Subject:Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automation

Posted by: darrena

Date:12/18/2008 2:06:58 PM

I read through the external control surface section of the manual and I'm still a bit befuddled. My goal is to set up a single knob, wheel, or fader as an external controller that I can easily map to any envelope on any channel.

What I found in the manual and help files was the ability to assign a knob to dedicate to a specific property of a specific track (like a fader or pan). What I didn't understand was whether it's possible to assign a single knob on my MIDI keyboard as an external controller and on the fly for any given take choose which track and which envelope I want it to control.

For example. I want to add an envelope (let's say it's an FX automation envelope, for example--something that's not always the same and doesn't appear in the Configure Generic Control dialog) to a track (let's say track 73, one that I clearly haven't set up any automation mapping for in advance). And I want to turn on Automation Write for that track and have, say, some random knob that sends continuous MIDI controller data on my keyboard control the automation parameter.

Can I do this? How?

The only section I could find that remotely was similar to what I want to do was the "In the real world" section on page 294, which was specific to the Behringer BCF2000.

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automation

Reply by: pwppch

Date:12/18/2008 2:24:12 PM

Can I do this?

No.

Peter

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automation

Reply by: darrena

Date:12/18/2008 2:40:53 PM

To be clear: is there any way to use a generic midi control device to record arbitrary envelope data?

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automat

Reply by: pHuNzOnE

Date:12/18/2008 7:19:19 PM

There are two possible ways:

1. Get a Novation SL series midi controller and use the automap universal template to control automapped vsts or vstis ... including the ones that come with Acid.

2. Get a Mackie Control Universal (or something that can emulate it like the Behringer BCF2000) and learn how it's mapped for the Vegas/ Acid template (You can get a Vegas template on the Mackie web site).

The later option will also permit you to start automation recording from your controller .... but it is not as nifty as the SL for writing parameters.

Better yet, get both.

pHuN

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automat

Reply by: darrena

Date:12/18/2008 8:33:08 PM

I find the concept of the dedicated control surface overkill. I have a digital mixer which has a bank full of faders and I have a MIDI keyboard with a touchpad, 2 controller wheels, and 5 knobs that generate continuous MIDI controller data.

And I'd use this feature only occasionally at best.

I'm not sure what "automapped" means, but I think it means I can't just select an arbitrary VST or VSTi that has automation parameters and set it to map to some appropriate MIDI controller.

What I really want to do is say "use this midi controller data to create an envelope for this automation parameter." Are you saying I could do this with a dedicated control suface but not a MIDI controller?

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automation

Reply by: pwppch

Date:12/18/2008 9:22:06 PM

Not with the Generic Control Surface driver.

It can control recording of automation data with Track and bus channel Volume, Pan, and Mute. There is no way to configure control over FX or Soft-synth parameter automation.

The Mackie MCU driver provides the ability to control Track and Bus FX automation. There is no control over Soft-synth parameter automation.

Possible alternatives is to use a plug-ins ability to listen to MIDI msgs to affect parameters. This is dependent on how the plug-in implements parameter control and parameter change notification.

There is also a solution from Novation that use "Automap Universal" . This permits their controllers to be configured very tightly with any VST FX or Instrument plug-in from any manufacture. It works very well.

I believe Native Instruments Kore products also provide parameter automation control. I am not as familar with this aspect of Kore as I am with the Novation technology.

Peter

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automat

Reply by: pwppch

Date:12/18/2008 9:23:19 PM

What you are asking for is typically called a learn function. ACID Pro does not have this.

Peter

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automat

Reply by: pHuNzOnE

Date:12/19/2008 12:15:25 AM

You said: "I'm not sure what "automapped" means, but I think it means I can't just select an arbitrary VST or VSTi that has automation parameters and set it to map to some appropriate MIDI controller."

No, it means the opposite. You can just select an arbitrary VST or VSTi that has automatable parameters ... it's gui only needs be the selected window for it to be ready to work. You "automap" the vst or vsti one time after you install it ... takes about 5 seconds ... and then ever after you can use it to grab any parameter you want on the fly. Google "Novation Automap Universal" and you'll learn about it.

"What I really want to do is say "use this midi controller data to create an envelope for this automation parameter." Are you saying I could do this with a dedicated control suface but not a MIDI controller?"

A dedicated control surface is a midi controller. It's just that like any hardware installed on your PC needs a driver to communicate with the OS ... a midi controller needs a template or 'handshake' to communicate with your DAW. It just happens that the Mackie template has been the standard for a long time ... so most DAWs including Acid have it built in. That's why I say get a Mackie or something that emulates it. With the Novation midi controllers they have devised a clever software solution for their hardware called "Universal Automap."

pHuN

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automat

Reply by: Sackclothlamb

Date:12/19/2008 2:53:46 AM

Here is a link to a couple of apps which apparently work in conjunction to act as a generic Mackie emulator. I haven't tried these, but they may allow you to do what you are looking for.

http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/download/Download.php

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automation

Reply by: darrena

Date:12/19/2008 1:54:28 PM

Peter:

You said "Possible alternatives is to use a plug-ins ability to listen to MIDI msgs to affect parameters. This is dependent on how the plug-in implements parameter control and parameter change notification."

Is it possible to get an audio effect plugin that knows how to listen to midi (say Vinyl Boy) to receive MIDI even though it's on an audio channel?

Subject:RE: Generic MIDI COntroller->Envelope Automation

Reply by: pwppch

Date:12/19/2008 7:54:40 PM

Is it possible to get an audio effect plugin that knows how to listen to midi (say Vinyl Boy) to receive MIDI even though it's on an audio channel?

I was not really clear. I was speaking about VST Instruments.

ACID can not send MIDI to Audio FX so it can not help you with this. The best alternative for something like this is the solution that Novation offers.

Peter