Subject:Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Posted by: b4dawn

Date:11/12/2008 9:33:31 AM

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: acid70.exe
Application Version: 7.0.0.502
Application Timestamp: 48e540ef
Fault Module Name: StackHash_fd00
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 00000000
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 6e757220
OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: fd00
Additional Information 2: ea6f5fe8924aaa756324d57f87834160
Additional Information 3: fd00
Additional Information 4: ea6f5fe8924aaa756324d57f87834160

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/12/2008 10:38:44 AM

OS? Vista? XP?

VP

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/12/2008 6:52:13 PM

Vista Home Premium

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/13/2008 11:35:21 AM

Did you report the crash to the proper place as well as here ?

geoff

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/13/2008 12:02:43 PM

This may or may not help - but I too run Vista 64 with AP7 and have no issues accessing any of the Help.

Could you walk us through exactly what/where you are clicking?

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/14/2008 2:06:46 PM

No, should I do that from now on and is the same url as ap6?

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/14/2008 2:55:43 PM

The exact steps were, hit the drill down menu, then a poof crash every time.

Well, it's all right now.

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/14/2008 3:15:21 PM

The exact steps were, hit the drill down menu, then a poof crash every time

And you are right - the rest of the post is useless. I have no idea what you are going on about...

VP

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/15/2008 8:49:06 AM

We have not been able to reproduce the behavior you are seeing.

It was supposed to be looking for VST's. The registry showed the proper AP7 default in place, yet it went after all the spyware in all my store or internet bought programs alphabetically, starting with Adobe. Peter said it was built that way and there is no way it can be interrupted to fix, at least that's what I gathered.

I did not say it was "built this way".

What I said is that the scan cannot be prevented or suspended at start up.

We do not look for spyware or any other malicous stuff that is on your system. We have no control over whether your system has such software installed.

To be clear:

We scan the defined VST directory. By default this is defined by a registry entry.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\VST

If this registry entry does not exist, then it will define it based upon common usage to be:

x:\program files\vstplugins

where "x:" is your Windows System drive.

If this directory does not exist, then you will get no VST or VSTis discovered on your system.

Only DirectX plugins will be discovered as they are located based upon the rules for DirectX which is different from VST.

We never scan the entire system for VST plugins unless you tells us to.

Again, we are unable to reproduce your problems. We have no other reports of this behavior.

You should also note that many plug-in developers use copy protection solutions that can report false positives to virus and spyware detection software. We cannot control such behavior.

It sounds like your system is messed up. How, I do not know.


WRT to your other problems, I am not clear on who you talked to. If you could provide further information I will have the issue investigated.

I would be surprised if anybody threatened you. Whether they dissed me or anybody else here at SCS is interesting, but again, I would be very surprised.

If you have names or any other information regarding your contact with our Consumer Help group, please provide me with the details and I will invistigate your problem.

Peter

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/15/2008 11:19:01 PM

To be clear:

We scan the defined VST directory. By default this is defined by a registry entry.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\VST

If this registry entry does not exist, then it will define it based upon common usage to be:

x:\program files\vstplugins

where "x:" is your Windows System drive.

If this directory does not exist, then you will get no VST or VSTis discovered on your system.

" I wouldn't mess with this right now, scan will end up picking up all the malware located within trusted programs, then, put itself in that unending circle we talked about."

Only DirectX plugins will be discovered as they are located based upon the rules for DirectX which is different from VST.

We never scan the entire system for VST plugins unless you tells us to.

"Do not ask AP7 to scan the C drive without explicit instructions on where to find everything, if anyone tries this, there will be many unhappy people tomorrow. Do not try this."

Again, we are unable to reproduce your problems. We have no other reports of this behavior.

You should also note that many plug-in developers use copy protection solutions that can report false positives to virus and spyware detection software. We cannot control such behavior.

"It was very surprising to me as well, top manufacturers using malware in their top of the line programs, I never blamed Sony for this, but then again, the circle it was in ate up all resources at alphabet letter D, it never got to S, so I can't say if Sony is back in some kind of root kit form of behavior again. Besides, there is enough parts of my firewall and antivirus, malware and spyware that AP7 wants me to drop to get Media Center downloads which leads me to believe that AP7 wants to do something wonky. Is there a place to get these downloads, without dropping trow, using Firefox."

"I did see this a few times posted but I been running it for a year and the effect scan had was profound. Not wanting to be a slacker and give any input that was useful, I looked up each and every one of the pieces AP7. It was malware. Older stuff to boot, so to speak."

It sounds like your system is messed up. How, I do not know.

"My system is perfect, so are the three others. None of them have exhibited this type of behavior before."


WRT to your other problems, I am not clear on who you talked to. If you could provide further information I will have the issue investigated.

I would be surprised if anybody threatened you. Whether they dissed me or anybody else here at SCS is interesting, but again, I would be very surprised.

If you have names or any other information regarding your contact with our Consumer Help group, please provide me with the details and I will invistigate your problem.

"Thank you for the offer but they left suddenly, if I hear from them again, I will open up the issue again and thank you. My claim was completely legitimate as you know, the threat was real, so I reacted."

Peter

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Grazie

Date:11/16/2008 12:19:32 AM

I realise this thread IS about AP7, but I get constant crashing of Vegas Pro8 Help File - but NOT in Vegas7.

I was wondering if this might have some similar causal effect for AP7?

Always willing to assist,

Grazie

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/16/2008 7:11:49 AM

"My system is perfect, so are the three others. None of them have exhibited this type of behavior before."

Well - I have been casually following this thread and I have to say - for someone whose system is "perfect", I cannot believe the time you waste reporting completely bizarre (and non-reproducible) problems.

Do you honestly believe that your system is perfect when not one single other user has reported ANYTHING like this?

Don't you think that if there was actually a real problem here - one of us out here in the big world would be able to reproduce it?

Considering no one has reported anything like you describe - your system is completely baked - the faster that you reinstall everything - and for the love of god - pick one security app this time - the faster you will be able to enjoy AP7.

The program works excellent - especially after the 7.0a update.

VP

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/16/2008 1:00:22 PM

Learn to mind your own biz. You were told in advance not to read it.

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/16/2008 1:02:50 PM

OK, try this then.

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/16/2008 1:14:48 PM

VP,

Since you and Peter and entire WI team can not find this neuron in my mind that's fired one too many times and died, let's isolate me as being the only user in the world that has problems with AP and rather than go off subject, every current user of AP7 try this; as a time saver which we as writers love.

Go to the scan page, type in C: as maybe someone in the world would, to scan the drive for VST's that were misplaced and forgotten about, VST's that were turned into DX's by mfx wrappers and generally start using again something you have purchased, at least one beta tester should have. I found it in three hours. Come back and expose me or apologize.

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/16/2008 1:21:15 PM

VP,

If you're system isn't perfect and you can't maintain it, then keep quiet. Please do not use the name of the LORD in vain in this forum, it offends me and opens the door to other beliefs which are false, we don't need that here.

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/16/2008 1:24:27 PM

Grazie,

The problem is solved. AP7 needs access to the outside world. If it doesn't get it, it refuses to play nice. Just let it use Micorsoft's Internet Explorer and let it run scripts and help will work.

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/16/2008 4:45:44 PM

AP7 needs access to the outside world. If it doesn't get it, it refuses to play nice. Just let it use Micorsoft's Internet Explorer and let it run scripts and help will work.

This is not true. We do not require 'access to the outside world" for ACID to function properly. We do not depend upon Explorer to "run scripts".

However, I want to pursue your claim to make sure everything is as it should - or that I have missed something. Exactly how is ACID causing IE to run scripts? The more details you can provide would be helpful.

I also tried your "scan all of C:" test. No problems. Why you would do this makes no sense, but it is part of our test cases.

I still believe your perfect systems are messed up, but you know your systems better than I do.All I do know is that all of the problems you report saying that ACID installs or uses or some how makes virus and spyware active on your system are completely false.

Q: You removed parts of your post that I responded to. Why? Did you change your mind or realize you had made a mistake?

Peter

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/16/2008 10:21:19 PM

Learn to mind your own biz. You were told in advance not to read it.

b4dawn,

Any poster here the right to respond to any thread or post. Please to not tell other users what they can respond to or not. This is not your choice to make or control. These are public forums. No user can assume that any other forum member is not allowed to respond, whether you made that request or not.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/16/2008 10:23:42 PM

b4dawn,

There is no reason to be upset or pick on anybody here.

If indeed there is a problem - and I do not doubt you are seeing the problem - we want to know about it.

Any user that wishes to attempt to reproduce this, please do so. If you experiance any problems, please report them to us. There is no need to appologize to b4dawn or anybody else.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/17/2008 5:40:07 AM

Go to the scan page, type in C: as maybe someone in the world would, to scan the drive for VST's that were misplaced and forgotten about, VST's that were turned into DX's by mfx wrappers and generally start using again something you have purchased, at least one beta tester should have. I found it in three hours. Come back and expose me or apologize.

Well - at least I finally know what the problem is

1. WHY would you place "C:\" in the area to scan? On a CORRECTLY setup up box - all VSTs are in C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins. There is NO reason that anything should be anywhere else. If it is - you need to do some cleanup work and reinstall everything to be in the above mentioned folder.

2. Misplaced and forgotten? I thought your machine was perfect?

3. You are now exposed. Just the mere fact that you would even try to scan your bloody entire C drive tells me that your software is not installed properly. Conversely - if you are willingly installing plugins all over the place and not in a central location - none of your troubles surprises me in the least.

Here is how to solve your issue:

99.9% of all VST plugins will look for the C:\Program FIles\Steinberg\VSTPlugins directly during their installation. If you do not have a Steinberg host (Cubase/Nuendo) then create this folder manually. Make sure everything plugin you own (Direct X not withstanding - Acid will handle those internally) gets steered toward this folder at install time.

If necessary - uninstall and reinstall EVERY plugin and make sure the installation starts and ends with C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins. DO NOT ALLOW ANY ROGUE INSTALLERS to put their files anywhere else

This is why my install (and practically everyone elses in here) works the first time and everytime. Our VSTs are installed in the right spot from the start - AP7 is installed - picks up that location and off we go.

When you are done - enjoy AP7 - the way it was intended.

VP

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/17/2008 6:47:11 AM

On a CORRECTLY setup up box - all VSTs are in C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins.

This is not always the case. It depends on whether you have previously installed a Stienberg app. The more likely default is c:\program files\VSTPlugins. This is what ACID and Vegas look for by default if the registry is not set .

Additionally, we try to avoid the c:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins directory since many of the Steinberg plug-ins cannot be used out side of the Steinberg hosts. You will typically be yelled at by the plug-in to indicate this. We handle it, but you will see error msgs reported by the Steinberg plug-ins.

DO NOT ALLOW ANY ROGUE INSTALLERS to put their files anywhere else

Depending on the plug-in's install utility, most will read the registry and place them in the common directory. So if your VST registry entry does not point to c:\program files\steinberg\VSTPlugins, a third party plug-in can and will install into a different directory. Some plug-in vendors also permit you to install to multiple directories.


VP: Please avoid being trapped by b4dawn or other forum members that are looking for a fight. It does not do much good in my experiance to turn the forums into a battle ground. Just ignore any personal attacks and let the flame die out. By all means provide help and correct information when ever you can. We appreciate it. Battles on these or any forums rarely result in useful content. A healthy debate is always a good thing, but when another user has an axe to grind or a personal aggenda, there is little good that can come from a name calling session.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/17/2008 8:42:37 AM

This is not always the case. It depends on whether you have previously installed a Stienberg app. The more likely default is c:\program files\VSTPlugins. This is what ACID and Vegas look for by default if the registry is not set .

Agreed - however I have seen different conditions. While I always install my Steinberg host(s) first - so I guess I am used to seeing that directory in play and I understand that the host is setting up the registry in that way.

However - I have tested some of my VSTi's without a Steinberg host and even here on my work machine (which has no DAW software on it) - and in many cases - I get a C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins by default.

Additionally, we try to avoid the c:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins directory since many of the Steinberg plug-ins cannot be used out side of the Steinberg hosts. You will typically be yelled at by the plug-in to indicate this. We handle it, but you will see error msgs reported by the Steinberg plug-ins.

Fair enough - while I haven't had a single problem with ACID scanning my C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins directory - which has a boatload of Steinberg "only" plugs in it. ACID handles all of that very well - and so it should.

I also do not use any of the Steinberg only plugs in my ACID workspace anyway...I typically set them all from within Acid to never be scanned and to not even be selected in a project.

Depending on the plug-in's install utility, most will read the registry and place them in the common directory. So if your VST registry entry does not point to c:\program files\steinberg\VSTPlugins, a third party plug-in can and will install into a different directory. Some plug-in vendors also permit you to install to multiple directories.

Agreed. But why even let trouble start brewing? All I am advocating is choose a single install location for all plugs - it makes it so much easier to manage.

For me - no matter what the VST/VSTi wants in terms of an install path - it will get forced into C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins regardless. This has never produced a problem in 8 years of daily usage whether it's a freebie from an obscure developer right up to today's big retail packages.

If a user does not have or use a Steinberg host - then at least create a single install folder for all plugs - makes it much easier to troubleshoot a single location and set a single path in AP7 to scan for plugs.

Please avoid being trapped by b4dawn or other forum members that are looking for a fight. It does not do much good in my experience to turn the forums into a battle ground. Just ignore any personal attacks and let the flame die out. By all means provide help and correct information when ever you can. We appreciate it.

Will do. And I will continue to help whenever I can.

Cheers!

VP

Subject:RE: Trying to open any help apps - crashes AP7?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:11/17/2008 4:55:19 PM

"Additionally, we try to avoid the c:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins directory since many of the Steinberg plug-ins cannot be used out side of the Steinberg hosts. You will typically be yelled at by the plug-in to indicate this. We handle it, but you will see error msgs reported by the Steinberg plug-ins."

Yes, this has been an issue for me every time I upgrade AP or SF or change my VSTs around. I have to click trhough dozens on Steinberg plugin messages the first time through.

AP7 seems to be a bit better here. I think previous versions used to scan the entire VST folder every time a change was made (eg if a new VST is added) whereas AP7 just asks about the new ones. I could be wrong - I haven't tested in detail.