Subject:iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Posted by: KevinJackson

Date:10/17/2008 5:48:51 AM

Hi!

I'm looking to invest in a computer just for messing around with music, and looking for some advice. I was considering an iMac and running windows on it as ACID 6.0 and 7.0 are windows only as far as I know. Any thoughts on this? Would a PC just be better?

Also, would it be better to get XP or Vista in your opinion(s)? I'm happy with AP 6.0 as I'm only messing around in my bedroom, so XP would be fine I'd think, as it also should work with Vista. Are there any advantages to Vista, or XP? I guess a concern is that XP will become dated, but Vista may not have as many drivers working for it?

I really don't quite understand all the ins and outs, but for me a new computer would be quite an investment, so I'll read any advice offered with interest!

Looking forward to hearing from you all,
Kevin

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Stunads

Date:10/20/2008 2:42:24 AM

I would spend the extra dollar and get a Mac Pro (you do not need to get a Pro, but they are the most versatile for plug-ins, add-ins and upgrading).

Mac is the way to go....for desktops. Just purchased a new MacPro that may be capable of hosting Google right now (exaggeration, yes...Powerful, oh yes). I am running Windows XP and Mac OS 10.5 Leopard with BootCamp. Mac customers have added benefits that many PC users do not have access to. For example, Apple support has met and far exceeded my expectations. They have phenomenal customer service and you actually speak with people in California. They also have the genius bar located at every Apple store across the country where problems and qualms can be diagnosed and/or solved and fixed for a small fee, if not free (if still under warranty). As far as the warranty, Mac comes with a no-questions asked 1-year warranty for parts and service. An extended warranty can be purchased for $169.00 ($250.00 for Pro) that extends the warranty for an additional 2 years. This is FAR WORTH THE PRICE.

One thing that the Mac rep said to me that somewhat makes sense is, "Macs never become obsolete, they just get really slow!" Take that advice for what it is, based on my experience, Mac is tight!

As far as MacBooks (Laptop), I really like the MacBook Pro or whatever marketing term they are using today. The term "Pro" is exactly what it says...these laptops are created with the professionals in mind, not the "blue-hair generation" that is trying to learn how to send an e-mail to his/her grandchildren from Shady Acres Retirement Community in Boca Raton, FL! However, for the same price of a MacBook Pro, you can get a beefed up PC Laptop with all the bells and whistles as well as have some cash left over for Serato!

Also, if you are into Music, iTunes and QuickTime is far better on Mac. Apple also comes with iWeb and GarageBand, which makes it easy to create and post podcasts on the web or in the iTunes Store.

Opinion: My arrows point to Mac, but, it's up to you!

PC vs Mac (Laptops)

Although outdated, this article is worth the read...provides some topics which are important for purchase:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6511774-1.html?tag=lnav

You may also consider purchasing a Mac and running Windows on it with BootCamp, like I do. With Bootcamp you can boot in and out of operating systems and run them simultaneously. Beware, however, it is the Mac OS X that keeps the Mac virus free (for the most part) and running Windows XP opens your Mac to a plethora of viruses!

Do not know if this post helped or hurt...oh well!

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: KevinJackson

Date:10/20/2008 3:06:56 AM

G'day Stunads,

That post was AWESOME! Thank you! I've been checking in here regularly to see what anyone had to say, and am so glad someone's finally offered something! Really appreciate your thoughts mate! I've been thinking about getting a Mac and running Windows as you suggest (as ACID doesn't have a Mac version as far as I know), but I need to save up a bit first (whatever computer I end up getting). In the meantime, my brother who's in rehab has just offered me a loan of his desktop PC which has 2GB RAM and 3.06GHz processor speed as well as a bunch of other stuff I don't understand (he was into gaming), so that should pad me out nicely until I have the cash to buy a desktop of my own!

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Kev

Edit: really appreciated your thoughts on the extended warranty too, thanks!

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/20/2008 7:23:12 AM

You may also consider purchasing a Mac and running Windows on it with BootCamp, like I do. With Bootcamp you can boot in and out of operating systems and run them simultaneously. Beware, however, it is the Mac OS X that keeps the Mac virus free (for the most part) and running Windows XP opens your Mac to a plethora of viruses!

This is not entirely accurate. You cannot run OSX and Windows simultaneoulsy using Bootcamp. Bootcamp is nothing more than a partition tool with a set of drivers for Windows and Vista. When you boot Windows on the Mac using a bootcamp set up, the machine is a Windows box. To get back to OSX you must reboot.

Peter

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Patrick@Denman

Date:10/20/2008 9:13:16 AM

Beware, however, it is the Mac OS X that keeps the Mac virus free (for the most part) and running Windows XP opens your Mac to a plethora of viruses!

Looks like someone has been watching those PC vs. Mac ads.

This is part of a misconception which has been propagated by Apple that a lot of Mac users have swallowed whole. There are elements of truth in it: 1) OS X is more difficult to hack than Windows XP, and 2) There are many more viruses written to infect Windows than OS X.

Regarding the first issue, the problem here is that while OS X is inherently more difficult to hack than Windows XP, it is NOT impossible. So the assumption that just because you have OS X you don't need an anti-virus facility is simply false. Windows Vista is a huge improvement in Windows technology in this respect. Regardless, whatever platform you choose, you should have an anti-virus / anti-malware solution.

Regarding the second issue, this is definitely true given that Macs account for a small portion of the total personal computer market. Hackers, wishing to cause the most widespread damage with their viruses, have been more focused on Windows than any other platform. But recent studies have indicated an increasing level of threat to OS X machines as well.

The bottom line is that whatever machine you use, it is up to you to make sure that your machine is actively protected against malicious software.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: nedski

Date:10/20/2008 9:35:42 AM

Kevin, since your first sentence was;
"I'm looking to invest in a computer just for messing around with music, and looking for some advice. I was considering an iMac and running windows on it as ACID 6.0 and 7.0 are windows only as far as I know. Any thoughts on this? Would a PC just be better?"

Yes, a PC running Windows is "better" when running a Windows application. I put quotation marks around the word better because you wanted to "mess around with music" using Acid Pro and you mentioned using an iMac. So I'm guessing that you like what Sony's product does and you know the price difference an iMac and a PowerMac.

If you want to use software that is only available for Windows, get a Windows PC. If you want to use software that is only available for Apple PC's, get an Apple iMac computer. If you want to to have both and are willing to pay for a PowerMac, get a PowerMac.

Apple makes some very good stuff and I'm not knocking their products, however their marketing can be very misleading. Don't get confused by their hype.

I've met quite a few Mac "fanboys" who make ridiculous claims about PC's. I use both. One guy went on and on about how PC's "Don't work at all." I asked if he had ever used one, he said no. Would you take advice from someone who has no experience?

So if you prefer, for whatever reason, to get an iMac, get Garage Band and you'll be happy just messing around. If you want a Windows PC, get Acid Pro or Acid Music Studio.

Nedski,

P.S. One other factor, consider getting the kind of computer that most of your friends or co-workers have. You'll probably be asking them the most questions!

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Stunads

Date:10/20/2008 4:44:09 PM

Beware, however, it is the Mac OS X that keeps the Mac virus free (for the most part) and running Windows XP opens your Mac to a plethora of viruses!

You are right, all viruses are written by some douche bag for their own enjoyment (or whatever psycho-analytical reason).

The reason why Apple was not subject to as many viruses until recently is because Apple has become a key player in the computer market. Apple used to be the company that children learned to type on in school and play "Glider" and/or paint with Claris Works. They had an artistic following where they were noted for being one with the arts (meaning graphics, design, video and audio). Mac became a key player in the computer world in the 90s with the iMac and has since been a Windows competitor for the past few years.

The reason why Windows has more viruses is simply a law of numbers. Windows has been on more peoples' desktops for longer and more people generally associate with them. This also means that hackers and virus creators have had longer access to them and know the ins and outs of them a lot more. Based off if this, there will be far more viruses made for a Windows machine rather than a Mac. However, Mac's recent popularity has opened it up to more viruses, too. Douche bags have been busy learning and catching up on Macs in order to write viruses for both operating systems. Mac users (me included), Beware! Viruses are lurking and they will eventually become a problem on your computer as they are already a burden on Windows PCs. This also goes without saying that virus creators usually wish to take over the world and Macs used to be a cult following (if not, still are). Why would anyone want to make a virus for a cult or niche (usually not a vast majority) rather than the "vast majority" that own a PC?

For the record, I have had three Macs and 1 PC:
1. Macintosh Performa 600: Pre-Internet (still works, gave it to my nephew)
2. iMac G4: Fell to the "I Love You Virus" in 2004 (Thanks Ma)! Reinstalled Mac OS-X and it worked fine ever since.
3. MacPro (Intel): Never had a problem, but I do have virus scan installed from a 3rd party site.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: nedski

Date:10/20/2008 5:33:24 PM

Kevin, Senior Stunads is 100% correct about MacOS vs. Windows viruses. But, as he says, MacOS virus writers are trying to catch up. So if you want to have the lowest possible risk get a new Mac AND get anti-virus/security software. Also make sure you regularly download and install security updates from Apple. Quicktime, for both MacOS and Windows, has had some serious security problems. Check out Apples web site, they suggest getting security software and they sell third party software.

In my own case, I've haven't had a virus on any of my personal Windows PC's. I make sure I regularly download any security updates from Microsoft and have a security software suite that I also update regularly.

Now, all this talk of virus's and such should not scare you off. The most important decision to make with computers is what application software you want/need to use!

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: KevinJackson

Date:10/20/2008 10:13:28 PM

Thanks a bunch all of you, I've been reading all this with interest!

As far as the software I want to use, it's what I want to do that comes even before that I guess...

I want to record vocals and midi files, I want to be able to loop, use effects, render to MP3 for quick sharing on the 'net. ACID Pro 6.0 has been great fun to use, the only problem has been my clogged computer slowing it down. At the moment I have to render my MIDI files to new tracks then mute the originals so I can play back without stuttering or jamming up, that's why I'm after a faster computer (as an aside, will the freeze track option in AP7 help this?).

As far as other software goes, I've heard Cubase and Ableton are pretty handy, and both run on Mac, but all this takes time for me to save up for, and I already own ACID Pro 6.0 (and have been using it for a year), and so far it does everything I need, so I think I'll stick with it, and hopefully get some sort of discount from the full price for an upgrade to AP7 as discussed in another thread.

Any more advice read with interest! I really appreciate you all putting your bit in!

Cheers,
Kev

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:10/21/2008 5:16:19 AM

For about $400 worth of parts you can build a killer PC that will run circles around last year's models. Install your current copy of Windows on it and you're ready to go.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: deusx

Date:10/21/2008 9:58:52 AM

1. If you are going to use windows software buy a pc. less problems

2. In the most recent test regarding hacking. OSX was hacked the fastest, in under 2 minutes ( can't tell you the exact way it was done, but it is true, less than 2 minutes ).

The only reasons there are less viruses on Macs is, they are an insignificant % of the whole picture.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: araefm

Date:10/22/2008 5:26:37 PM

Both systems are fine. From a cost perspective, I went with PC a long time ago. Funny that MAC is now using intel cpu's. Turning more and more into a PC everyday. Now if only they offered upgrades in shorter intervals........

MAC keeps it simple. Good for them, not so good for their users. When you have the upgrade option of just two video cards, that makes manufacturing and tech support a lot easier. With PC's, you have a myriad of choices. That can be bad for people that don't know a lot about computers. The ones that do, love having the choices. If you were asking for a gaming machine, PC is the only way to go.

MAC's dont have the amount of issues just because they don't have the user base. Way more PC's out there. Most pro's also don't use their systems except for their craft so they don't get exposed to the outside world. To think you can connect any system to a network and not have the potential to be infected is just naive. Apple releases major patches to their OS monthly just like Microsoft.

The main thing to do when making a music system is use it ONLY for music. Just the OS and your music applications. Nothing else. No internet connection to it. It is a pain to activate certain apps from a remote system but you will have a DAW that runs well for a long time. It's like using a wrench as a hammer--you can do it but you shouldn't!

As far as OS goes, XP is the best choice from Vista currently, but don't get used to it. Like everything else Microsoft does, it will be phased out and you will not have an option but to move to their next OS. As of now, XP loses support in the middle of 2009. With the failure of Vista, they may extend it a little longer till Windows 7. Time will tell. They have changed the date a couple of times already.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: KevinJackson

Date:10/22/2008 10:49:31 PM

This XP versus Vista issue is a bit of a dilemma for me - I don't want to waste money either way, but it seems like a lose - lose situation - XP is apparently no good because it will be phased out, and Vista has apparently "failed" and may be replaced by something else? I use XP at the moment and have never used Vista, and am unsure what to do, I assume that looking to the future I should get Vista, but if that's replaced with something else I'll be annoyed. Any recommendations? Perhaps not much I can do about this! Once again, thanks for the continued input into this thread, it's been very helpful so far!

Cheers!
Kev :D

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: nedski

Date:10/23/2008 1:24:59 AM

Kevin, Vista hasn't "failed."

I've heard those kind of comments with every new version of Windows for the past 15 years! The exact same thing was said about Windows XP when it was released, now everybody loves XP. ;-)

Microsoft has had difficulty convincing large corporations to upgrade old computers for various reasons, mostly it's money and internal corporate IT issues. But you're not a large corporation are you?

When Microsoft releases their next version of Windows the criticism will start all over.

I really hope this does not start a flame war about Vista. Like I said, I've heard these kinds of over simplified arguments for years. Apparently, similar problems happen with Apple's computers and operating systems, though it's not widely acknowledged. My source for this information is Apples own forums.

There are, however, several things to research and do if you want to avoid problems. You've started at the right place though, a user forum!

#1 Get/buy a new computer with Vista (with Service Pack 1) already installed. Avoid installing Vista as an upgrade on an old computer.

#2 Check out the software you want to use to see if it "supported for Vista" by the software vendor. If the software is not officially supported and you really want to use it, check out user forums to see if people have used it successfully on Vista. I mention this because Acid Pro 6 is not officially supported, but many people are successfully using it on Vista, myself included. "Not supported" doesn't always mean it "will not work" with Vista. As far as I know, Acid Pro 7 will be officially supported.

#3 Check out the hardware you want to use, such as sound cards, MIDI controls, etc. to see if the vendor has Vista drivers. If you go with Vista 64 make sure there are drivers for it. Vista 32 and Vista 64 use different hardware drivers. I use Vista 64. I have audio hardware from Presonus and M-Audio, they have drivers for the models I have but not for all their hardware.


Nedski

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Weevil

Date:10/23/2008 1:34:54 AM

Yeah, do not be fooled by all the anti Vista BS out there. Since SP 1 Vista smashes XP out of the park. Would not go back to XP if you payed me.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: araefm

Date:10/26/2008 9:01:49 AM

Kind of sad that it took to SP1 to get Vista to actually work correctly. It is actually better now, but still a waste if Windows 7 will be out in late 09. Vista is just like the release of WinME. A stop gap release just for Microsoft to make some money before putting out a working product. Assuming Windows 7 works!

Despite the few people that may like it, look at the industry. Sure there will always be issues, but if the industry as a whole does not support Vista, then there must be a bigger problem.

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Weevil

Date:10/27/2008 1:40:47 AM

Aside from perception and marketing what exactly do you think these ‘bigger’ problems are?

Subject:RE: iMac, XP, Vista and ACID

Reply by: Bofus

Date:10/27/2008 3:47:10 PM

I've got two Macs (867MHz QS and 1GHz Dual Processor MDD) but recently purchased a PC (2.8GHz Dual Core.) Main reason: system cost and better support from Third Party Hardware manufacturers. Example: My Yamaha 01X is much better supported on the Window$ side than on the Mac side.

Regards,