Subject:AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Posted by: J Psycle

Date:10/11/2008 8:59:56 PM

Just noticed that Acid Pro 7 has finally been announced. Looking at the new feature set, I am quite a bit underwhelmed because most of the real improvements seem to be things that should have been addressed in an update for Acid Pro 6.

No major breakthroughs going on here, and really, nothing I can see that would compel me to upgrade from AP6 to AP7, especially since I have long moved on to primarily using Ableton Live 7 during Acid Pro's languishing status at AP6 Version D. Two years, no updates, not good, what do you expect?

The biggest factor in my moving on to a new main sequencing program was the fact that I could never get any version of Acid Pro 6 to run stable on my machine (Acid Pro 5 worked fine!), and I have become inseparably attatched to the UAD-1 plugins which invariably crash the hell out of AP6d any time I try to do any serious work on it. Other than that, all I ever really wanted was a f*cking count-in metronome for pre-recording...

I don't see myself risking spending much more money on a Sony product if I have to wait for new versions in order to get bug fixes. Acid Pro 3-5 has served me very well, despite some minor limitations, until it reached Version 6, at which point it became clear that the instability of the most current incarnation was no longer going to cut it for serious work.

I think for that reason, all current Acid Pro 6 owners should either be given free upgrades to Acid Pro 7 ( and here's hoping that that version fares better than AP6 stability-wise) or at the very least, a deeply discounted upgrade price (as in, if it's more than $50, peace!).

Man, I hate sounding like such an asshole about this, because I really did do so much great stuff on Acid Pro 3, 4, and 5, and I am very grateful that those programs were around so I could make my tunes and rock that shit in the clubs. AP6 though, it was just sour, and I'm waiting to see if Sony has any interest in maintaining its loyal customers.

--Jeremy Psycle

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: ohmaya

Date:10/11/2008 9:14:57 PM

Upgrade should be discounted for AP6 users.
I had terrible trouble using AP6 since day one because my hardware wouldn't work with AP6 in XP without a special ASIO driver patch and now wont work at all in AP6 with Vista. AP5 worked fine.

I vote YES for discounted upgrade for AP6 owners! I miss my favorite DAW.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:10/12/2008 4:01:05 AM

Once again, have you folks noticed that SONY always gives a very steep discount for previous version owners? There seems to be some degree of blinders that makes a large number of folks in this forum get upset about having to pay full price for upgrades when that's never been the case.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: InformationSponge

Date:10/12/2008 6:03:40 AM

Since we're talking about free. I really didn't like the last car I bought, I really think they should give me my next new car free to make up for it. Geesh, some of you people just make me sick.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Rickms

Date:10/12/2008 6:16:06 AM

I would not expect a free upgrade on a feature upgrade such as this but Sony should be dinged for not providing maintenance release for two years to fix outstanding issues.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: drbam

Date:10/12/2008 7:20:40 AM

In a certain way I agree with some sort of "additional" discount for AP6 owners who simply NEVER received what they were promised when they purchased the product. I think the car analogy is misinformed because cars don't get "updates" to fix fundamental flaws (not individual issues such as a broken hose or loose part). If you followed the car analogy, then AP6 would certainly meet the "lemon law" that is in place for automobiles.

My main point is that the circumstances surrounding AP6 are atypical (2 years without updates/fixes) and it certainly makes good business sense (as well as common sense) to reward those loyal users who have stayed with a company that in terms of customer relations standards have given them the finger for a long damn time. That said, I'm willing to pay whatever the early discount is in hopes that Sony might have come through this time. However, I think that it not unreasonable for people to ask for a deeper discount if they feel like they want to pursue it and they should not be criticized for it.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: ohmaya

Date:10/12/2008 10:45:31 AM

Sponge -
no one said we didnt like the product - I love it!
It just never worked properly for my hardware.
Sorry I made you sick

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Martian

Date:10/12/2008 11:55:18 AM

InformationSponge>> There´s a big difference. When you buy a new car, you normally get a three year factory warranty. You are guaranteed that your product runs even if theres 10 different drivers. Also, you can get your car fixed in thousands of repair shops.

With Acid, theres only one place you can have it fixed: By downloading updates provided by one provider: SONY. That means we´re all dependant on SONY. Also theres no "factory warranty" or a guarantee that it runs on 10 different machines.

I use Acid every single day, and look foreward to see what the new version brings. I think its nice with the rebate, but i certainly see the point of why it should be free. None of you make me sick!

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: AnthonyTower

Date:10/12/2008 12:03:34 PM

Using the car analogy that has managed to creep up in these forums, here's my two cents.

I'm sure, if programs like Acid Pro sold for the price of a new car (15,000$ and up), SCS would be more than happy to give all of us AP customers (1 through 6) free upgrades for 5 consecutive years, not to mention custom fixes for their customers.

Cheers

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Martian

Date:10/12/2008 12:32:48 PM

Exactly. I would gladly pay more to feel secure. I make a living out of working with Acid, and it´s kind of awkward that i can´t always rely on my tool. SONY has ,without doubt, made a survey to determine which customers buy programs like Acid. The product is obviously made for every man (ease of use) but is called Acid Pro. The price is determined on how much their main customers is willing to pay for their product.

To work as a Pro, you need stability and reliability from yor tool. Maybe I´m the only one whos willing to pay more?

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: AnthonyTower

Date:10/12/2008 1:08:19 PM

>
......To work as a Pro, you need stability and reliability from yor tool. Maybe I´m the only one whos willing to pay more?
>

You're not the only one!

Cheers

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: feign

Date:10/12/2008 6:51:34 PM

Since I run a small animation studio, I buy software from a wide variety of companies. I note that a great number of them do offer loyalty discounts which are publicized only on their user forums and on opt-in mailing lists. For example, ToonBoom, a maker of animation software, typically charges US$99 for each major upgrade to its Toon Boom Studio (the full release is $299), but the forum users are offered an upgrade of only $79 for a limited time (around 6 weeks after launch). This is not publicized on their website, so the hardcore users feel a sense of extra-special treatment. I could list several other companies which do the same, but I won't, because inevitably someone here will flame me for comparing a DAW program to an animation program (it's happened too often before).

I'm not talking about DAW versus other types of software. I'm talking about how companies maintain loyalty among the most hardcore user base, which is usually the most demanding set of customers (as this forum proves). I think this sort of extra-discount for the most loyal user base would possibly be a good PR move by Sony. Especially after the damaging PR of the past 2 years of stubborn silence from Sony. I am also quite happy to pay money for an upgrade to Acid on the basis that it has new features that will help my work...which it does, and is one of my favorite programs for both professional use and playing around.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: ohmaya

Date:10/12/2008 7:55:39 PM

I'm picturing the BIG moment...I finally see the link to download the demo of Acid Pro 7...I download it, install it, open the program, click PROPERTIES, then AUDIO DEVICE...I FINALLY, after almost two years, I see my ASIO driver listed in the dropdown...I select my device and IT WORKS!!!! They did it! AP7 fixed my ASIO driver issue!!!

O my God!! After two years of having a virtually non-working version 6, I can FINALLY go back to using my favorite DAW on my Vista PC!!!

To you guys, it's an upgrade. For me, it's a chance to get back to an old friend.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/13/2008 5:11:56 AM

> I think this sort of extra-discount for the most loyal user base would possibly be a good PR move by Sony.

Sony already does this and has been doing it for years. No one who has registered a previous copy of ACID, Vegas, or Sound Forge, ever pays the upgrade price. Sony sends out emails to registered users shortly after the launch with a special 60-day price that's only for registered users and it links you to a page that regular customers don't see where it validates your registration key and gives you a deeper discount.

~jr

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: MarkWWWW

Date:10/13/2008 5:22:10 AM

In the past, SF/Sony has always offered an extra special discount for a limited time to existing users when a new version is released.

For example if the "normal" upgrade price was $149 they might offer a special $99 deal for a few weeks to people who have signed up to be on their list to be informed about such offers. Details of this have usually been sent out by email a day or two after the new product is released, but anyone who is in this forum but doesn't recieve the email will get to hear about it from messages here. Typically there is a special webpage to order from and a special discount code you need to quote and some helpful person here will post the details.

Although I have no way of knowing if they will continue this policy, they haven't given any indication that they are going to change it so I would expect to see a limited-time extra special discount on Acid Pro 7 when it finally is released.

Mark

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: feign

Date:10/13/2008 5:51:46 AM

I obviously missed the special pricing the last time around. I started using Acid with version 5, and when 6 was announced I leaped at it and paid full upgrade price. Never saw anything about a special price. Hence my ignorance about Sony following this policy.

Now, if only someone would convince Adobe to follow suit!

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:10/13/2008 9:53:26 AM

Does anyone have any idea if this means a week, a month, by Christmas...they could have released this information, just as it is, six months ago. If anything, it just intensifies the frustration of waiting. This announcement should have come with a date.

I have time off coming up. I could clear a day or two to play with AP7--IF I knew it would be worthwhile. Arrgghh.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: feign

Date:10/13/2008 6:18:38 PM

Amazon.com is often a good indicator of planned release dates for upcoming products. It's never completely accurate, but someone from Sony must have told them that date. The Amazon listing for AP7 says October 27.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: J Psycle

Date:10/14/2008 2:07:17 AM

I know and acknowledge that Sony typically does offer a cheaper introductory discount for purchasing upgrades, but keep in mind what I'm actually talking about here.

I can honestly say that AP6 has been useless to me, because I just can't get it to stop crashing at the worst times. I did not have this problem with AP5. The first versions of AP6 were so buggy that a lot of us in these forums started calling ourselves beta testers. There were a variety of lingering known bugs in Version D that should have been addressed in an update, but there has been NOTHING from Sony to resolve those issues for nearly two years now. That gap in time was even long enough to bring about discussion as to whether Sony was even ever going to release an AP7!!

If they released a useable stable version of AP6, I would not have any issue here, and I would probably be purchasing AP7 for just the stupid count-in metronome feature alone.

All I'm saying is that I feel like I wasted money in upgrading to AP6 (not to mention the wasted time), and so I don't think I will be upgrading to AP7 for anything more than $50, and even then, you can beleive I'll be waiting to see how the first 2 or 3 versions of it fare on the stability front.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: dirtynbl

Date:10/14/2008 12:16:51 PM

I just don't get it. I'm using AP6 in Vista with M-Audio shit and MOTU interfaces just fine. ASIO works like a charm. I route things though Rewire constantly. Acid rarely crashed. I use Amplitube, Oxford, Waves, etc. It all works just fine.

Granted, I always keep my computers updated in both hardware and software, and I'll agree that AP6 didn't offer much improvement over 5, but come on, if you can't get this thing working successfully its not really Sony's fault.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: drbam

Date:10/14/2008 12:56:29 PM

<<I just don't get it. I'm using AP6 in Vista with M-Audio shit and MOTU interfaces just fine. ASIO works like a charm. I route things though Rewire constantly. Acid rarely crashed. I use Amplitube, Oxford, Waves, etc. It all works just fine.>>

I can get AP6 to work "successfully" up to a point. I don't know what your work flow is like but I invite you to try some of what I do: Employ some fast moving mixing/editing on a fairly complex multitrack project - moving clips and files around in a fairly aggressive manner, making sure that you're also doing a lot volume moves and don't forget to split a great many of the clips and files, switch plugins, etc, etc. You know. . . the kind of thing that professional engineers do on a daily basis. Then report back about AP6's stability. Odds are great that if you do what I suggest, AP6 is going to freeze up. BTW, don't forget to back up your project along the way.

Cheers

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Patrick@Denman

Date:10/14/2008 3:02:57 PM

FWIW, I don't really object to an upgrade fee as long as it's for a huge change in the product. This is obviously a matter of opinion, but to me it doesn't seem that AP7 is really a huge deal.

Regarding the statements about AP6 stability under Vista, I think drbam is right - you need to really push the product. I do have problems occasionally, but I'm not really pushing it too hard. The thing that concerns me most is how bloated ACID Pro has become in terms of RAM usage. Vista is already a hog in this respect, and a fat DAW program just makes things worse. (That's why I'm using REAPER.)

I somewhat naively hoped for some kind of message from Sony that AP7 would be much more memory-efficient. I guess I'll have to wait until the trial is available to see if there is any change there, but I'm sure not holding my breath on that one. But one thing that Sony Creative should DEFINITELY do is to update Media Manager to use the newer Microsoft SQL Compact Edition instead of MSDE. It runs a million times faster and has all of the SQL capabilities that Media Manager needs. That would certainly help.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: drbam

Date:10/14/2008 5:19:01 PM

<<Regarding the statements about AP6 stability under Vista, I think drbam is right - you need to really push the product.>>

Just to clarify, I'm running XP Pro SP2 on 2 custom built, lean & mean dedicated studio systems with basically the same results with AP6. The systems are different: one is an intel quad and the other is an older AMD but a very stable unit. Push AP6 hard and it will freeze on either one of them.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:10/14/2008 6:18:37 PM

The reality is that Sony will offer the upgrade for a specified price and some of us will buy it and some not.

For me, even though I don't see it as a big leap forward, there is probably enough to justify the upgrade, particularly considering the bundled software. I don't expect Sony to give it to me for nothing.

For others who had trouble getting AP6 to work properly, I can see the problem. Let's say AP7 fixes your issues. You would rightly feel you are paying twice for AP6, and I would say you were justified in getting a better deal (say half of the AP7 upgrade, because you are getting new features and new 3rd party stuff as well). If AP7 doesn't fix your issues, then Sony would be justified in concluding the issues are with your setup, not their software. I would wait until the trial is available, and if it works well for you, put in a personal request for a cheaper (or free) upgrade. However, be prepared to be specific about what has improved and why it was Sony's fault (and not some 3rd party freebie plugin you are running).

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: ohmaya

Date:10/14/2008 9:13:24 PM

<<Granted, I always keep my computers updated in both hardware and software, and I'll agree that AP6 didn't offer much improvement over 5, but come on, if you can't get this thing working successfully its not really Sony's fault.>>

How can you say it's not SONY's fault if the product doesn't work? I have an audio interface made by Steinberg - the MI4. It's a great unit that works perfectly with every DAW but AP6. It didn't work with AP6 in WinXP from day 1. AP6 would never see the ASIO drivers for this unit. I worked with Peter, who finally wrote a patch for my sfasio.dll file that got it working, kind of... It still crashed and stuttered a lot, but at least it saw the hardware. Then i bought a Vista machine with 3.0 core duo and nothing again. Cant use my hardware.

So to say that if I cant get it working it's not really SONY's fault? Peter showed it was do-able to get a fix by writing a quick patch for me in WinXP. All I ever say is that if they have a known bug like this, where is the update along the way? Why should a user like me have to wait two years until a new version comes out to see if my hardware will work with it? Why not an update in the interim? Im holding my breath when the demo for AP7 comes out. Not all of us can run out and buy new hardware everytime we get the urge. My hardware is fine. It's from a major company and every other DAW I own works fine with it in Vista, except for AP6.

Sorry to nag, but I think after waiting two years, I am entitled to a little whine time. I do feel like Im paying twice. The upgrade to AP6 was a washout for me. Im ready to pay again to get to AP7, and dont even know yet if I can use it. I'm not bagging on SONY, I just want a product that works when I pay for it. If it doesn't work, it would be nice to get a little more than "maybe the new version will fix the problem." I love this product and really miss using it. I would love some consideration on the upgrade price to help me feel right about wasting $$$$ the last time around.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: jjbraunius

Date:10/15/2008 3:46:12 PM

Totally agree!

I bought 6 less than a year ago for the multitracking capabilities since I wanted ot use it as my main DAW - ver. 4 worked beatifully and was hooked on it, just needed multitracking and metering to complete the picture.

Ver. 6 installed badly on Win XP 64 (errors out on startup) and still no metering levels for each track?

I moved to Sonar pretty quick afterwards but I might still give Acid a chance if these issues are resolved and a cheap upgrade path is available. After all I loved the plugins in ver. 4 and up as they are simple and effective to use but it is really hard to remain a loyal customer as I felt cheated on the last upgrade, I should've just waited for 7!

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: J Psycle

Date:10/18/2008 12:50:07 AM

<<However, be prepared to be specific about what has improved and why it was Sony's fault (and not some 3rd party freebie plugin you are running).>>

Universal Audio UAD-1 plugins... not a freebie plugin, some of the best regarded, most prolific plugs ever made. The LA-2A and the SPL Transient Designer plugins alone are worth it for the entire $2000 Everything-And-The-Kitchen-Sink-Pak, and I own and frequently use most of the plugs in the line. I have become so dependant on the UAD-1 plugins, that it probably is the biggest dealbreaker that I have with AP6, and is why I've been doing all of my work in Ableton Live for over a year now. That and hours of project work lost because I was stupidly putting my self into a creative flow and trusting AP6 to hold up to its side of the bargain (yes, I should have saved more frequently). Was it too much to ask to have an update that would make AP6 run stable with one of most popular plugin lines around? And it's not a hardware issue. I have confirmed that through the complete inability to get Live 7 to crash no matter what I throw at it.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:10/18/2008 7:04:04 AM

"I have become so dependent on the UAD-1 plug ins, that it probably is the biggest deal breaker that I have with AP6, and is why I've been doing all of my work in Ableton Live for over a year now."

And I have no UAD-1 issues to speak of...using ACID 6.0d - so something must be going on. Either:

1. One of more hardware bits over there must be conspiring against you to give you grief
2. I have just never clicked on or came near any danger spot (in 2.5 years of using 6.0d) to experience a problem.

I am not implying that a UAD problem does not exist - it's easy to find folks who have had a multitude of issues but it's also just as easy to find some of us who have had no issues with the UAD cards and plugs.

So why so quick to blame ACID?

Also - and this a giant consideration - I have recently moved my main workstations right over to Vista 64 SP1 using beta drivers for my sound card and you would certainly think in that scenario - I would certainly expose some sort of issue. But ACID 6.0d has been as rock solid as ever - dare I say - even more so than under XP and the bloody thing is not even supported under Vista.

Just wanted to share a little bit of experience from the "other" side. ACID 6.0 - even with it's age - and yes - it's documented problems - can be a solid performer - showing that the DAW environment (hardware etc) can be just as important as the quality of the software in attaining a trustworthy setup.

Cheers!

VP

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Cheye

Date:10/18/2008 2:04:23 PM

UAD-1 is not stable with Acid Pro 6d and has proven to be the case by others on the forum and even tech support. I run Cubase on the same system hardware with UAD-1 with absolutely no problems. Cubase handles the UAD-1 very, very well. I also use the UAD-1 plugs all the time, obviously they are some of the best out there for sure. I'm still using acid along side Cubase and really like the work flow of the app. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that AP7 will have improved stability and performance with regards to the UAD-1 and UAD-2. Acid will most certainly be my app of choice if stability is resolved.

Cheye

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: Dazzy

Date:10/18/2008 2:22:15 PM

I feel a bit ripped off to be honest, I only bought Acid Pro 6 a couple of months ago, and now a new version has come out, I hope there is some sort of "free" upgrade for users that haven't owned the software long, a bit like what ableton did with the release of live 7 I think it was.

Subject:RE: AP7 should be free for current AP6 owners

Reply by: ozzborn

Date:10/19/2008 2:01:01 AM

I love A6 and for me its more stable than 4 and 5 except some vst plugs that loaded in 5 wont load in 6.

I have 2 uad cards and they work most of the time as long as i use work arounds, this could be my reason for looking into a new host.

A7 feature list looks good but it missed some key things for me.

1. better intergration with uad cards.

2. better intergration with rewire(A6 always crashes my rewire dll.than i have to unistall,reinstall Reason)

3. midi plugs

what i hope they got right in A7

1. midi freeze

2. metrone count in

3 elastique audio

these are cool new features but i would rather have the top3 any day

www.myspace.com/ozzborn