Subject:Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Posted by: Rickms

Date:11/11/2008 10:34:43 AM

Am I the only one that believes Sony should open testing to a larger beta testing audience. I know a number of software developers do this including Propellerhead and I believe Ableton. It is hard to believe common test cases did not pick up some of these bugs. These are not some hard to find esoteric bugs but common functions used by most Users.

Bugs happen, we all know that. Sometimes fixing one thing breaks other but a more thoughtful testing and regression testing seems to be in order.

I just wanted to add in my experience this version of ACID is much more stable then 6. Good job to the development team on that.

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Ranger Bob

Date:11/11/2008 1:56:16 PM

This program is loaded with bugs that were obvious in the first two minutes of using it. There was no real testing of this product. If you’re just going to slide someone else’s ready made loops around the timeline, then you’ll be happy with it the way it is. This program has the potential of being the best music production out there. I’ve got Sonar Producer 7 and I still love my Acid Pro 6d more (the first versions of 6 were worse than the current version of 7).

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Greg_M

Date:11/11/2008 2:45:58 PM

Rickms,

You know, the people at Sony are really pretty smart and I would bet that the beta program was well designed and that the beta testers found a lot of things that just didn't get fixed before the release. Recall that the ACID users were begging for a much needed update ASAP. In these times, no application is released without bugs. It just doesn't happen any more. Generally, it is a management or marketting call as to how buggy a program is when released. The best way to avoid being the victim of the bugs is to not buy until a couple of updates have been released. The down side to that is that you will usually pay a little more because the "introductory offers" have expired.

Just a few thoughts.

Greg

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:11/11/2008 3:13:42 PM

"Recall that the ACID users were begging for a much needed update ASAP."

Um, you're not seriously suggesting that rushing 7 to market before it was ready was an appropriate response?

"the beta testers found a lot of things that just didn't get fixed before the release."

So DON'T RELEASE IT YET. This isn't obvious?

"In these times, no application is released without bugs. It just doesn't happen any more."

I bought Adobe Photoshop Elements 6. I do everything it can, it's as solid as a rock.

Microsoft Office? Internet Explorer? Reaper? Cubase? Where is all this buggy software you're talking about?

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Greg_M

Date:11/11/2008 9:40:09 PM

thirdnostril,

I have most of the software you mention and visit the associated forums. They all have bugs. Some more than others. Don't be naive. Software is put to market all the time with known bugs.

Greg

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: feign

Date:11/11/2008 11:07:53 PM

I agree with Greg. I dare you to get any Adobe CS4 application. Photoshop lags so badly when drawing that it's totally unusable; scores of people have complained about this exact same problem, yet Adobe developers claim they can't reproduce the issue. Flash crashes and its various panels don't always show up, text input is buggy. Dreamweaver previews don't refresh. It was all rushed to market when every program needed at least another two months of development. What's worse, is that in all its history, since version 1, Flash has only ever released one update patch, back in 2003; normally they expect users to wait two years until the next release, when those bugs will be fixed and new ones will appear.

In contrast, Acid Pro 7 is very stable so far, the bugs are minor and can for now be worked around, and Sony has already promised a patch within this month. I'd say Acid is the better application and Sony is the more responsive developer.

I know that this is a DAW forum. I'm not comparing Acid to Photoshop and Flash. I'm comparing the quality of new releases and company responses. Adobe CS4 is a disaster with no promise of a fix, while Acid is usable right out of the box.

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:11/12/2008 4:37:14 AM

> "the beta testers found a lot of things that just didn't get fixed before the release."
> So DON'T RELEASE IT YET. This isn't obvious?

Sometimes the decision is not so obvious. If you remember, every day there was another post on this form how ACID is dead, and ACID 7 has been canceled, and all hope is lost we're all moving to Reaper, etc. etc. It didn't matter how many times Peter posed that Sony was working on ACID 7 the negative posts continued. At some point you have to decide to either wait until it is bug free at which point everyone may have left and no one cares anymore, or show them what you got and make it better as you go. I looks like Sony may have decided that it was stable enough to release and it was better to show something than to keep customers waiting.

Everyone wants bug free software. Everyone wants new features. Not everyone is willing to wait for perfection. It's always a tough call for software developers. For almost 30 years now the mantra of PC software has been "never use the x.0 version of a product... always wait for x.1". Case in point... I never event considered Microsoft Vista until SP1 came out. It turns out that this was a very wise decision. Whenever you add a lot of new functionality it takes a while to settle down. I would wait for 7.0a and see how much better it is.

~jr

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:11/12/2008 4:53:36 AM

Great points Johnny. I have used AP7 several times to produce music, using some old features, some new Aria tracks, some KitCore drums, and AP7 has worked solidly throughout.

Rather than worrying about exactly who did and who didn't beta test, I'd like to recognise that the level of response from Peter and ForumAdmin since AP7 was released has been brilliant - this is becoming a very special music platform.

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/12/2008 7:39:42 AM

Rather than worrying about exactly who did and who didn't beta test, I'd like to recognise that the level of response from Peter and ForumAdmin since AP7 was released has been brilliant - this is becoming a very special music platform.

I would have to agree on this. I have been pounded AP7 pretty good since release day - and I have to say - it's hasn't quit on me yet. AP7 is much more robust that 6 ever was and with the forthcoming update - should be even more solid.

Cheers!

VP

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/12/2008 9:32:09 AM

It's definitely not worth your time or effort. Take it for what it's worth.

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/12/2008 10:37:23 AM

It's definitely not worth your time or effort. Take it for what it's worth.

What exactly is not worth my time or effort?

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: b4dawn

Date:11/12/2008 6:54:51 PM

This wasn't directed at you. It was a general opinion.

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/12/2008 8:02:25 PM

"Am I the only one that believes Sony should open testing to a larger beta testing audience "

Really - do you know the size of the beta 'audience' ? I don't. Pray tell.

Sure it has bugs. Some may be acknowledged, some may not be known. All we can do is report them.

geoff

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:11/13/2008 4:48:04 AM

Just an amusing antidote: I was over at another forum yesterday where people we complaining about how buggy the new Photoshop CS4 was. So much so that many were claiming it was unusable in their production pipeline and they've gone back to CS3. Someone commented that you never use a x.0 release of Adobe products. i.e., After Effects 6.0 was terrible and 6.5 fixed it, 7.0 was terrible and 7.5 fixed it. It seems that Adobe always releases a .5 release that is what most people feel the original release should have been. So this is nothing new. The grass is always greener until you get there. ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: Opening beta testing to a larger audience

Reply by: Rickms

Date:11/13/2008 5:39:01 AM

As the original poster I was just thinking that most of the major bugs found were found by Users in the first few days after release. If a beta version was provided to the end User community the way Propellerhead and others do these bugs could have been addressed prior to release.. Again, I do not believe new software will ever be bug free but again the bugs found are fairly obvious.

Even though I commend Sony on the stability of this product and some of the nice feature enhancements. We are still talking about two years + since the last release. That should have been enough time given the features added to be less buggy.

Also, Peter has done an excellent job. He has been pretty beaten down by a number of us, myself included, during the long wait. The Sony folks are so far handling bug management effectively. We will see how long before a patch is available. The latest release of Sonar had its first patch a week or two after release.

This whole thing does make me appreciate the abilities of the Reaper development team. They produce pretty bug free software given the frequency of new features added. Yes, Reaper has bugs too they are just addressed very quickly.