Subject:After Acid?

Posted by: jumbuk

Date:7/23/2008 7:31:45 PM

Given that the Reaper thread has outlived it's use-by date, I thought I would start something new but along the same lines.

I'll pose a few questions for you:

(1) Do you think there will ever be an AP7? An AP8? etc? In other words, is this as good as it gets?

(2) Assuming that this is close to the end of the line (ie AP7 is not much more than a minor update with a few bug-fixes and some minor goodies), what would your reaction be? Would you keep using it until it becomes obsolete, or would you bite the bullet and jump ship now? If you go, where would you go (eg Reaper, Sonar)?

(3) How important to you in your use of Acid are:

- Use of loop libraries
- Audio recording
- MIDI
- Overall ease of use

I'll give my own answers:

(1) I suspect there will be few future upgrades for Acid after AP7. maybe it will get absorbed into another Sony product that sweeps away the existing product range.

(2) I would keep using Acid until it became obvious that I could do things better some other way. I also use Cubase, so I'd probably eventually move everything to Cubase - assuming that it continues to be developed!

(3) - I use loop libraries a lot, so Acid is an easy way for me to work. However ...

- I play a number of acoustic instruments, and I am recording more nowadays, so audio is becoming important as well

- I have always used MIDI, but i still find Cubase easier and more flexible, so the Acid MIDI capability is probably not as important as I once thought it might be.

- Acid is easy and quick to use - which is the main reason I keep using it for loop-based tracks, even though Cubase can handle this job as well. I guess this will always be the case, even if AP7 never arrives.

Your thoughts?

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:7/23/2008 9:46:32 PM

1)Yes I think there will always be a market for acid. Problem with all the other apps like reaper/sonar/etc...tooo many features added that I will never use crammed into pulldown menus that hurt my eys to dig through. Acid keeps things simple...functional for my needs.

2)No idea where I would go. Maybe give up the windows platform altogether and move to a mac using logic. Always wanted to really dig into that program.

3) 10/10 for me in importants. I think that acid needs a scripting feature like vegas. So that the gui will be less cluttered by sonys r&d team trying to cram in all the features to please everybody...I would like that kind of scalable system. Nice and simple.

I really don't understand why everyone is soooo worried...annoyed by how long it's taking sure. Just be patient.

Ed.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:7/24/2008 12:51:31 AM

I think Acid's speed/ease of use is the major benefit, however I also find it very easy to work in Samplitude (which I use for mastering) so if they improved loop/timestretch handling it could replace Acid for me.

I'm still playing with Reaper: have used it as an Acid replacement since March, and like it a lot so far. At least no crashes anyway, which is more than can be said for AP6.

For MIDI I still use Cubase, but for me its laborious approach to loops and timestretching means that it can't 100% replace Acid... actually the pace of development for Cubase is even slower than for Acid so it doesn't fill me with confidence for the future either.

Actually Ableton Live is probably the closest feature set to Acid right now, but it's hindered by the fundamentally different approach to workflow. If Ableton could add more flexibility to the "timeline" view (the one with the left to right track lanes instead of vertical sample slots) then it could compete.

I think we get annoyed because we invest a lot in the software tools we choose... time, money, patience, and being left in the dark about future development can make us feel a bit insecure! Do I need to switch software? What spec do I need for my next PC? Will I need to convert all my existing projects? etc etc.

For those of us that use (or used) Acid to earn a living, of course it's important that fixes and enhancements come on a regular basis. Fixes solve problems, and enhancements may enable us to work more productively.

If you've ever had to switch primary host e.g. Nuendo to Pro Tools or vice versa, you know that this is one of the most stressful things you can do.

I'm underwhelmed by Sony's product development since buying Sonic Foundry, I think the pace of development is slower than the market, and therefore cutting edge products have become slightly outdated.

Will Acid 7 come? Yes, we've been told so. When and what will it be? No idea.

Managing expectation and clear communication is key to managing relationships no?

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: Rickms

Date:7/24/2008 5:45:26 AM

"(1) Do you think there will ever be an AP7? An AP8? etc? In other words, is this as good as it gets?"

I do not believe there will be another version. After 20 months or so since the last release, with not even a bug fix release I need to assume that development resources have been allocated to more "profitable" endeavors possibly where this is less competition such as "American Idol Extreme Music Creator". All joking aside I think the there are so many true DAW out there that have always been or have recently leapfrogged ACID that I do not see much sense in ACID going any further. The battle has been lost through bad management and development decisions.

Yes there are folks that still can and will continue to use it but eventually everything becomes old. Drivers, OS and plugins will be developed that will perhaps not be backwards compatible with ACID.

In the end, most developers come out with periodic maintenance release and more importantly new features and enhancement to ensure their product is competitive in the market. Sony has failed to do that and has allowed many vendors to surpass them. ACID was really first to market with this type of program, hence their market share. Sony cannot continue to ride on this.

Lastly, the product is doomed because Sony does not have the type of relationship with the User community that ensures that the product is aligned with the needs of its consumers.

"(2) Assuming that this is close to the end of the line (ie AP7 is not much more than a minor update with a few bug-fixes and some minor goodies), what would your reaction be? Would you keep using it until it becomes obsolete, or would you bite the bullet and jump ship now? If you go, where would you go (eg Reaper, Sonar)?"

I've already been forced to make the move. Instability as well as performance issues has forced me to move to greener pastures. Although I own Sonar, Traction and Live I find myself spending most of my producing time within Reaper.

(3) How important to you in your use of Acid are:

- "Use of loop libraries"

I use some commercial loops like "Drumcore" and other sfor drums and percussion. Other then that I play a number of instruments and tend to make my own loops.


- "Audio recording"

Most important

- "MIDI"

Important, but only need minimal editing capabilities, I just try to play the parts right to begin with."

- "Overall ease of use"

Workflow is important.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:7/24/2008 8:39:36 AM

I've removed Acid 6 (and Vegas 8, but that's another story), and have reverted to Sonic Foundry Acid Pro 4.0e. It basically does everything I want (I use other apps to compensate for Acid's weaknesses anyway, and I no longer have faith in future versions being able to replace these), and is stable, has no Media Library and no .NET framework (IMHO most apps that require .NET are produced by sloppy programmers). I will not be buying Sony products in the future. I'll hang around for a month on the forum to see peoples opinion, and then I'm done!

Slightly off topic, and I apologise for that, but I have to say that I'm enjoying Acid 4.0e quite a bit, after running Sony's registration fix tool which appeared to scan every file on my hard drives I now have a working version which is fast and stable.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: gjn

Date:7/24/2008 10:02:20 AM

I find your opinion irrelevant.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:7/24/2008 10:13:48 AM

I would like to know why you dismiss my opinion. If you look at my previous posts you will see that I have been extremely supportive of Acid for a long time, it is only in the past year that I have been negative.

I have earned my living by using Acid for almost five years, but now have become frustrated.

If you look some features that I requested have been incorporated into Acid.

I am passionate about creating music. I have reviewed your previous posts and see no passion or original thought, if I am wrong please correct me.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: kraznet

Date:7/24/2008 3:57:02 PM

I haven't posted here for ages because I never upgraded past Acid Pro 4 . At one point I was hoping that future versions would replace Logic after it was abandoned on the PC here's my original thread :

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=1&MessageID=114344

But although I bought AP4 I moved on to Samplitude Pro in 2005 . I tried demos of AP5/6 but by then I was so involved in non loop based projects that upgrading was put on the backburner . As Stuffedspacedog said the loop handling needs to be improved in Samplitude but it will happen . The problem is that Acid the original innovator has fallen behind the curve due to the slow development . Look at what's just happened to GigaStudio . Tascam have anounced they are ceasing any further development of it which is very sad as the original Gigastudio was innovative much in the same way that Acid was but slow development meant that samplers like Kontakt took over and also Kontakt could be used as a VSTi . GVI arrived but was too little too late. The chances are that the sales of Gigastudio 4 were so bad that Tascam decided it was not worth continuing with it . I still have a soft spot for Acid though but my fear is that when AP7 arrives finally it will get such a cool reception that it could go the same way as Gigastudio . Of course maybe they will come up with something that is a huge advance on AP6 and a new buzz will be created just like when it first arrived but I think the market is saturated now and everyone has their new favorites and we are all spoilt for choice .

Regards
Kraznet

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:7/24/2008 5:46:40 PM

"Look at what's just happened to GigaStudio . Tascam have anounced they are ceasing any further development of it which is very sad as the original Gigastudio was innovative much in the same way that Acid was but slow development meant that samplers like Kontakt took over and also Kontakt could be used as a VSTi . GVI arrived but was too little too late. The chances are that the sales of Gigastudio 4 were so bad that Tascam decided it was not worth continuing with it . "

I know, I got onto the Giga bandwagon back when it looked like a Akai hardware sampler. I never ever got it working in a 100% stable fashion, despite countless soundcard and OS upgrades. I bought GS3 and GVI and still use them, but since I got Kontakt bundled with NI Komplete and Kore2, I am less inclined to struggle with it. However, I still have a big library of instruments that will only run under GS so i will probably keep it going for that alone.

It reminds me of a story in one of the english music mags years ago - I think it was about Vince Clark and how he was still using (I think) the then obsolete BBC microcomputer for all his sequencing. If you have a need for a particular sound and you are comfortable working that way, you won't let it get in the way of making music.

In fact, given the choice, I would probably opt for a reliable, crash-free, obsolete but basic tool in place of a comprehensive, up to date, state of the art utility that is unfortunately unreliable. That's why I still use AP6.

... but i can understand that for some users, AP6 is not reliable, so there is little reason to persist with it.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:7/25/2008 12:02:45 AM

I second the opinion on gigastudio... I wasted a lot of money on a product which was never truly stable!

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: Rickms

Date:7/25/2008 4:50:15 AM

I think the death of Gigastudio is a brilliant analogy for what is happening and will happen to ACID. First to the market and initial innovation is why ACID has such a market share. This does not last, competition is fierce, in this day and age a software developer in such a market cannot just sit on their ass and rely on existing market share, specially when the product is not 100% stable. People put up with a lot of mediocrity when there is no choice and when a job has to be done, but in the DAW and looping arena there are really some amazing and mature tools out there.

I can definitely see ACID going the way of Giagstudio.

Subject:RE: After Acid?

Reply by: alltheseworlds

Date:7/25/2008 5:39:17 AM

V7 is imminent. We've been told that again and again.

I just hope it's stable. AP6 really annoys me with its constant crashes.

I also own Sonar 5PE, but hate the workflow. I understand that cakewalk have totally rewritten the MIDI functionality in Sonar 7, so if AP7 is a bust then I suppose I'll migrate to Sonar 7. I can't live forever with the daily crashes of Acid. I'm just hanging on as it is.

I have tried Reaper but found the MIDI side of things to be woefully underpowered.