 4416S

bl0rp wrote on 6/14/1999, 10:34 PM
I've got a problem burning with CD Architect with a Yamaha
4416S. Specs are as follows:

* P2-400, 128MB RAM, Windows 98 or NT (neither work =P)
* Asus P2BS Motherboard, w/integrated Adaptec 7890 U2W SCSI
* Yamaha 4416 BIOS 1.0g
* Sound Forge 4.5 and CD Architect 4.0f

This problem was identified by someone else earlier (sorry,
I forgot the name), but was never addressed as far as I can
tell.

The drive identifies fine. In fact, everything looks and
appears to operate fine. The problem lies in the finished
product.

When I play the disc in my home stereo, a random number
(although usually tracks 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, and 13) of tracks
are inaccessable by skipping through the tracks. These
tracks ARE there and DO play correctly if you let the CD
play through. Strange? Yes. But what I find *really*
strange is that when you let it play through, the tracks
that you cant access by seeking start playing in NEGATIVE
time.

These discs will not work in my Sony CDX-710 10 disc
changer in my car; or at least not past track 2. Track 3
starts, goes for about 2 mins, then starts to skip and
stutter (rather annoyingly, I might add). You can hear the
mechanism spin up and spin down in an attempt to re-read
the disc. My Sony CDX-810DSP in-deck fares a little
better, however it still has problems with the 3rd track
and up.

CDA isnt complaining about any non-redbook errors or
anything, the disc appears to burn fine. I can take the 2
sec gaps out, blend/merge tracks, whatever.. it doesnt
matter how I burn it, it still comes out screwed.

The one thing I have noticed is that CDA gets about 20%
through writing the lead-in before the drive is actually
ready to burn (ie., its stopped seeking and whatnot). All
the other software I have waits for the drive to finish
seeking before it begins to write the lead-in.

Which means, although I'm ashamed to say it, but
Crapdaptech CD Creator works fine (well, as fine as CD
Creator goes anyways).

As I produce my own stuff, I do need the control that CDA
gives me over the project. The thought of having to make
one giant wav file and then burning one huge continuous
track in CD Creator does not appeal to me.

Comments? Suggestions? RTFM's? Anything!??! After what
I've paid for this thing, it really *would* be nice for it
to work right =) Even if it does mean a slap in the face
and a few ha ha's at my expense.

Ken.

Comments

rlhyman wrote on 6/16/1999, 11:13 PM
I just purchased a Smart and Friendly Speed Racer which uses the Yamaha 4416S mechanism -
it just has the S&F name on it. I am experiencing similar problems though not as extreme. I
am trying to burn a glass master for replication and have burned it twice. Both times at 4X
speed. The problem only arrises on track 3 - plays along fine until track 3 then the time
readout reads negative and starts counting negative throughout track 3. It will also skip around
within track 3 and sometimes does random skipping if you play the disc in random mode on the
cd deck. I am going to try burning at a slower speed to see if that works. I am also running all
my tracks with no empty space inbetween each track. I might try to put a second of dead space
before track 3 to see if that makes a difference. Let me know what you find if anything.

Robert Hyman

Ken March wrote:
>>I've got a problem burning with CD Architect with a Yamaha
>>4416S. Specs are as follows:
>>
>>* P2-400, 128MB RAM, Windows 98 or NT (neither work =P)
>>* Asus P2BS Motherboard, w/integrated Adaptec 7890 U2W SCSI
>>* Yamaha 4416 BIOS 1.0g
>>* Sound Forge 4.5 and CD Architect 4.0f
>>
>>This problem was identified by someone else earlier (sorry,
>>I forgot the name), but was never addressed as far as I can
>>tell.
>>
>>The drive identifies fine. In fact, everything looks and
>>appears to operate fine. The problem lies in the finished
>>product.
>>
>>When I play the disc in my home stereo, a random number
>>(although usually tracks 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, and 13) of tracks
>>are inaccessable by skipping through the tracks. These
>>tracks ARE there and DO play correctly if you let the CD
>>play through. Strange? Yes. But what I find *really*
>>strange is that when you let it play through, the tracks
>>that you cant access by seeking start playing in NEGATIVE
>>time.
>>
>>These discs will not work in my Sony CDX-710 10 disc
>>changer in my car; or at least not past track 2. Track 3
>>starts, goes for about 2 mins, then starts to skip and
>>stutter (rather annoyingly, I might add). You can hear the
>>mechanism spin up and spin down in an attempt to re-read
>>the disc. My Sony CDX-810DSP in-deck fares a little
>>better, however it still has problems with the 3rd track
>>and up.
>>
>>CDA isnt complaining about any non-redbook errors or
>>anything, the disc appears to burn fine. I can take the 2
>>sec gaps out, blend/merge tracks, whatever.. it doesnt
>>matter how I burn it, it still comes out screwed.
>>
>>The one thing I have noticed is that CDA gets about 20%
>>through writing the lead-in before the drive is actually
>>ready to burn (ie., its stopped seeking and whatnot). All
>>the other software I have waits for the drive to finish
>>seeking before it begins to write the lead-in.
>>
>>Which means, although I'm ashamed to say it, but
>>Crapdaptech CD Creator works fine (well, as fine as CD
>>Creator goes anyways).
>>
>>As I produce my own stuff, I do need the control that CDA
>>gives me over the project. The thought of having to make
>>one giant wav file and then burning one huge continuous
>>track in CD Creator does not appeal to me.
>>
>>Comments? Suggestions? RTFM's? Anything!??! After what
>>I've paid for this thing, it really *would* be nice for it
>>to work right =) Even if it does mean a slap in the face
>>and a few ha ha's at my expense.
>>
>>Ken.
>>
rlhyman wrote on 6/20/1999, 8:32 AM
The problem I was having with the SpeedRacer has been fixed - I found a workaround. My
problem was I was burning 12 tracks for a CD master. Track 2 and 3 were butted up next to
eachother with no "dead" space inbetween. I had other tracks doing the same thing but only
had problems with track 3. I burned this CD this way 3 different times all with the same effect -
track 3 would play but would start counting from -0.00 until the end of the track. My solution
was to move the index point up very little but enough so that it was not placed exactly on the
beginnin of track 3. I also moved track 3 back a little so as to allow for this "dead" space. I
then burned it and it seems to work fine. You don't notice that I moved track 3 either.

Ken March wrote:
>>I've got a problem burning with CD Architect with a Yamaha
>>4416S. Specs are as follows:
>>
>>* P2-400, 128MB RAM, Windows 98 or NT (neither work =P)
>>* Asus P2BS Motherboard, w/integrated Adaptec 7890 U2W SCSI
>>* Yamaha 4416 BIOS 1.0g
>>* Sound Forge 4.5 and CD Architect 4.0f
>>
>>This problem was identified by someone else earlier (sorry,
>>I forgot the name), but was never addressed as far as I can
>>tell.
>>
>>The drive identifies fine. In fact, everything looks and
>>appears to operate fine. The problem lies in the finished
>>product.
>>
>>When I play the disc in my home stereo, a random number
>>(although usually tracks 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, and 13) of tracks
>>are inaccessable by skipping through the tracks. These
>>tracks ARE there and DO play correctly if you let the CD
>>play through. Strange? Yes. But what I find *really*
>>strange is that when you let it play through, the tracks
>>that you cant access by seeking start playing in NEGATIVE
>>time.
>>
>>These discs will not work in my Sony CDX-710 10 disc
>>changer in my car; or at least not past track 2. Track 3
>>starts, goes for about 2 mins, then starts to skip and
>>stutter (rather annoyingly, I might add). You can hear the
>>mechanism spin up and spin down in an attempt to re-read
>>the disc. My Sony CDX-810DSP in-deck fares a little
>>better, however it still has problems with the 3rd track
>>and up.
>>
>>CDA isnt complaining about any non-redbook errors or
>>anything, the disc appears to burn fine. I can take the 2
>>sec gaps out, blend/merge tracks, whatever.. it doesnt
>>matter how I burn it, it still comes out screwed.
>>
>>The one thing I have noticed is that CDA gets about 20%
>>through writing the lead-in before the drive is actually
>>ready to burn (ie., its stopped seeking and whatnot). All
>>the other software I have waits for the drive to finish
>>seeking before it begins to write the lead-in.
>>
>>Which means, although I'm ashamed to say it, but
>>Crapdaptech CD Creator works fine (well, as fine as CD
>>Creator goes anyways).
>>
>>As I produce my own stuff, I do need the control that CDA
>>gives me over the project. The thought of having to make
>>one giant wav file and then burning one huge continuous
>>track in CD Creator does not appeal to me.
>>
>>Comments? Suggestions? RTFM's? Anything!??! After what
>>I've paid for this thing, it really *would* be nice for it
>>to work right =) Even if it does mean a slap in the face
>>and a few ha ha's at my expense.
>>
>>Ken.
>>
AlBogdan wrote on 7/7/1999, 3:18 PM

>>I've got a problem burning with CD Architect with a Yamaha
>>4416S. Specs are as follows:
>>

You may also want to upgrade the firmware in the 4416S using the free download from Yamaha's web site. I was having some
problems with the 4416S vanishing from NT after loading service patchs. Updating the firmware fixed this. (This may not fix the
particular issue posted, but it may help avoid future ones.)

- Al
Vid_Nut wrote on 6/16/2000, 10:59 AM
I recently went through the very same problem...I tried everything,
updating ASPI layers, CDR firmware, etc. However, none of those
things correct the problem. Here is the REAL problem:

CDA sometimes rounds track times up or down in the PQ list by 1/100 of
a sec. The Yamaha CDRs don't like this and the end result is a CD
that burns fine, but some tracks can't be directly accessed. What you
need to do is arrange your CD layout, but before burning the disc,
zoom all the way in on the track view and use the CTRL+arrow keys to
jump from track to track to verify that the end of one track is at the
same point as the beginning of the next (this is assuming of course
you have no gap between tracks) otherwise, you can check them in the
PQ list. Look for the end time of the first track and the beginning
time of the next. Be sure they aren't 1/100 of a sec off. If you use
the default 2 sec gap, be sure the tracks are exactly 2 sec apart (not
2 & 1/100 sec).

If you saved any layouts of CDs that had problems, go back and look
through the PQ list and you'll find the "rounding problem" I speak of
at the beginning of any bad track. If you fix these "roundings" and
reburn the disc, it will work fine.

Scott.



Al Bogdan wrote:
>>
>>>>I've got a problem burning with CD Architect with a Yamaha
>>>>4416S. Specs are as follows:
>>>>
>>
>>You may also want to upgrade the firmware in the 4416S using the
free download from Yamaha's web site. I was having some
>>problems with the 4416S vanishing from NT after loading service
patchs. Updating the firmware fixed this. (This may not fix the
>>particular issue posted, but it may help avoid future ones.)
>>
>>- Al