Using Vegas with AVCHD

arem wrote on 1/7/2009, 9:44 AM
The UPS guy just delivered my new camera: The Canon Vixia HG20. From what I've seen in just the little I've played around with it, it looks pretty cool. I have some questions now about how to use Vegas with it.

Now, I'm a Mac user that switched over from Windows a few years ago, but I brought Vegas and Windows XP along for the ride because I didn't want to switch editing programs. I see in Vegas that there's an import AVCHD option. I tried using it, and the file it imported didn't look like any better quality than DV. The colors looked washed out while on the camera screen they're rich and vibrant. Any ideas?

I also noticed that editing with the AVCHD files caused the preview to be a little choppy (not that it surprises me since its HD footage). Is there anyway to use like a low-res copy of the video to edit and then render the final version out in HD?

Finally - what would you guys recommend as being the final output format for presentation? I've been using mp4 (H.264) since its pretty good quality and the file size is small enough to easily move the file from computer to computer. Its also compatible on both Windows and Mac.

Okay - that's all! Thank you!
-Dan

Comments

JohnnyRoy wrote on 1/7/2009, 11:11 AM
> I see in Vegas that there's an import AVCHD option. I tried using it, and the file it imported didn't look like any better quality than DV. The colors looked washed out while on the camera screen they're rich and vibrant. Any ideas?

Import AVCHD is just a file copy. The exact file that is on your camera is just copied to your hard disk. This means it's a display problem. You are comparing the tiny LCD on your camera with a big PC display so it could be several things. Small displays always look better. You can increase the brightness, contrast, gama, color temp, etc. on your PC display to match your camera. Have you calibrated you PC display lately? Is the camera display acurate? It may have it's colors and contrast boosted. I would plug the camera directly into your HD TV and see what the footage really looks like. Also make sure you are viewing the footage in Vegas on Good (Full) before you judge the quality.

> I also noticed that editing with the AVCHD files caused the preview to be a little choppy (not that it surprises me since its HD footage). Is there anyway to use like a low-res copy of the video to edit and then render the final version out in HD?

VASST GearShift was created especially to provide this capability. Vegas does not do proxy editing natively except for XDCAM HD.

> Finally - what would you guys recommend as being the final output format for presentation? I've been using mp4 (H.264) since its pretty good quality and the file size is small enough to easily move the file from computer to computer. Its also compatible on both Windows and Mac.

What is your target? I would be outputting to Blu-ray AVCHD to maintain full quality.

~jr
David Newman wrote on 1/7/2009, 12:59 PM
You could alway consider using CineForm Neo Scene to batch convert your AVCHD into AVIs for than easier post workflow. Plug out of the way.

The "colors looked washed" out is a Vegas feature, it displays your video using Studio RGB which set the RGB black level to 16 (and white at 235) when you are used to seeing at 0 (and white at 255.) This hugely impact the preview. To compensate, and to you preview window the default filter "Studio RGB to Computer RGB" (under Color Corrector.) Now everything will look correct, while still giving you the full dynamic range of Studio RGB on the timeline. Do not use "Studio RGB to Computer RGB" on the timeline directly as that will alter your rendered outputs.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm
arem wrote on 1/7/2009, 5:20 PM
@Johnny:
I looked at GearShift and it seems like a pretty good solution for using proxy files to edit with. I do wonder, however, if I could cheat and make my own proxy files. Do you think it would be possible to render the HD footage down to just DV and make my edits, and then in the Project Media dialog replace the DV files with the HD ones and then render? I don't know how the replace function works in Vegas...

@Dave:
Thanks for the tip about the Vegas preview window - I had no idea that Vegas did this. I don't care if the preview looks funky as long as the final output looks good!
Infinite5ths wrote on 1/7/2009, 9:02 PM
@ _dan_:

David, unless I have misunderstood you, your "Studio RGB to Computer RGB" tip is slightly incorrect. If you add Video FX using the "Video Output FX" button in the Vegas Preview window, they DO alter the rendered output.

There is an option under "Preview Device Preferences..." (right-click the Preview video screen for a context menu with this item) titled "Use Studio RGB (16 to 235)". I think this is perhaps what you meant. Note that you have select the "Use color management" option to get access to the "Use Studio RGB..." checkbox.
--
Mike
JohnnyRoy wrote on 1/8/2009, 12:06 PM
> Do you think it would be possible to render the HD footage down to just DV and make my edits, and then in the Project Media dialog replace the DV files with the HD ones and then render?

You can absolutely do this. That is all that GearShift is automating for you. It does the render and then makes it easy to switch back and forth.

> I don't know how the replace function works in Vegas...

It works one file at a time. This is why having a tool to automate it is important unless you only have a few files to swap.

Dave's idea of using CineForm is a good one also if your PC can edit these easily. The advantage is that you don't need a proxy. CineForm can be used in the final render. Also VASST has a tool called AVCHD UpShift that will convert AVCHD to HDV if you find editing HDV is easier on your PC. There are lots of options including rendering the proxies yourself.

~jr
David Newman wrote on 1/8/2009, 2:13 PM
Mike, you are correct, I forgot the "Video Output FX" is not for display only. However the Studio RGB control does not fix the preview in the desktop, so using the "Video Output FX" with Studio RGB to CG RGB might be the best workflow as long as you remember to remove it on export. The way Vegas uses Studio RGB for preview I always though was wrong, causes many tech support issues.

David
Infinite5ths wrote on 1/8/2009, 2:25 PM
OK, thanks for the thorough info David!
--
Mike
arem wrote on 1/10/2009, 4:28 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Mike and David.

Also thanks jr for the suggestions. For the time being, I'll probably just make my own proxies. As a student, I try to keep solutions as cheap as possible. :-)