Maybe so George. I like the Einstein thing (quote?), but those
mixes are a lot better thanks to the MEANS, and that is the AIM
isn't it?




George Krzyzewski wrote:
>>Hi Dick,
>>
>>I was one of the folks responding to the idea that one program
should
>>do it all, top notch midi and top notch DAW. My point was, it
ain't
>>necessarily so. Utilizing a separate sequencer program and
separate
>>DAW allows me to choose the best interface for both (in my
opinion).
>>As far as midi timing and machine control functions, hey,
that's the
>>way you do things! that's cool. I guess rendering to audio and
then
>>adding to a mix is something you don't like to do, because
changing
>>the mix later requires you to re-render the midi-sequence,
right?
>>Sounds like it's your way or the highway. IMHO too much time
is
>>spent automating, and not enough time is spent generating.
>>Einstein's prediction of the future "Perfection of means and
loss of
>>aims". Hmmmm.....................
>>
>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>I don't know if earlier comments about Vegas not
>>>>needing sequencing, where from an "engineer's"
>>>>prespective, but from a musician's prespective it's
>>>>NUTTS!
>>

Hi Dick,

Well, I guess I could always use a little improvement in my "means".
Good Luck
George

Again we have done full projects using only loops edited and our work
has been much better than when we used midi consistently.
This is from an engineer and a musicians point of view.Try getting us
guys sometime.Yes we are crazy and wacky sometimes.This is what makes
music fun.It is really alot more fun, than being totally dependant on
midi.
Come on.Get in the LOOP.;-)

George Krzyzewski wrote:
>>
>>Hi Dick,
>>
>>Well, I guess I could always use a little improvement in my "means".
>>Good Luck
>>George

Hey all you film score composers, David says you just need
some loops and Vegas. "Get with it man, nobody plays their own
shit anymore, just cut & paste baby!"


Everybody knows midi sucks. I play guitar, and only sequence
keyboards / samplers when I have to, which is more often than
not. Loops have their place and I use them often, but they can't
and won't replace sequencing. This brings me to two
conclusions:

1. Sonic Foundry made a mistake omitting a sequencer from
Vegas.

and

2. You're a real dumbass.

Hey Dick, I have to say as a professional engineer and musician, that
you are way off base. You have to learn about Smpte Time code and
Midi beat clock and how to sync equipment together. I have worked in
a few professional studios and currently am a studio owner, and also
an instructor in the recording field, and this is the way things are
done. For Audio, whatever your main recording device is (ie vegas,
DA-88, Adat, 2 inch, Protools, VS-880), you have that generate
Midi/Smpte Time Code. This Smpte Time code is fed to your midi
sequencing program. In your sequencing program it will allow you to
enter a "smpte offset time" This smpte offset time is the exact time
that your song starts in Vegas, so when you hit play in Vegas the
sequencer actually reads the position that Vegas is at and starts
playback when ever Vegas hits the smpte offset time. What this means
is that the midi sequencing program chases, wherever Vegas is and and
thus they play together in sync with each other 9ie audio and midi).
This is also how you can sync a movie and score it with music (ie
send Midi/smpte timecode from your master Video machine and your
sequencer chases the tape. How do you think this work was done,
before hard disk/midi sequencing combo programs where around? Smpte
is a industry standard timecode format. Many movies have been scored
using DA-88,Adats, 2inch tape and a midi sequencer....and there is no
midi tracks on a DA-88 or Adat or 2 inch. Loops where sampled into a
sampler and then triggered using your midi sequencer program. So I
would suggest to you, being a musician, that you should learn about
some professional engineering techniques, before you start calling
other users "dumbasses" and looking for "film scoring composers" to
back you up on this subject, because I'm betting right now you're
looking like the "dumbass" in their eyes. This forum is here so
users can help each other on these kinds of techniques and working
out problems they're encountering. Learn to have an open mind and
read how other professionals are working and you will go much further
with your musical career.

I hope this information helps,
Brian Franz

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>Hey all you film score composers, David says you just need
>>some loops and Vegas. "Get with it man, nobody plays their own
>>shit anymore, just cut & paste baby!"
>>
>>
>>Everybody knows midi sucks. I play guitar, and only sequence
>>keyboards / samplers when I have to, which is more often than
>>not. Loops have their place and I use them often, but they can't
>>and won't replace sequencing. This brings me to two
>>conclusions:
>>
>>1. Sonic Foundry made a mistake omitting a sequencer from
>>Vegas.
>>
>>and
>>
>>2. You're a real dumbass.

Hey Dick,

Are you calling David a dumbass cause he doesn't do his work the way
you do? Well I guess I'm a dumbass too, if that's your reason, cause
I obviously don't do my work the way you do either. Give me a break,
there's more then one way to skin a cat, that's why we're here.
Gotta second Brian on the reason this forum exists. We're all
learning from each other, and nothing's in cement. Guys like
Charles, Aaron, Brian, and David have given me the scoop on lotsa
stuff that I just wasn't doing. After reading their posts I tried
some new ways of doing things and was amazed and how much I didn't
know. Using loops and syncing sequencer and DAW programs is
something that's done by many (including myself). It saves me
bunches of time and allows my little studio to make a few bucks while
makinmg clients happy. If you think your use of midi is required for
the type of projects you do, great! However the next gig coming down
the line may require something different.

George
Proud Member of the "I like Acid with Vegas Organization"

I believe many users, will support this way of working, because
most people who work efficiently, work this way. I use to work in
the MAC environment, Where Studio Vision was the sequencer of choice,
and Protools was the audio king. Although Vision has audio features,
it didn't work as well as Protools, and Protools had midi features,
but it didn't compare to Studio Vision. So most users had one
computer with Protools installed for audio and another with Vision
for midi sequencing. I'm a PC guy, so now I'm basically working the
same way using Vegas and Vision (PC version)....this way of working
you could even have 1 computer that's a MAC and the other is a PC,
and they would still work together. The options are limitless
working this way and you get to work with the software that works
best for you on whatever format you choose. Sonic Foundry didn't
overlook anything when developing Vegas as far as midi goes. Vegas
has a "Sync" page under the "preferences" menu item. I guess he just
doesn't know how to use these features. Acid has the samething. I
use Acid where I load in my loops and then send a Midi beat clock to
my other PC with Vision, Whenever I hit play from Acid, my sequencer
follows right along, and also goes to the same tempo that I choose in
Acid....and the best part is, I have plenty of monitor space,
because both programs are on seperate PC's. I would hate having midi
Tracks taking up my monitor space when I'm trying to edit audio and
vice-versa when I'm trying to record and edit midi tracks. I guess
I'm a "dumbass" too, but somehow with my way of working I'm still
able to accomplish everything that he originally had a problem doing,
and when someone comes into my studio with an ASR-10, or a VS-880, or
MPC-2000, Beta SP, or Joe Smoe multitrack recording device, or Joe
Smoe sequencing device of the future, I'm able to get all these
devices to work with my studio setup, because I understand how to use
Midi Time Code and Midi Beat Clock.

George Krzyzewski wrote:
>>
>>
>>Hey Dick,
>>
>>Are you calling David a dumbass cause he doesn't do his work the
way
>>you do? Well I guess I'm a dumbass too, if that's your reason,
cause
>>I obviously don't do my work the way you do either. Give me a
break,
>>there's more then one way to skin a cat, that's why we're here.
>>Gotta second Brian on the reason this forum exists. We're all
>>learning from each other, and nothing's in cement. Guys like
>>Charles, Aaron, Brian, and David have given me the scoop on lotsa
>>stuff that I just wasn't doing. After reading their posts I tried
>>some new ways of doing things and was amazed and how much I didn't
>>know. Using loops and syncing sequencer and DAW programs is
>>something that's done by many (including myself). It saves me
>>bunches of time and allows my little studio to make a few bucks
while
>>makinmg clients happy. If you think your use of midi is required
for
>>the type of projects you do, great! However the next gig coming
down
>>the line may require something different.
>>
>>George
>>Proud Member of the "I like Acid with Vegas Organization"

Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?

Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last 15 years I've
been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros, and Todd-AO
Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with sync every
fucking day.

My comments don't presuppose a single way of working, but
instead, address the advantages of working in a integrated
environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign, emagic, Mark of
the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish companies,
and tell them they're wasting their time putting sequencers in
their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like him) don't
want that, and that's what SMPTE and extra computers are for".

Thank goodness Sonic Foundry is bucking the trend and giving
us all what we really want, no wonder all the pros are using
Vegas (heh heh).


P.S. David, sorry about the "dumbass" comment, it was a little
harsh. I should have figured, when I posted my (non-combative)
criticism of Vegas, that I'd get responses like "Shut up and use a
loop".

It's funny, your argument is that you list the advantages of
working in a Midi/audio environment in the same audio software and
yet I haven't seen any. So instead of spouting off, why don't you
make your point, so that me and the others who are not identifying
with your point can see the advantages. I listed my advantages of
having it on 2 seperate systems....now I'm listening to your counter
point and not hearing a damn thing that makes since. So what's the
advantages Dick? Saving money....is the only one I can think of, but
you didn't make that point yet. I thought I was offering useful
information, as an alternative for you having problems with Vegas not
having midi features. Obviously you don't need the help, and seem to
know it all, so then why are you here? This is a user forum, for
users to help one another. Like you said, Digi,Emagic,Cubase and all
those other fine software companies have implemented midi features,
so why don't you purchase one of their software packages instead of
coming here to cry that Vegas doesn't have it. It seems like someone
who's been doing audio engineering for 15 years would be smart enough
to purchase a tool that works the way that they do, instead of
purchasing a tool and then crying on their forum to make it do what
they want it to. You know when I was building a desk in my studio, I
used a hammer to drive nails in...I didn't call Stanley Crying,
telling them that their screwdriver needs a heavy weight on it, so I
can drive nails with it.

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?
>>
>>Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last 15 years I've
>>been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros, and Todd-AO
>>Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with sync every
>>fucking day.
>>
>>My comments don't presuppose a single way of working, but
>>instead, address the advantages of working in a integrated
>>environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign, emagic, Mark of
>>the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish companies,
>>and tell them they're wasting their time putting sequencers in
>>their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like him) don't
>>want that, and that's what SMPTE and extra computers are for".
>>
>>Thank goodness Sonic Foundry is bucking the trend and giving
>>us all what we really want, no wonder all the pros are using
>>Vegas (heh heh).
>>
>>
>>P.S. David, sorry about the "dumbass" comment, it was a little
>>harsh. I should have figured, when I posted my (non-combative)
>>criticism of Vegas, that I'd get responses like "Shut up and use a
>>loop".
>>
>>
>>
>>

You guys didn't read Dick's original post. It was mainly about effects automation via MIDI.
I am not sure if you CAN automates DX plugins in Vegas with MIDI. And if you really need to have
MIDI sequencing within Vegas. Maybe you can just listen to a MIDI port and patch that to the effects
for automation.

So, Dick's comment was valid about missing the MIDI capability. And if you could have a minimal
MIDI sequencing, it would be sure helpful.


Brian Franz wrote:
>> It's funny, your argument is that you list the advantages of
>>working in a Midi/audio environment in the same audio software and
>>yet I haven't seen any. So instead of spouting off, why don't you
>>make your point, so that me and the others who are not identifying
>>with your point can see the advantages. I listed my advantages of
>>having it on 2 seperate systems....now I'm listening to your counter
>>point and not hearing a damn thing that makes since. So what's the
>>advantages Dick? Saving money....is the only one I can think of, but
>>you didn't make that point yet. I thought I was offering useful
>>information, as an alternative for you having problems with Vegas not
>>having midi features. Obviously you don't need the help, and seem to
>>know it all, so then why are you here? This is a user forum, for
>>users to help one another. Like you said, Digi,Emagic,Cubase and all
>>those other fine software companies have implemented midi features,
>>so why don't you purchase one of their software packages instead of
>>coming here to cry that Vegas doesn't have it. It seems like someone
>>who's been doing audio engineering for 15 years would be smart enough
>>to purchase a tool that works the way that they do, instead of
>>purchasing a tool and then crying on their forum to make it do what
>>they want it to. You know when I was building a desk in my studio, I
>>used a hammer to drive nails in...I didn't call Stanley Crying,
>>telling them that their screwdriver needs a heavy weight on it, so I
>>can drive nails with it.
>>
>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?
>>>>
>>>>Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last 15 years I've
>>>>been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros, and Todd-AO
>>>>Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with sync every
>>>>fucking day.
>>>>
>>>>My comments don't presuppose a single way of working, but
>>>>instead, address the advantages of working in a integrated
>>>>environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign, emagic, Mark of
>>>>the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish companies,
>>>>and tell them they're wasting their time putting sequencers in
>>>>their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like him) don't
>>>>want that, and that's what SMPTE and extra computers are for".
>>>>
>>>>Thank goodness Sonic Foundry is bucking the trend and giving
>>>>us all what we really want, no wonder all the pros are using
>>>>Vegas (heh heh).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>P.S. David, sorry about the "dumbass" comment, it was a little
>>>>harsh. I should have figured, when I posted my (non-combative)
>>>>criticism of Vegas, that I'd get responses like "Shut up and use a
>>>>loop".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

He probably read it, I just don't think he got it. Too busy telling me
what an idiot I am, I suppose.



Shakil Ahmed wrote:
>>You guys didn't read Dick's original post. It was mainly about
effects automation via MIDI.
>>I am not sure if you CAN automates DX plugins in Vegas with
MIDI. And if you really need to have
>>MIDI sequencing within Vegas. Maybe you can just listen to a
MIDI port and patch that to the effects
>>for automation.
>>
>>So, Dick's comment was valid about missing the MIDI
capability. And if you could have a minimal
>>MIDI sequencing, it would be sure helpful.
>>
>>
>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>> It's funny, your argument is that you list the advantages of
>>>>working in a Midi/audio environment in the same audio
software and
>>>>yet I haven't seen any. So instead of spouting off, why don't
you
>>>>make your point, so that me and the others who are not
identifying
>>>>with your point can see the advantages. I listed my
advantages of
>>>>having it on 2 seperate systems....now I'm listening to your
counter
>>>>point and not hearing a damn thing that makes since. So
what's the
>>>>advantages Dick? Saving money....is the only one I can
think of, but
>>>>you didn't make that point yet. I thought I was offering useful
>>>>information, as an alternative for you having problems with
Vegas not
>>>>having midi features. Obviously you don't need the help,
and seem to
>>>>know it all, so then why are you here? This is a user forum,
for
>>>>users to help one another. Like you said,
Digi,Emagic,Cubase and all
>>>>those other fine software companies have implemented
midi features,
>>>>so why don't you purchase one of their software packages
instead of
>>>>coming here to cry that Vegas doesn't have it. It seems like
someone
>>>>who's been doing audio engineering for 15 years would be
smart enough
>>>>to purchase a tool that works the way that they do, instead
of
>>>>purchasing a tool and then crying on their forum to make it
do what
>>>>they want it to. You know when I was building a desk in my
studio, I
>>>>used a hammer to drive nails in...I didn't call Stanley Crying,
>>>>telling them that their screwdriver needs a heavy weight on
it, so I
>>>>can drive nails with it.
>>>>
>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last 15
years I've
>>>>>>been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros, and
Todd-AO
>>>>>>Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with sync
every
>>>>>>fucking day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My comments don't presuppose a single way of working,
but
>>>>>>instead, address the advantages of working in a
integrated
>>>>>>environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign, emagic,
Mark of
>>>>>>the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish
companies,
>>>>>>and tell them they're wasting their time putting
sequencers in
>>>>>>their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like him)
don't
>>>>>>want that, and that's what SMPTE and extra computers
are for".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank goodness Sonic Foundry is bucking the trend and
giving
>>>>>>us all what we really want, no wonder all the pros are
using
>>>>>>Vegas (heh heh).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>P.S. David, sorry about the "dumbass" comment, it was
a little
>>>>>>harsh. I should have figured, when I posted my
(non-combative)
>>>>>>criticism of Vegas, that I'd get responses like "Shut up
and use a
>>>>>>loop".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

Yes, I did read it, and if you read further to my post, I made the
point that I was able to do everything he was complaining that he
couldn't do, by using an external sequencer with Vegas. So what's
the benefits again? I only see downsides having audio and midi in
the same program. Which are, the midi features in a good audio
program have never been as good as a dedicated sequencing program,
Midi tracks clutter your monitor when you're trying to edit audio and
Vice Versa. Adding midi will eat more valuable computer resources,
and most combo programs in the past have always had timing issues
between midi and audio tracks. I just don't understand why you guys
are whining about midi tracks in Vegas. SF has never said Vegas was
able to sequence, so if this is a problem for you, then buy a program
that does have these features. Protools, Logic Audio, Cubase, Digital
Performer, Cakewalk. How long was Protools an audio program, before
it had midi tracks? A lot longer than Vegas has been around. Right
now I think I have the best of both worlds, I'm working with my
favorite sequencing software (studio Vision) and my favorite audio
editor (Vegas) and they work rock solid together. SO WHAT ARE THE
BENEFITS OF HAVING MIDI TRACKS IMPLEMENTED IN THE SAME PROGRAM OVER
HAVING 2 SEPERATE PROGRAMS TACKLING EACH TASK???? I'm asking loud
and clear, I am an open minded engineer and am always open to working
more effeciently if someone can enlighten me. That's what I was
originally trying to do for you, but you rather pout like a
baby....."wahhhhh...I need midi tracks in Vegas"
why?..."wahhhh...because I have to have it"

peace!!!

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>He probably read it, I just don't think he got it. Too busy telling
me
>>what an idiot I am, I suppose.
>>
>>
>>
>>Shakil Ahmed wrote:
>>>>You guys didn't read Dick's original post. It was mainly about
>>effects automation via MIDI.
>>>>I am not sure if you CAN automates DX plugins in Vegas with
>>MIDI. And if you really need to have
>>>>MIDI sequencing within Vegas. Maybe you can just listen to a
>>MIDI port and patch that to the effects
>>>>for automation.
>>>>
>>>>So, Dick's comment was valid about missing the MIDI
>>capability. And if you could have a minimal
>>>>MIDI sequencing, it would be sure helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>>>> It's funny, your argument is that you list the advantages of
>>>>>>working in a Midi/audio environment in the same audio
>>software and
>>>>>>yet I haven't seen any. So instead of spouting off, why don't
>>you
>>>>>>make your point, so that me and the others who are not
>>identifying
>>>>>>with your point can see the advantages. I listed my
>>advantages of
>>>>>>having it on 2 seperate systems....now I'm listening to your
>>counter
>>>>>>point and not hearing a damn thing that makes since. So
>>what's the
>>>>>>advantages Dick? Saving money....is the only one I can
>>think of, but
>>>>>>you didn't make that point yet. I thought I was offering useful
>>>>>>information, as an alternative for you having problems with
>>Vegas not
>>>>>>having midi features. Obviously you don't need the help,
>>and seem to
>>>>>>know it all, so then why are you here? This is a user forum,
>>for
>>>>>>users to help one another. Like you said,
>>Digi,Emagic,Cubase and all
>>>>>>those other fine software companies have implemented
>>midi features,
>>>>>>so why don't you purchase one of their software packages
>>instead of
>>>>>>coming here to cry that Vegas doesn't have it. It seems like
>>someone
>>>>>>who's been doing audio engineering for 15 years would be
>>smart enough
>>>>>>to purchase a tool that works the way that they do, instead
>>of
>>>>>>purchasing a tool and then crying on their forum to make it
>>do what
>>>>>>they want it to. You know when I was building a desk in my
>>studio, I
>>>>>>used a hammer to drive nails in...I didn't call Stanley Crying,
>>>>>>telling them that their screwdriver needs a heavy weight on
>>it, so I
>>>>>>can drive nails with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>>>Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last 15
>>years I've
>>>>>>>>been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros, and
>>Todd-AO
>>>>>>>>Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with sync
>>every
>>>>>>>>fucking day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My comments don't presuppose a single way of working,
>>but
>>>>>>>>instead, address the advantages of working in a
>>integrated
>>>>>>>>environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign, emagic,
>>Mark of
>>>>>>>>the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish
>>companies,
>>>>>>>>and tell them they're wasting their time putting
>>sequencers in
>>>>>>>>their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like him)
>>don't
>>>>>>>>want that, and that's what SMPTE and extra computers
>>are for".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thank goodness Sonic Foundry is bucking the trend and
>>giving
>>>>>>>>us all what we really want, no wonder all the pros are
>>using
>>>>>>>>Vegas (heh heh).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>P.S. David, sorry about the "dumbass" comment, it was
>>a little
>>>>>>>>harsh. I should have figured, when I posted my
>>(non-combative)
>>>>>>>>criticism of Vegas, that I'd get responses like "Shut up
>>and use a
>>>>>>>>loop".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

Wow!
I had a feeling so I went back and checked, YOU'RE THE SAME
RANTING KOOK I HASSLED WITH LAST TIME I POSTED HERE!
I also noticed, your comments appear in practically every post in
this forum. Amazing how the people with the least to offer, have
the most to say.


Listen man, I'll make one last effort. Unlike you, I never said your
way of working was wrong. If you want to use 10 computers all
running different programs, that's cool. If you want to use a
sequencing program that's no longer supported (because the
company went out of business), more power to ya.

I DON’T.

Among the many reasons I prefer a single platform (and I’m not
alone) are,

Edit Coherency - if I need to conform my session for something
like a picture change, it’s a lot easier to do when both my midi
and audio tracks are aligned on the same screen to the same
timeline and/or grid, using uniform tools. Doing that in two
different environments is obviously going to be a lot slower, less
accurate, and give you carpal tunnel syndrome.

In-Program Mixing – if I’m not working at my console, and have to
use my In-program mixer, I’d want one master fader to work on
my audio and midi busses simultaneously…ect…

Portability – Right now I can walk into practically any studio in
town with a Digital Performer or Pro Tools session file,
containing my synced midi and audio, and be good to go for
overdubs, sweetening, whatever. I wouldn’t have to try renting
extra computers pre-configured with extinct software. Can you do
that with separate Vegas and Studio Vision files?

I could go on and on, but you're not going to buy a bit of it anyway.
Everybody has ways they like to work, and I’m not against your
way, so don’t go off like a little teapot.










Brian Franz wrote:
>>Yes, I did read it, and if you read further to my post, I made the
>>point that I was able to do everything he was complaining that
he
>>couldn't do, by using an external sequencer with Vegas. So
what's
>>the benefits again? I only see downsides having audio and
midi in
>>the same program. Which are, the midi features in a good
audio
>>program have never been as good as a dedicated
sequencing program,
>>Midi tracks clutter your monitor when you're trying to edit audio
and
>>Vice Versa. Adding midi will eat more valuable computer
resources,
>>and most combo programs in the past have always had
timing issues
>>between midi and audio tracks. I just don't understand why
you guys
>>are whining about midi tracks in Vegas. SF has never said
Vegas was
>>able to sequence, so if this is a problem for you, then buy a
program
>>that does have these features. Protools, Logic Audio, Cubase,
Digital
>>Performer, Cakewalk. How long was Protools an audio
program, before
>>it had midi tracks? A lot longer than Vegas has been around.
Right
>>now I think I have the best of both worlds, I'm working with my
>>favorite sequencing software (studio Vision) and my favorite
audio
>>editor (Vegas) and they work rock solid together. SO WHAT
ARE THE
>>BENEFITS OF HAVING MIDI TRACKS IMPLEMENTED IN THE
SAME PROGRAM OVER
>>HAVING 2 SEPERATE PROGRAMS TACKLING EACH
TASK???? I'm asking loud
>>and clear, I am an open minded engineer and am always
open to working
>>more effeciently if someone can enlighten me. That's what I
was
>>originally trying to do for you, but you rather pout like a
>>baby....."wahhhhh...I need midi tracks in Vegas"
>>why?..."wahhhh...because I have to have it"
>>
>>peace!!!
>>
>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>He probably read it, I just don't think he got it. Too busy
telling
>>me
>>>>what an idiot I am, I suppose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Shakil Ahmed wrote:
>>>>>>You guys didn't read Dick's original post. It was mainly
about
>>>>effects automation via MIDI.
>>>>>>I am not sure if you CAN automates DX plugins in Vegas
with
>>>>MIDI. And if you really need to have
>>>>>>MIDI sequencing within Vegas. Maybe you can just listen
to a
>>>>MIDI port and patch that to the effects
>>>>>>for automation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, Dick's comment was valid about missing the MIDI
>>>>capability. And if you could have a minimal
>>>>>>MIDI sequencing, it would be sure helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's funny, your argument is that you list the
advantages of
>>>>>>>>working in a Midi/audio environment in the same
audio
>>>>software and
>>>>>>>>yet I haven't seen any. So instead of spouting off, why
don't
>>>>you
>>>>>>>>make your point, so that me and the others who are
not
>>>>identifying
>>>>>>>>with your point can see the advantages. I listed my
>>>>advantages of
>>>>>>>>having it on 2 seperate systems....now I'm listening to
your
>>>>counter
>>>>>>>>point and not hearing a damn thing that makes since.
So
>>>>what's the
>>>>>>>>advantages Dick? Saving money....is the only one I
can
>>>>think of, but
>>>>>>>>you didn't make that point yet. I thought I was offering
useful
>>>>>>>>information, as an alternative for you having problems
with
>>>>Vegas not
>>>>>>>>having midi features. Obviously you don't need the
help,
>>>>and seem to
>>>>>>>>know it all, so then why are you here? This is a user
forum,
>>>>for
>>>>>>>>users to help one another. Like you said,
>>>>Digi,Emagic,Cubase and all
>>>>>>>>those other fine software companies have
implemented
>>>>midi features,
>>>>>>>>so why don't you purchase one of their software
packages
>>>>instead of
>>>>>>>>coming here to cry that Vegas doesn't have it. It
seems like
>>>>someone
>>>>>>>>who's been doing audio engineering for 15 years
would be
>>>>smart enough
>>>>>>>>to purchase a tool that works the way that they do,
instead
>>>>of
>>>>>>>>purchasing a tool and then crying on their forum to
make it
>>>>do what
>>>>>>>>they want it to. You know when I was building a desk
in my
>>>>studio, I
>>>>>>>>used a hammer to drive nails in...I didn't call Stanley
Crying,
>>>>>>>>telling them that their screwdriver needs a heavy
weight on
>>>>it, so I
>>>>>>>>can drive nails with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last
15
>>>>years I've
>>>>>>>>>>been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros,
and
>>>>Todd-AO
>>>>>>>>>>Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with
sync
>>>>every
>>>>>>>>>>fucking day.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>My comments don't presuppose a single way of
working,
>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>instead, address the advantages of working in a
>>>>integrated
>>>>>>>>>>environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign,
emagic,
>>>>Mark of
>>>>>>>>>>the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish
>>>>companies,
>>>>>>>>>>and tell them they're wasting their time putting
>>>>sequencers in
>>>>>>>>>>their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like
him)
>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>want that, and that's what SMPTE and extra
computers
>>>>are for".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thank goodness Sonic Foundry is bucking the
trend and
>>>>giving
>>>>>>>>>>us all what we really want, no wonder all the pros
are
>>>>using
>>>>>>>>>>Vegas (heh heh).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>P.S. David, sorry about the "dumbass" comment, it
was
>>>>a little
>>>>>>>>>>harsh. I should have figured, when I posted my
>>>>(non-combative)
>>>>>>>>>>criticism of Vegas, that I'd get responses like "Shut
up
>>>>and use a
>>>>>>>>>>loop".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

Alls I have to say is, Yes I would because I know how to engineer.
It's called "2 beep", and "standard midi"....I don't expect you to
understand those terms though and I don't feel like having to explain
them to an engineer of 15 years. Maybe someone else can waste their
breath and explain them to you.

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>Wow!
>>I had a feeling so I went back and checked, YOU'RE THE SAME
>>KOOK I HASSLED WITH LAST TIME I POSTED HERE! I also
>>noticed, your comments appear in practically every post in this
>>forum. Amazing how the people with the least to offer, have the
>>most to say.
>>
>>Listen man, I'll make one last effort. Unlike you, I never said
your
>>way of working was wrong. If you want to use 10 computers all
>>running different programs, that's cool. If you want to use a
>>sequencing program that's no longer supported because the
>>company went out of business, more power to ya.
>>
>>I DON’T.
>>
>>Among the many reasons I prefer a single platform (and I’m not
>>alone) are,
>>
>>Edit Coherency - if I need to conform my session for something
>>like a picture change, it’s a lot easier to do when both my midi
>>and audio tracks are aligned on the same screen to the same
>>timeline and/or grid, using uniform tools. Doing that in two
>>different environments is obviously going to be a lot slower, less
>>accurate, and give you carpal tunnel syndrome.
>>
>>In-Program Mixing – if I’m not working at my console, and have to
>>use my In-program mixer, I’d want one master fader to work on
>>my audio and midi busses simultaneously…ect…
>>
>>Portability – Right now I can walk into practically any studio in
>>town with a Digital Performer or Pro Tools session file
>>containing my synced midi and audio, and be good to go for
>>overdubs, sweetening, whatever. I wouldn’t have to try renting
>>extra computers pre-configured with extinct software. Can you do
>>that with separate Vegas and Studio Vision files?
>>
>>I could go on and on, but you not going to buy a bit of it. Anyway,
>>everybody has ways they like to work, and I’m not against your
>>way, so don’t go off like a little teapot.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>>Yes, I did read it, and if you read further to my post, I made
the
>>>>point that I was able to do everything he was complaining that
>>he
>>>>couldn't do, by using an external sequencer with Vegas. So
>>what's
>>>>the benefits again? I only see downsides having audio and
>>midi in
>>>>the same program. Which are, the midi features in a good
>>audio
>>>>program have never been as good as a dedicated
>>sequencing program,
>>>>Midi tracks clutter your monitor when you're trying to edit audio
>>and
>>>>Vice Versa. Adding midi will eat more valuable computer
>>resources,
>>>>and most combo programs in the past have always had
>>timing issues
>>>>between midi and audio tracks. I just don't understand why
>>you guys
>>>>are whining about midi tracks in Vegas. SF has never said
>>Vegas was
>>>>able to sequence, so if this is a problem for you, then buy a
>>program
>>>>that does have these features. Protools, Logic Audio, Cubase,
>>Digital
>>>>Performer, Cakewalk. How long was Protools an audio
>>program, before
>>>>it had midi tracks? A lot longer than Vegas has been around.
>>Right
>>>>now I think I have the best of both worlds, I'm working with my
>>>>favorite sequencing software (studio Vision) and my favorite
>>audio
>>>>editor (Vegas) and they work rock solid together. SO WHAT
>>ARE THE
>>>>BENEFITS OF HAVING MIDI TRACKS IMPLEMENTED IN THE
>>SAME PROGRAM OVER
>>>>HAVING 2 SEPERATE PROGRAMS TACKLING EACH
>>TASK???? I'm asking loud
>>>>and clear, I am an open minded engineer and am always
>>open to working
>>>>more effeciently if someone can enlighten me. That's what I
>>was
>>>>originally trying to do for you, but you rather pout like a
>>>>baby....."wahhhhh...I need midi tracks in Vegas"
>>>>why?..."wahhhh...because I have to have it"
>>>>
>>>>peace!!!
>>>>
>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>He probably read it, I just don't think he got it. Too busy
>>telling
>>>>me
>>>>>>what an idiot I am, I suppose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Shakil Ahmed wrote:
>>>>>>>>You guys didn't read Dick's original post. It was mainly
>>about
>>>>>>effects automation via MIDI.
>>>>>>>>I am not sure if you CAN automates DX plugins in Vegas
>>with
>>>>>>MIDI. And if you really need to have
>>>>>>>>MIDI sequencing within Vegas. Maybe you can just listen
>>to a
>>>>>>MIDI port and patch that to the effects
>>>>>>>>for automation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, Dick's comment was valid about missing the MIDI
>>>>>>capability. And if you could have a minimal
>>>>>>>>MIDI sequencing, it would be sure helpful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It's funny, your argument is that you list the
>>advantages of
>>>>>>>>>>working in a Midi/audio environment in the same
>>audio
>>>>>>software and
>>>>>>>>>>yet I haven't seen any. So instead of spouting off, why
>>don't
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>make your point, so that me and the others who are
>>not
>>>>>>identifying
>>>>>>>>>>with your point can see the advantages. I listed my
>>>>>>advantages of
>>>>>>>>>>having it on 2 seperate systems....now I'm listening to
>>your
>>>>>>counter
>>>>>>>>>>point and not hearing a damn thing that makes since.
>>So
>>>>>>what's the
>>>>>>>>>>advantages Dick? Saving money....is the only one I
>>can
>>>>>>think of, but
>>>>>>>>>>you didn't make that point yet. I thought I was offering
>>useful
>>>>>>>>>>information, as an alternative for you having problems
>>with
>>>>>>Vegas not
>>>>>>>>>>having midi features. Obviously you don't need the
>>help,
>>>>>>and seem to
>>>>>>>>>>know it all, so then why are you here? This is a user
>>forum,
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>users to help one another. Like you said,
>>>>>>Digi,Emagic,Cubase and all
>>>>>>>>>>those other fine software companies have
>>implemented
>>>>>>midi features,
>>>>>>>>>>so why don't you purchase one of their software
>>packages
>>>>>>instead of
>>>>>>>>>>coming here to cry that Vegas doesn't have it. It
>>seems like
>>>>>>someone
>>>>>>>>>>who's been doing audio engineering for 15 years
>>would be
>>>>>>smart enough
>>>>>>>>>>to purchase a tool that works the way that they do,
>>instead
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>purchasing a tool and then crying on their forum to
>>make it
>>>>>>do what
>>>>>>>>>>they want it to. You know when I was building a desk
>>in my
>>>>>>studio, I
>>>>>>>>>>used a hammer to drive nails in...I didn't call Stanley
>>Crying,
>>>>>>>>>>telling them that their screwdriver needs a heavy
>>weight on
>>>>>>it, so I
>>>>>>>>>>can drive nails with it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>Boy I guess you think you showed me, eh Brian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Listen Blowhard, I know all about sync. In the last
>>15
>>>>>>years I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>been employed at Sony, Universal, Warner Bros,
>>and
>>>>>>Todd-AO
>>>>>>>>>>>>Studios (5 yrs at Todd), to name a few. I deal with
>>sync
>>>>>>every
>>>>>>>>>>>>fucking day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>My comments don't presuppose a single way of
>>working,
>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>>>instead, address the advantages of working in a
>>>>>>integrated
>>>>>>>>>>>>environment. I'll be sure to phone digidesign,
>>emagic,
>>>>>>Mark of
>>>>>>>>>>>>the Unicorn, Steinberg, and all those other foolish
>>>>>>companies,
>>>>>>>>>>>>and tell them they're wasting their time putting
>>>>>>sequencers in
>>>>>>>>>>>>their DAW software. "Brain says real musicians (like
>>him)
>>>>>>don'

It's actually called a "2 pop", dimbulb.


Brian Franz wrote:
>>Alls I have to say is, Yes I would because I know how to
engineer.
>>It's called "2 beep", and "standard midi"....I don't expect you to
>>understand those terms though and I don't feel like having to
explain
>>them to an engineer of 15 years. Maybe someone else can
waste their
>>breath and explain them to you.

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>It's actually called a "2 pop", dimbulb.
>>
>>
>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>>Alls I have to say is, Yes I would because I know how to
>>engineer.
>>>>It's called "2 beep", and "standard midi"....I don't expect you
to
>>>>understand those terms though and I don't feel like having to
>>explain
>>>>them to an engineer of 15 years. Maybe someone else can
>>waste their
>>>>breath and explain them to you.
>>

Alright peace. We're starting to look like a couple of old queens
; )






Brian Franz wrote:
>>
>>
>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>It's actually called a "2 pop", dimbulb.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Brian Franz wrote:
>>>>>>Alls I have to say is, Yes I would because I know how to
>>>>engineer.
>>>>>>It's called "2 beep", and "standard midi"....I don't expect
you
>>to
>>>>>>understand those terms though and I don't feel like
having to
>>>>explain
>>>>>>them to an engineer of 15 years. Maybe someone else
can
>>>>waste their
>>>>>>breath and explain them to you.
>>>>