Subject:Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Posted by: jackn2mpu

Date:10/28/2008 6:08:10 AM

What or why exactly does Acid Pro 7 need SP2 for Windoze XP? I have SP1 of XP Home and NO plans to move to SP2 as I have no need for most of what SP2 does anyways, which is security on the internet. I have a well-functioning AP5 and a dodgy AP6 on my computer and for any serious recording I use Sonar.
Jack

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:10/31/2008 1:26:33 PM

Surely someone here must know the reason Acid Pro 7 requires Windoze SP2? Don't need any suppositions but real facts.
Jack

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:10/31/2008 2:22:00 PM

Well, the fact is it needs it. Why it needs it is rather immaterial, and it's very unlikely for any of the users participating in this forum to have any real answers to that question.. If you're not willing to upgrade to the OS level required by the software then don't buy it. If you already did, return it for a refund.

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/31/2008 2:38:21 PM

I didn't want to say anything but the system requirements clearly state SP2. Considering that XP is already at SP3 I don't find that to be an unreasonable requests. ACID uses Microsoft components like the .Net Framework and SQL Engine and perhaps one of these requires SP2 (which places the requirement completely out of Sony's hands). Perhaps there are bug fixes that are needed. Whatever the reason, it is what it is and you can't change it.

~jr

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Weevil

Date:10/31/2008 3:53:11 PM

Why does it not support Windows 3.11?!?!?! This is an outrage!!! Until it supports 3.11 they should make the Acid 7 free for everyone.

Subject:Acid Pro 8

Reply by: feign

Date:10/31/2008 7:20:18 PM

And by the way, where is Acid Pro 8? AP7 has been out for way over a week. It's old news! I'm tired of waiting for the new version. Do you realize that Reaper releases a new full version every 15 minutes!

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:10/31/2008 9:35:21 PM

It needs it 'because it does'. Sure, try it without, at your own risk. But whatever is you problem with service packs about ?

It's not like SP2 (or SP3) costs anything, or harms anything - part from 'fixing' the known XP 'cracks' at the time of release.

geoff

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:11/1/2008 5:21:21 AM

The problem is in the original poster's understanding of what a Service Pack is. They said:

I have no need for most of what SP2 does anyways, which is security on the internet.

It is that unfortunate that Microsoft did add some new functionality in SP2 but largely SP2 is an "official" collection of BUG FIXES that are needed by some programs. While there is no way to get the fixes without the added functionality, the fixes are still needed. So the original poster's comment is incorrect... they do need most of what SP2 does which is FIX BUGS!!!

I can't understand why people would run Windows and not keep it updated. If you don't like Microsoft or Windows then use Linux or Mac OS X but you will need to keep those updated as well. It's fact of life. Software needs maintenance to keep working properly. You can't avoid it. If you want to stay on an old release then you must be content with using old programs that support that release.

~jr

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:11/1/2008 5:28:04 AM

Here is a possible reason for not upgrading past SP1: SP2 introduced the "Genuine Windows" check process. If you don't own a genuine copy of Windows, you are stuck forever on SP1. Of course, the OP would not be one of these ...

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: randygo

Date:11/1/2008 10:26:47 AM

I had a bad experience yesterday upgrading to XP SP3. After installing the service pack my PC always bluescreened at boot. I wasn't happy. This box is a Compaq Presario only a few years old. Fortunately, I was able to Google a solution using another PC. It turns out some manufacturers have a registry setting incorrect that indicates an Intel processor when in fact the PC has an AMD processor. I was able to boot into Safe mode and change the registry setting, and then the PC was able to boot normally.

I hadn't been too concerned with service pack installs in the past, but now my faith has been shaken.

Randy

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:11/1/2008 5:36:52 PM

To the many who have replied:
First - I have a legitimate Windoze XP install and have the disks to prove it.
Second - just because a program needs it doesn't mean I can't ask why a particular program needs it. And if all you have to say about the question asked is 'just because it needs it', your words were not needed. Just because those who answered as such MAY have been around a lot longer than I in this forum doesn't give you the right to respond that way. I asked a legitimate question worthy of a legitimate answer. I can read the specs as well as the next person. There are a lot of programs that have specs on what is 'required' in an OS that aren't really required. Maybe Peter PCH can answer.
Third: If I have a functioning system running under SP1, why should I mess with it? SP2 had the unfortunate aspect of mucking about with a few programs that ran fine under SP1. And I know there are 'fixes' for those programs that broke under SP2 but why go through that dance if I don't have to? One needn't have the latest version of an OS if what one has works fine. And of all the programs I run on my daw, not one has SP2 as a requirement. I'm talking Sonar, Sound Forge, Sampletank 2.5 XL, Reason 3, almost everything NI makes, Arturia's CS80 & Moog Modular & Minimoog and many more.
Jack

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:11/2/2008 7:17:22 AM

> Surely someone here must know the reason Acid Pro 7 requires Windoze SP2? Don't need any suppositions but real facts.

Jack, We all left your post alone until you made the second post with the comment above. If you only wanted Peter to respond then you should have said that. Obviously no one outside of the development team is going to know the answer to this question although I would bet that my speculation that the Media Manager which uses the Microsoft SQL Engine is probably the reason for the prerequisite for SP2.

The fact still remains that the answer doesn't matter. Does the software install anyway? If yes then install it and take your chances. If not, then install SP2 or don't use ACID Pro 7. Sony is not going to get Microsoft to change the SQL Engine to not require SP2 so the point is moot.

~jr

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/2/2008 11:56:29 AM

I have upgraded 6 machines to SP3 without incident. maybe there was something broken before you started that now has come home to roost.

I usually run Norton Win Doctor (direct from CD - definitely NOT installed !) before anny major updates, to clean out the crud.

geoff

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/2/2008 11:59:00 AM

Try it without. If you have problems, then you have a compelling reason to bring your XP up to spec.

Wouldn't like to try the same rationale on, say, recommended upgrades to my vehicle braking system though.

geoff

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: randygo

Date:11/2/2008 2:18:47 PM

>I have upgraded 6 machines to SP3 without incident.

Here's some more info on the SP3 problem with AMD computers. My PC is a Compaq Presario preloaded with XP that I picked up at Costco a few years ago.

http://www.windowsreference.com/windows-xp-sp3/stop-0x0000007e-error-after-installing-sp3-on-amd-based-systems/

If you have an AMD system, I would double-check the registry setting described or you may bluescreen after update to SP3.

Randy

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:11/4/2008 8:51:34 AM

Ah screw it - I just thought there MIGHT be a software guru on here that would know the answer. I have run into plenty of such gurus on other music forums (Cakewalk's own Sonar forum for one) who were more than happy to answer such a question, I guess there are no such people here. Forgive me if I'm interested in why a program needs something rather than just blindly drinking the Kool-Aid.
Jack

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/4/2008 9:29:33 AM

I just thought there MIGHT be a software guru on here that would know the answer. I have run into plenty of such gurus on other music forums

There are plenty here. The answer is most likely:

So you can run ACID Pro properly in the year 2008.

However - if XP SP1 is floating your boat - then open up a can of ACID 3 from 2003 and enjoy. But I have to ask - what kind of user would even consider an ancient update like XP SP1 anyway? There is a LOT more to SP2/SP3 than just "security for the Internet".

I have a well-functioning AP5 and a dodgy AP6 on my computer and for any serious recording I use Sonar.

Well - look like you are all set. Why even bother asking about AP7?

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/4/2008 10:45:27 AM

We require it for the following reasons:

- Windows Installer we use requires it
- .Net 2.0 Framework Redistributable requires it
- DirectX 9.0c or later is required. SP2 assures this is installed.

Peter

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:11/7/2008 4:42:58 AM

Thank you Peter for your reasoned response. It's exactly what I was looking for, not the childish postings that have preceded yours. Unfortunately, because of this requirement, I will not be pursuing AP7 on my current computer, because as I said in previous posts, I have a functioning system now and too many programs that would go bonkers if SP2 was implemented, and I don't feel like playing detective to make things works.

And to the others who have responded: why should I go with a service pack update when what I have works, and works well, and nothing else I use needs it? Just because I don't have the latest and 'greatest' updates from Microsoft doesn't make me a bad person. Rather, it makes me a smart person. IOW, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Jack

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/7/2008 7:54:22 AM

And to the others who have responded: why should I go with a service pack update when what I have works, and works well, and nothing else I use needs it? Just because I don't have the latest and 'greatest' updates from Microsoft doesn't make me a bad person. Rather, it makes me a smart person. IOW, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Wow - so you received the answer - direct from the technical lead on this project BUT it wasn't "exactly what you were looking for"? What sort of answer were you expecting - one that would somehow get you into AP7 with no service pack?

If it ain't broke - then don't buy it and use what you have.

VP

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/7/2008 10:34:33 AM

There is no reason to make any of this personal.

The OP had a reasonable question. I am sorry I took so long to answer it.

He does not want to install SP2, then that is a choice he can make.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:11/7/2008 11:52:32 AM

There is no reason to make any of this personal.

None intended. Please ensure the OP watches his tone as well. Phrases like "childish" tend to press the wrong buttons I guess....

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/7/2008 2:42:38 PM

I agree. I did not intend to single anybody out.

It is my fault that I did not respond sooner.

I just don't want it to get out of hand and try to avoid any of the negative comments that are sometimes the result of forum postings and the button pushing that can go on.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/7/2008 5:09:26 PM

Sad to abondon A7 nevertheless, especially since his decision would appear to be based on rather flawed ascertions.

Either that, or he has a bunch of extremely dodgy and unsupported applications that he must preserve ,for whatever reason.

But it is his choice to refuse to believe that SP2 (and SP3) are benign.

geoff

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: feign

Date:11/7/2008 5:20:06 PM

Well, Peter, maybe some information can be offered by Sony as to which Microsoft patches in particular are needed to run AP7. I can sympathize with the OP who doesn't want to install SP2 or SP3. I was very hesitant at first also. I was relieved when SP2 had absolutely no effect on any of my programs. But SP3 did. The developers of the affected programs fixed the problems, and I suspect that the apps the OP is so worried about have also been fixed by their developers. It was annoying (but far from the Apocalypse the OP seems concerned about)

That said, I just installed a little program from my ISP that enables my 3G phone to act as a wifi modem. In the install instructions, it specifically mentions users who have not installed XP SP2. It points out the specific Microsoft update that is required to run their program, how to check whether it's installed, and the link to install it, so that the user can run the wifi modem application without installing SP2 or 3 in their entirety.

So maybe a tech note would be in order to assist those users, including ones who don't come to this forum, to properly install Acid Pro 7. Is it only the .NET updates?

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Weevil

Date:11/8/2008 1:26:01 AM

If anyone is running an internet connected XP box and they are not running at least SP2 then they are stupid.

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:11/8/2008 8:08:26 AM

maybe some information can be offered by Sony as to which Microsoft patches in particular are needed to run AP7

It is unlikely we will do this. SP2 has been available for a very long time from MS.

Our software requires it for the reasons I stated. We choose a base line to assure the least possible problems and consistency.

Peter

Subject:RE: Why does AP7 need SP2 of XP?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:11/9/2008 2:24:06 AM

Of course it is anybodys' perogative to not install SP2 , or SP3 for that matter. But I think that is just plain silly.

To my mind if you have applications that are so flaky and unsupported that in the case of some unlikely SP- clash that there is no patch available, then those are the apps that deserve ditching.

Surely by now all complications from SP2 (and SP3) have been identified and addressed ?


geoff