Subject:What NOT to install?

Posted by: Douglas Clark

Date:11/19/2008 12:26:17 AM

I've just built a new PC for music, with a clean WinXP SP3 install. I'm about to start installing Acid 7a, Vegas 8c, Sound Forge, plug-ins, VSTi's, etc. I recently found that NERO 8 was the cause of a few problems on my old PC, which was otherwise extremely stable. So I'll avoid NERO this time around. Does anyone have any other apps, utilities or drivers they would advise NOT to install on an Acid music PC?

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:11/19/2008 3:49:15 AM

Anything Symantec; avoid like the plague.

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:11/19/2008 4:55:16 AM

> I recently found that NERO 8 was the cause of a few problems on my old PC, which was otherwise extremely stable.

Same here. I will never use Nero again. Some people on the Vegas forum recommended ImgBurn (which is free) and it's basically what Nero use to be back in the Nero 5 days. I can highly recommend it for burning CD/DVD's, which is all I wanted Nero to do but it insistent on taking over my PC and inserting filters into the video chains and messing with other applications.

As Kelly said avoid anything Norton or Symantec like the plague. ZoneAlarm is getting that way too. It use to be the best and now it's just bloatware. I don't use it anymore.

HP (Hewlett Packard) always had very nasty printer install programs that also take over your PC and install all sorts of services that poll/phone home and interrupt when you don't want them to. I always go to the HP site and download the enterprise/business "drivers only" installer which just gives you the printer drivers you want without all of the HP bloatware.

Adobe Video Suite wreaked major havoc with my XP PC. Not sure if you do video work and I believe the component that was the culprit was Premiere Pro but it installed an AUDIO driver that messed up SONAR (but luckily not ACID). Why a video program felt it had to secretly install an audio device driver that breaks other audio programs so that their video program could work is beyond me but Adobe is not high on my list of "well behaved" software.

The sad thing is that there are probably 100's of other programs just waiting to mess up your PC. I would get a good backup program (I use Acronis True Image) and take a backup at different stages of building your new computer. If any program breaks things you can quickly restore (as uninstallers are often ineffective). The problem is that quite often you don't find out what's causing the problem until it's too late (i.e., days later).

I know how you feel. I'm just finishing up building my Vista 64 computer and I had Boris RED working fine until I installed Adobe CS4... now Boris RED doesn't work anymore. :( It's extremely frustrating but at least Adobe didn't mess up my audio this time. lol.

Good Luck.

~jr

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/19/2008 5:26:30 AM

I recently found that NERO 8 was the cause of a few problems on my old PC

Nothing wrong with Nero 8 at all - as long as you make sure NOT to install anything but Burning ROM. A while back some smart cookie modified Nero's official installer to create a Nero Micro Edition - and it ensures you get nothing but the burning engine. Haven't had a single issue in over a year using this "special" edition...

VP

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:11/19/2008 6:00:21 AM

> Nothing wrong with Nero 8 at all - as long as you make sure NOT to install anything but Burning ROM.

I don't know about your "special edition" but there is NO WAY to accomplish this from the software that Nero sells. You can uncheck everything except Burning ROM and Nero will still install parasites that mess up your PC. I have validated this on 3 different systems that it messed up with just Burning ROM checked.

~jr

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: barleycorn

Date:11/19/2008 6:39:01 AM

> avoid anything Norton or Symantec like the plague. ZoneAlarm is getting that way too. It use to be the best and now it's just bloatware

Norton AntiVirus 2009 is lean and quick and I can recommend it.

See Norton 2009: A message from the performance team for some info about their goals.
 

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: barleycorn

Date:11/19/2008 7:06:47 AM

Suspect non-real-time applications and devices can always be run in a virtual machine.

Virtual PC 2007 is more capable (supporting DirectX 9.0c) but is $189.
 

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/19/2008 8:11:15 AM

there is NO WAY to accomplish this from the software that Nero sells

That is correct.

The Micro Edition is very easy to find and requires your valid purchased serial to install - just as the full bloated Nero 8 package does.

However - The Micro installer is not packaged by Nero - by but a frustrated user like you and I who finally snapped and took matters into his own hands after being pushed over the line by Nero's completely useless "retail" installer.

Please understand that I do not usually advocate any third party solution like this - but the burning engine of Nero still is one of the best - and in this rare instance - when I first discovered this package - I put it through it's usual closed testing phase to ensure there was nothing else coming along for the ride - but I can assure you - this works very very well.

For the record - I tried ImgBurn and all the rest and Nero still kicks all their asses in the burning department ONLY. I stress that I only use/endorse Nero's burning component while the rest of their completely useless applications could disappear tomorrow and I wouldn't waste a single nanosecond thinking about it.

And I am sure that Nero is well aware of this repackage and as such - it may affect you if you ever need support - but in years of Nero use - it's been so bloody solid - I have never needed to call.

Besides - I bought the bloody thing and as a licensed user - I will decide to install the version that best suits me - not the other way around.

I actually applaud this guy and his work - Nero should hire him and put him in charge of building their installers - it's really that good.

VP

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Douglas Clark

Date:11/19/2008 12:50:43 PM

Thanks for the tips.

- I like the NERO burning ROM program, and never use the rest of the NERO "suite". But for now I'm trying ImgBurn. I may look into the "micro" installer if ImgBurn doesn't meet my needs. I wonder why I upgraded to NERO 7 and then NERO 8, when NBR didn't seem to change at all from v6. Maybe the drive support gets important updates in the newer versions?

- I gave up on Symantec and Norton long ago, and like Real Audio, I don't intend to go back.

- I don't intend to install any anti-virus software on the new PC. My old PC survived 5+ years without it. I do all my downloading and email on my laptop, with eset NOD32 v2.7 installed (downgraded from v3). I have been running Spyware Doctor though. It's the "legitimate" bloated packages like NERO, NORTON, Apple, Adobe, ATI, etc. that cause the most headaches however. I spend alot of time after doing updates to disable or uninstall all the fluff and update monitors these packages install. What a pain in the asus.

- Acronis Drive Image was one of the first utilities installed on my new PC...to make a backup of the initial "clean" install.

While we're at it, can anyone recommend a low-power, passively cooled PCIe video card appropriate for video editing with Vegas, Acid and Photoshop? I bought an ASUS ATI EAH3650 Silent 512MB video card...for the "silent" part. It runs really hot even at idle. I haven't been able to find a power consumption specification anywhere. My old PC has a Matrox Milleneum P650 (AGP), which has worked flawlessly, and silently, for audio and video (and keeps the kids from asking to install games on my PC!) Maybe I should look at Matrox again, but I sort of thought the "ATI-Sony cooperation" mentioned last year might mean that Vegas would begin to utilize ATI GPUs. But nothing in sight...just dreaming, I guess.

Another item I need is a midi interface. I have a M-Audio USB MidiSport 2x2 on the old PC, but I experienced pretty high midi latency with it in Acid, and I suspect the driver caused some problems, too. The midi ports on my Edirol UA-1000 work much better, but I still need two more midi ports. Can anyone recommend a 2-port midi interface, USB or otherwise?

Are there any PCIe audio cards yet? Since I have a USB interface for recording (mostly on my laptop), I only need a good stereo line in/out adapter for mixing, like my trusty Echo Mia on the old PC...but perhaps with midi ports? Meanwhile I've installed the drivers for the onboard Realtek ALC1200 sound chip. I haven't hooked up speakers yet, but I'm not expecting pro audio.

Thanks for your help!

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/19/2008 1:09:06 PM

I wonder why I upgraded to NERO 7 and then NERO 8, when NBR didn't seem to change at all from v6. Maybe the drive support gets important updates in the newer versions?

I went for the v8 Micro for use in Vista. I was on 6 for years - skipped 7 completely but 8 works perfectly in Vista 64/32

I don't intend to install any anti-virus software on the new PC. My old PC survived 5+ years without it. I do all my downloading and email on my laptop, with eset NOD32 v2.7 installed (downgraded from v3). I have been running Spyware Doctor though.

In the studio - no AV either with full Internet access and never a single blip. I dumped Spyware Doctor hard after their crappy 6.x release (they even refunded my money - that was a pleasant surprise.

For the office workstations - went from now bloated AVG to ESET 3.0 and it has been rock solid. No issues in 6 months or new usage.

While we're at it, can anyone recommend a low-power, passively cooled PCIe video card appropriate for video editing with Vegas, Acid and Photoshop?

Any of the current low budget nVidia/ATI solutions will work fine. I migrated all workstations over to the eVGA 8600GTS - about 80 bucks a pop. Plenty of speed, ram etc. This one is not passively cooled - but there are still plenty to choose from.

My old PC has a Matrox Milleneum P650 (AGP), which has worked flawlessly, and silently, for audio and video (and keeps the kids from asking to install games on my PC!)

That was an excellent card - still have a 750 AGP laying around here somewhere

Maybe I should look at Matrox again

Matrox do PCI-e now as well - but they are still oddly more money for not a lot of advantage when a current nVidia/ATI brand will do just fine.


Cheers!

VP

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Douglas Clark

Date:11/19/2008 3:42:25 PM

Thanks VP. Sorry, it isn't Spyware Doctor, it is the free Spybot-S&D that I've been running. But I'm not sure if it is doing anything useful in my case.

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Cheye

Date:11/19/2008 4:04:49 PM

What do you guys say about Nero 7? Any issues with this version or recommendations about settings for Nero?

Thanks

cheye

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: pHuNzOnE

Date:11/19/2008 4:37:55 PM

RE: 2x2 Midi ... I've been using the emu Xmidi 2x2

( http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=15187 )

for a couple of years and it's worked flawlessly. It also functions as a 'dongle' so if you want to go after emulator x or proteus you can run them with this midi post connected.

RE: PCIe ... RME has a PCIe card that works with the MultiFace II ... Lynx was supposed to have one 'any day,' but didn't last I looked.

The Emu Xmidi 2x2 is cheap ... the RME is not!

pHuN

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/19/2008 6:05:23 PM

What do you guys say about Nero 7? Any issues with this version or recommendations about settings for Nero?

I say..walk..no...run away from 7. That version was a true disaster. 6 was classic...7 was laughable but they got back on track with 8. But as mentioned - try and locate the Micro edition and save yourself an extreme amount of hassle (assuming the burning engine is all you are looking for).

Cheers!

VP

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: kbruff

Date:11/20/2008 4:23:22 PM

Sorry friends but I actually run just about everything on my system and I can honestly say everything runs fine....

All Sont Apps
Fl Studio
Native Instruments
ProTools etc.

Subject:RE: What NOT to install?

Reply by: Douglas Clark

Date:11/21/2008 12:45:27 AM

I have been lucky like you, Kevin. My 5 year old home built "studio" PC has had all sorts of stuff installed, and uninstalled, over time. I began with Vegas 4....and have moved on with no significant problems. But no MS Office, and no anti-virus on that PC. I have only experienced a few unexplained glitches, and NERO 8 seems to be one of the culprits due to its codecs etc getting in the way of "professional" codecs.