Subject:Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!!!

Posted by: BradlyMusic

Date:5/28/2008 8:31:17 AM

It seems you've done it.........

Done what you may ask??

-YOU started off with an industry leading stereo audio editor for the PC.......
-YOU created the first audio time stretch loop sequencer........
-YOU created one of the most intuitive user interface DAWS........
-and with all those things YOU attracted a large following of enthusiastic and knowledgeable users.........

But now we fast forward to the year 2008...............and look at what you've done..........

-YOU fell to the bottom of the technology curve on those items you previously created......
-YOU pushed away that enthusiastic and knowledgeable but vocal users in favor of some imaginary forum Utopia.......
-YOU made your user forums so that only registered users can post, thus any new potential customers interested in your products can't post questions before they purchase your products...............
-YOU succeeded in making the majority of your user forums stagnant, boring and no longer useful............
-YOU succeeded in being the spawn seed of a new competitive company which has in a short period of time succeeded where you have failed by listening to a handful of your previous users you chose to ignore............
-YOU succeeded in making that competitive company's forum user base flourish with enthusiasm, knowledgeable users, and becoming much closer to that imaginary forum Utopia.

So Congratulations and Thank You SMS!!! You've done it!!!

I'm not sure if I should be thanking multiple people or just select individuals at SMS, but by all means if those individuals don't read my Thanks, then please feel free to forward my Thanks onto them for me.

P.S. Could the last one out of these forum be sure to turn off the lights???

Thanks again!!!!

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!!!

Reply by: withagee

Date:5/28/2008 12:58:21 PM

Ok...but leave the light on please...some of us don't realize how bad we've got it with AP6.... also, I do like to visit here from time to time...

Some where over the rainbow...

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!!!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/28/2008 1:04:48 PM

Sarcasm and opinion from a user all rolled into one forum post - wow!

Thank you for your sardonic wit and subjective insights!

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!!!

Reply by: LittleStudios

Date:5/28/2008 5:37:02 PM

well, here's where I stand on the topic. I've been using Acid since it was owned by Sonic Foundry. I absolutely love the product. I'm now running Acid Pro 6.0d.

It's beginning to make me nervous that there hasn't been any kind of hint of advancing the product. If there has been hints, please point me to them. I'd like to see the Acid Pro product staying on the inovative and cutting edge side of the industry. If SONY decides to drop the product or reduce the amount of effort going into it, it will definately feel like a slap in the face.

i don't WANT to, but i hope that i don't NEED to start hunting for a new DAW once Acid Pro 6 becomes outdated. I have to much time, effort and money invested in my projects using the Acid Pro product to just drop it because other DAW's are coming out with features i need.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:5/28/2008 7:11:19 PM

So, what will you need to do tomorrow that you didn't need to do yesterday, that you can't do in ACID Pro 6?

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: LittleStudios

Date:5/28/2008 8:00:56 PM

Needs and wants get confused quite often. I don't think that there's anything I "need" to do tomorrow that i didn't "need" to do yesterday. i probably should have used the word "want" instead of "need" in my last post. I'm always looking for better more efficient ways of doing what i could do yesterday, today.

a good example of a feature that would definately help me out is this feature in Cubase 4. Personally I'm not a fan of Cubase. I find the interface awkward. Just the same, if this feature were implemented into Acid Pro it would definately help me out.

http://www.steinberg.net/999+M52087573ab0.html

I would like to go through Cubase and other DAW's and list features that i would like to see in Acid Pro, but I haven't got the time.

I'm not trying to ruffle an feathers here. I just think that there are users who have been supportive to Sony, and I think Sony should show there support to their users and continue to develop their software. Now I can understand if Acid Pro or any other software wasn't selling, then i could understand not continuing it, but atleast announce the discontinuation of the product and don't leave people hanging.

I guess I just hate being in the dark, I want to know what's going on with Acid Pro.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: alltheseworlds

Date:5/28/2008 9:35:40 PM

So what is the original post about ? He doesn't like having to be registered to post here ? (Even though he is registered).

Here's a thought, give $99 to charity then spend the day reading the AcidPro manual. That way you'll have spent some money and discovered some new features in AcidPro. Everybody wins !

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/29/2008 1:02:09 AM

... I think Sony should show there support to their users and continue to develop their software .....and don't leave people hanging.

There is nothing to tell you about a discontinuation of the ACID line because ACID has not been discontinued.

I have stated many times that there will be a new version of ACID.

It is our policy not to discuss the details of unreleased products.

The Control Room feature of Cubase is very cool. I like it a lot. We have had this request for a feature like this before.

I cannot say whether a future version of ACID will have such a feature.

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: riceprod

Date:5/29/2008 9:55:58 AM

That's reassuring Peter. Though I've been using Vegas for years, I've only recently discovered ACID and am glad to know I likely won't need to switch to a new program and start all over again. I really like the product and have been pleased with how much of my Vegas knowledge has translated to ACID.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:5/29/2008 10:17:06 AM

This is all I can muster:

OK, good.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:5/30/2008 9:22:10 PM

Peter , its assuring telling us there will be Acid Pro 7, but the 2nd sticky just hi up in the forum "entrance" reminded me when i enter here,its almost 18 months since the last update. Now i own a lot of both software and hardware and Sony's rate of updating the soft is only comparable to hardware companies updating their machines' internal software and this is just LOL. My Tascam DM4800 has more frequent updates man. No other audio software company has neglected their users as Sony does for us Acidheads.
And let me tell u something else too. I like Vegas a lot , but i wouldn't care less about it as my main focus is composition-remix-midi and loops,meaning i make music NOT video. I just feel that for this 1,5 yrs i 've been massively attacked by Vegas this,Vegas that ,every time i enter the Sony website and in my email as well,and no word for any Acid update,all these are slowly turning me to a Vegas hater lol.
WTF is so hard to make an update for Gods sake? Add a simple button here, a midi bug fixed there, a new small tempo based delay offering,cosmetic improvements, any-funking-thing that would let the users know they are not been neglected. But we are and however kind u r Peter ,facts say that we 've been left alone for 1.5 yrs. Probably Sony was too busy developing Cinescore( lol ) and PS portable media player (double lol) and anything but Acid.
PS: My guess (i hope i'm wrong) is by the time AP7 comes around and it ll be Vista compatible, Windows 2009 will be officially released and Acid won't run on it (lol). Not to mention by the time they will have figured out the compatibility with the new OS ,the next Windows will be out heh.
PS2: I don't particularly agree with BradlyMusic but he's right 'bout Ableton. They have been quickly become the standard in DJ remixing software and now they 're crossing their way to workstation land with much success. I hate the Live soft but if u guys don't implement something like their instant midi learn, clever loop to key assignments,intuitive jamming,etc etc that Live offers, with AP7 u will lose even more customers.
PS3: I buy and read every major pro-audio publication from UK and USA. In every controller test i read,when it comes to compatibility none mention Acid. Like it doesn't exist. In one instance they mentioned Orion eheh but no Acid. And yes,this is one more way of showing that this product is not being used. Now i know guys in Sony are almost deaf but can't read too? All i can say is wake up and smell the coffee b4 its 2 l8. Y'all take care

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Martian

Date:5/31/2008 4:24:35 AM

I use Acid as a professional tool, and believe in it. I really believe that this software can become the best tool for music making in general. I´ve produced 8 albums + a lot of other commercial stuff with Acid (since v2). When people ask me what i make my music on, I answer honestly, but with a little hesitation. Because I know that many of the producers I know, simply don´t know Acid. What they expect to hear is Pro Tools, Logic or something else that has been branded thoroughly through a long time. I have a hard time letting go of Acid and i really try to convince people that this is THE tool. There is one problem though: No serious cooperation selling a "professional" tool, should be as passive as the developers of Acid is. I agree to all the posts regarding the passivity of SONY in this matter. Right now Acid is sold with a short termed vision. Customers buy Acid for a period lasting until the next version comes out. All of them hopes that there will be a better version after that. SONY has the basis for making a long term developing and branding process that tells the customers, that Acid through the next ten years can be their platform. Right now there is no safety. Its like investing in a product without future visions. Like living one day at a time without a goal. This is what I feel about the product i believe in. SONY should look at Acid like It´s like a reliable girlfriend yhat you wanna marry some day :-)

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: drbam

Date:5/31/2008 8:47:22 AM

<<SONY should look at Acid like It´s like a reliable girlfriend yhat you wanna marry some day :-)>>

For me, I'd revise the metaphor to be like you married your long-term girlfriend but down deep you have the lurking feeling that she's not fully committed to the relationship. That's certainly the impression I have about Sony's commitment to Vegas, SF, Acid and especially CDA. I've been using Vegas & Acid since version 1, and SF since v.5 and CDA since 4.5. Over the last year I've been very slowly but surely transitioning to Reaper because I feel like its only a matter of time before Sony drops some (if not all) of these apps. I'm in no real rush on this but the frustration posted here, combined with the passive, almost non-concerned tone related by Peter (who I suspect is just conveying the Sony policy line as opposed to how he actually feels about the products and our concerns), always reinforces the underlying skepticism I have developed toward Sony.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:5/31/2008 4:43:32 PM

drbam,u r right 'bout being afraid of Sony letting go the soft. The thing is though one app they have to let go and prolly "sell" the product along with the developing team is Acid... I don't think they will let Vegas go. Actually like said in my previous thread, its all they care 'bout . Vegas is around 'bout 8 yrs and its at v.8 and Acid is around 10 yrs and its at v.6 hehe... Does this simply mean there is a bigger market for video than music making? Whoever believes this ,is simply a fool. But Sony ( look @ Sony pictures) cannot conceive this,and this is how Ableton established their name and already do very well in sales ( remember its a cross platform soft ). Sometimes i wish they sold Acid to Ableton and let us have an AcidLive app where u have the Acid interface and all the additional Live features . And able to work in OSX too. Like Martian, i 've done 18 singles and 10 albums on Acid. Guys at Sony will have to deal with us sooner or later m8. They will have to either develop an Acid that's stable and has all the modern feats or drop it completely to some1 who cares for musicians and producers. Because Sony apparently DOES NOT atm. Whats that? Cinescore? U gotta be joking ,right? Am i the only1 who feels this app is a joke for Acid users? Sony caters for grabbing some quick buck from guys who are completely helpless and ignorant bout making their music score to their home video? And u call this a professional app? Because the picture pros leave this to music pros and it will always be like this 'till world falls apart. And Sony crew should sit down and develop some updates for Acid instead of spending time and recources ppl like us generated buying Acid in childish apps like Cinebull and the likes. 1 and a half funking years and no update? Sony guys seem to appreciate black humor huh? I got news 4 ya. U either do something soon enough or RIP.Sorry i get carried away,anger has got to me. Anyway u look at it though,the glass is broken . Sony better try to mend or let go completely and we 'll see what happens. Personally i'd feel a relief if they let Acid go completely. At least that would be honest. Cheers all

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/1/2008 4:47:44 AM

I agrees, the OP is right on the money. So many programs have leapfrogged Acid that I think Sony will have a hard time keeping or gaining market share. Sony believes their policy of silence on future development efforts is in their best interest but they are wrong. Go look into the forums and news and show announcements for Tracktion, Sonar, Ableton, etc. you will see more corporate participation and a more forthcoming attitude.

I had used Acid for a while but after fighting stability issues and finding other programs becoming more efficient in handling loop based production, I find myself not even bothering with Acid.

It is ashame to let this product linger as it has.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:6/1/2008 5:04:20 AM

"It is ashame to let this product linger as it has."

Sorry, but that is one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen posted in this forum.

SONY will do what they will do.
If ACID works for you, use it. Many thousands of people do.
If ACID doesn't work for you, don't use it. Many thousands of people don't.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: AnthonyTower

Date:6/1/2008 5:19:18 AM

Here goes:
My guess is, Sony has no intention of dropping AP, SF and Vegas, but do have limited resourses.
At the moment, I'd bet they are still strungling to deliver a strong 64 bit version of Vegas, first promised for Q4 of 2007....so when that slipped so did everything else.
The fact that there hasn't been an update for Acid Pro in 18 months can only (hopefully :) mean all energy regarding Acid has been concentrated on it's next full version, namely 7.
I personally prefer software that does'nt upgrade every year and instead prepares something solid every 2 or even 3 years.
I would not be shocked to see a final candidate (or somehting close to this) at Summer NAMM later this month, to be shipped end of Q3.
Like all commercial software companies, this is first an foremost a business, so when 7 does come to market, the best thing to insure it's long term sucess is letting everyone know it's out and of course everyone who have bitched so much in the last year will hopefully upgrade without starting another whinning thread.

My Sunday rant
Cheers
Anthony Tower

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/2/2008 2:16:46 PM

Chienworks,

Thank you, I feel quite honored. although I was hoping for the "the" most ridiculous thing posted, not "one of the most"

Anyway. thanks for stating the obvious.
"SONY will do what they will do.
If ACID works for you, use it. Many thousands of people do.
If ACID doesn't work for you, don't use it. Many thousands of people don't. "

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Illogical

Date:6/3/2008 10:24:09 AM

The original poster has it all wrong. Sony didn't create Acid, or SoundForge, or Vegas...they bought them from Sonic Foundry.

The rest I pretty much agree with.

AP6 is still the buggiest release to date, and possibly the buggiest software I've ever paid money for. it seems there is no intention of addressing that beyond the inadequate 'D' patch, other than to encourage users to repeatedly reinstall and/or rebuild their entire computer from scratch until it works the way Acid wants, rather than vice versa.

Anyway, I'd always been a hobbyist artist, and with the release of AP6 it stopped being fun. Frequent crashes, sometimes with speaker-ripping sounds that won't stop short of a reboot, are not what I like to do with my spare time.

So, now I garden.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/3/2008 11:25:32 AM

Hmm...

Let's say, by some crazy, funky happenstance, that ACID was discontinued. Would the Negative Nancys go on to greener pastures? Probably. And yet, I'd think those that complain would find a reason to complain about whatever it is they've chosen next.

I've been a regular for (what I like to think is) some time now. It's kinda like listening to a broken record; same complaints, different people. (And sometimes, the same people.) And yet, ACID keeps on keeping on.

Could ACID be improved? Sure, anything can be improved. But that doesn't mean it's the end of the world.

Oh, and by the way...

mu...mu...muhahahahaha...haaa...

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/3/2008 3:23:48 PM

Gees ,this thread stands strong. @mD : Acid would only b discontinued if a Vegas appeared that includes all Acid feats & tools. I know this is what every1 craves for deep inside ,but this unlikely to happen imo. Soft with patented algorithms may b discontinued but the algorithms are always absorbed by some other soft for sure.
My main problem is i paid for a soft that has virtually no support. ALL other music soft developers i own software from,constantly update their soft with new feats and of course bugfixes.Acid has had 4 updates within 6 months period and that was it. U know what? This is as archaic as the Chienworks philosophy:"If it works for you use it". U kidding Chienworks? U live in a mountaintop or something? Because the rest of the world UPDATES their soft CONTANTLY. Acid 6d has known bugs and a ton of missing feats ,and for 18months no1 in the developing section gives a dime for those who went deep in their pockets and spent again for Acid Pro.I believe a contract should be outhere when u buy a software,one that will guarantee constant updates for a periodic minimum time. Like u buy Acid and the company has to develop feats for it at least every 2 months. Most of us here dislike Ableton but fact is they work hard ,having updates almost every couple of weeks. And almost every1 else.

Subject:Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:6/3/2008 3:48:52 PM

Can't agree more with the first post, but wait a minute...

You forgot to say that Acid is STILL addictive, because its GUI is the most intuitive and its workflow is the best we've all seen in the market. What what ? Reaper ? I love this program aswell, it's going to be a great DAW (and it alreay is one of the best)... But STILL not Acid Pro. STILL not this zoom in slice zoom out move and adjust xfade curve within 1 second. No DAW on earth can manage VSTi add/remove/edit properties the fast and easy way Acid does. No DAW on earth has this incredibly logical inline midi editing system.

We've all been somewhat disappointed with 5.0, we've all not been impressed by 6.0. We've all had major crashes and issues with the last updates. But we're still making banging music with Acid Pro. Why ? Because it's the most intuitive DAW ever made. And when it comes to Music, it has to be a no brainer.

The way you can litterally design your own instruments by adding / moving its FX from the FX Chain is just these kind of thing we're still in the boat (somthing Cubase didn't have untill last year if I remember correctly)...

It's not Pro Tools, and who needs Pro Tools BTW ? Only people who can afford PT Mix are really benifiting from this platform. Leave this to the studios. There's far better DAWs out there like Logic or Digital Performer, or even Sonar & Cubase.

It's not Cubase... But they somewhat never got it the "Sony" way. It's one of the most comprehensive DAW on earth, yet to me it's the less user friendly DAW ever made.

It's just ACID. It's one of these rare programs where you don't need to read the manual to get started, and where you don't need the manual to bring your music to another level either. It's just a tool that like all tools has its flaws and its strenghts.

No matter if NOBODY posts on the forum, it's more time spent to making music.

All in All, just be patient. The best is to come.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/3/2008 7:53:02 PM

For some reason you left FL Studio out of your "analysis" also you omitted Garage Band.


Laugh if you will these programs are surprisingly capable and particularly easy to use.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:6/3/2008 11:42:36 PM

They took alot of ideas from Acid in Garage Band. FL Studio (and especially its latest release) is an awesome DAW, but still not in the same league. It's another environement.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/5/2008 11:38:07 AM

@tascolas:

I don't really know if it would even be possible that Vegas could have ACID's feature set. That would require quite a feat, especially when you think of ACID's ability to change tempo/key on the fly and the ability to "pick, paint and play" audio creatively.

ACID is just more musician-friendly whereas Vegas is more videographer-friendly.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:6/5/2008 2:24:57 PM

I can't get Live to assign any MIDI sounds to a track so I can play them. The interface is useless.

But I'm looking at Reaper because ACID just crashes too much.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: drbam

Date:6/5/2008 3:26:10 PM

"I don't really know if it would even be possible that Vegas could have ACID's feature set. That would require quite a feat, especially when you think of ACID's ability to change tempo/key on the fly and the ability to "pick, paint and play" audio creatively."

They *should* be able to incorporate most of this in Vegas. Reaper is currently very close - not as slick and quick as Acid - but getting damn close. Which of course begs the question: if Justin, et al can do it as quickly as they have in Reaper, why can't it be done in Vegas? That said, I'd much rather Sony incorporate into Acid all of the Vegas audio features that makes Vegas so special. Unless its totally a loop based project, I find mixing in Acid to be clunky, slow and awkward compared to Vegas. And, Vegas 6, 7 and 8 are all much more stable than Acid 6.0d. I have to be very careful how fast I work (setting up a mix) in Acid or I can easily cause a crash. Its the same with 3 different systems I've used it on.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Zacchino

Date:6/9/2008 3:39:13 PM

To kbruff :
>For some reason you left FL Studio out of your "analysis"
>also you omitted Garage Band.

1. This wasn't an analysis, it was a point of view.
2. YES !!! GB and Fruity ARE easy to use. Again, not the ACID way. Which make Acid what it is.

(edit) : where is the "quote button" (edit) okay... this is OT again. My bad.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: DPA

Date:6/10/2008 8:06:19 AM

Sadly this discussion won't change the fact that ACID6 is not competitive to the today's standards. But what's the most important this discussion won't change anything related to AP7 release date or release of AP6 updated. The ignorance shown by the developer during last nearly two years speaks for itself...

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:6/10/2008 9:30:37 AM

Wow, 2 weeks since I originally posted this message. In most forums with an enthusiastic userbase this post would have already been buried beneath all the other chatter. But here at the home of "Where Time Stands Still" and "I'm a user that really does enjoy watching paint dry", this post remains on the top of the discussions.

[quote=SonyPCH] Sarcasm and opinion from a user all rolled into one forum post - wow!

Sarcasm only works when there is truth behind it. :thumbsup:

P.S. Hey look at that.....the Sony forums don't support standard HTML forum commands.......Wow a big surprise, the Sony forums mimic their products being discussed on them. The only software forum that has No standard forum command support and the only DAW that has no common drag and drop media support. It seems so fitting.

Please continue on with the discussion and Don't forget to turn off the lights when you're done......

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/10/2008 11:55:40 PM

BradlyMusic:

Sarcasm only works when there is truth behind it. :thumbsup

Sigh.. same old tired arguments....

I assure you that you are as far from the truth as the other prophets that came before you.

ACID is still around, and doing very well, even though others like you have doomed and gloomed us to oblivion countless times in the past.

Consider this:
Maybe the traffic is so low here because the ACID user base actually uses the program and is too busy making music than to waste time on a forum.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

You are free to express your opinions.

If you think your commentary has some kind of useful side affect, knock yourself out.

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: guitacid

Date:6/11/2008 6:36:24 PM

This is quite a spirited discussion isn't it. I love this. Users pulling on the gloves and having a spar with the "corporation" and the corporation giving it right back. It's a good thing.

Hell yer I'm eager to see what AP7 brings. But regardless of what version i have i know that the only thing that stands between me and my next creation...is....ME! Not Acid. The argument that AP is holding up creativity/productivity because it's old and tired is unsound.

Think back to 1967. 8 tracks available. Wow! Only because someone linked two 4 tracks together. Sheesh...and we think WE'RE suffering from a lack of functionality. Then over many many years track counts climb to 8, 16, 24 and then 48 track digital in tape format. And who was it that made that 48 track?

SONY!

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/12/2008 6:04:35 AM

Sony did not Originate ACID.
You are right creativity is not necessarily bound by the tool but the imagination. Although the tool may effect the flow of ideas and the progress that someone can make.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: AAAbatteries

Date:6/12/2008 4:13:16 PM

Well, can anyone at least give a time frame for the next release (AP7)? Because if no one can say anything I'm just going to go ahead and get Cubase in a month or two.

I've been using Acid since version 2 and the lack of any progress or updates lately has been saddening, and rather annoying too.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: withagee

Date:6/12/2008 5:51:46 PM

ding dong.....got a chime in again....

updates, patches, versions, they're all fine.... right now this saddle feels pretty good... it ain't a couch and it ain't perfect but it's almost broke in just right... by that I mean I can tell when it's loosenin' up and just about to give and slide...so whoa. History shows it takes alotta rides to break in something new and although I can get a little sore if I sit to long,...I do know what I got under me!

Is it just me or does the grass look greener on this side?
draw a long breath....the rain's comin'.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/12/2008 6:01:42 PM

Hey Peter , u may as well think "we have a writer's block" and that is why we enter this forum every 4-5-6 months ,whatever. So while the others are busy making music ,us old ones with the writer's block on, are bit%hing bout WTH are u guys gonna give us like 2 buttons more to make our life easier etc etc blah blah. all 's been said.
Cmon man.We 're not pis#ing away Acid man. It's u who doesn't give a straight answer on why u guys DO NOT update AP frequently? Isn't the price we pay for software equivalent to other soft developers? Or u guys too busy makin Cinescore(sic) ? Oh,b4 i forget ... I ve been making/playin/producing music for 27 yrs now and been involved one way or the other in more than 300 productions overall ,including live playing and recording,mixing, OSTs , Remixes, Studio recordings, Discography ,Record Label CoOwner for almost 12 yrs,u name it. I ve got at least 1200 live gigs on my credit as a musician and more than 3000 as a dj.So while i 'm on this "writer's block" do u really believe a guy like me would take the time to speak his mind in such a manner if all was fine and dandy?Any1 can sense your "sarkasm-back-atcha" tone ,but this is what forums are 'bout man. If u want guys to kiss Sony's A$$ i bet u won't find a lot here. Priviledge of the soft buyers is to express their dissatisfaction with the DEVELOPERS .and thats what we 're doing. I am not satisfied with the DEVELOPERS not with ACID. Soft has no life of its own,it lives through the users almost like the Akashic Archives . Users ditch it ,its dead. Simple as that. Now i know i 'm "mule" stubborn but this is bcoz on behalf of Sony all we hear is "there will be another AP". And so what man?I don't want another version man if i may say. That's only asking for more money(sic). I want this one soft to be supported and updated just like all the other world. And plz ,do not even think to beg to differ on this ,because u know really well its a "red card". We could spare all this ,if we had some honest answer 'bout what happened all these 1.5 yrs and we had not a single update.Just an honest answer would suffice. it doesn't have to be a "dog chasing cat" charade just to keep the forum busy by posting constantly ( i can sense that writer's block fading away hehe). Thanx for your patience & cheers.
PS: Rebellion 2 (lol) : IMO AP7 should be a free upgrade to AP6 registered users because u left us hanging on for the fixes that never came. Not to mention that by the time AP7 will be here the "hanging on" time will be 2 yrs hehe. But i guess $ony will want us to reach our pockets and buy the upgrade again like the $uckaz we are ,right? Or even better ,produce something that is not straight compatible with AP6 ,mark it as "ground breaking",so we all rush to buy AP7 all over again hehehe. What can i say... Been there,seen that . Want more ideas on how to capitalize on end users ,i'm full of 'em...Have a nice day

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!!

Reply by: feign

Date:6/12/2008 6:46:39 PM

This is the most amusing thread in any of the online forums I look at. I still don't get it...people red-in-the-face furious that there is no new version of Acid. Why must there be a new version within a certain timeframe... or ever? When Acid Pro 6 came out, wasn't it the bees-knees at the time? Why is it suddenly so inadequate?

Do you buy a guitar and then yell at the guitar maker that there isn't a new version of that guitar, because after 18 months you can't wait to throw away your current guitar and buy a new one? I'd rather keep my old familiar guitar, even if they come out with a new one with the coolest latest hi-tek multi-color tuning knobs.

On the other side, Sony maintains a stoic silence, which I also don't understand.

I compare this situation to my other favorite computer program: Flash. The Flash developers never NEVER issue a single patch or bug fix, (don't confuse their "AIR" update as a patch - it doesn't fix any bugs). By comparison, Sony is great. BUT...the Flash developers continually issue press releases and demonstrations of upcoming features in the next version. It keeps the Flash community salivating (while hoping that, also, the next version will have fixed the bugs in this version). I don't see this kind of anger from even a small portion of the Flash user base.

Sony should at least offer a few hints about what's coming next, and it will keep everyone here wagging their tails in anticipation rather than barking at the moon.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/14/2008 4:00:00 PM

@Feign :hi m8.One lil' thingie:The guitar worx right out of the box - its not just the body and the manufacturer promises to give u the rest of it in an update... get it? AP users/buyers are doomed to pay to be Sony's beta testers when it should be the other way around. If u want me to start the countdown on what feats don't work properly in AP6.0d and what should be implemented in Ap6d and is not ,just say so ,but most of these are scattered all over this forum. A little search through the threads will give u a lot of insight. Cheers
PS: I wouldnt care less for what the Flash developers do m8. Read the theads above. We 're musicians,djs,producers. Proper is to compare with other music soft only ,and all who own other developer's music soft know the difference between the support of others(Steinberg,Cakewalk,Waves,Ableton etc etc) and the abundance of it from Sony.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!!

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:6/16/2008 8:40:24 AM

The world of computer music making has already developed in a short time much more than the entire 5,000 year history of guitar-like instruments, so it's not a great comparison. In this rapid development those that don't stay still essentially move backwards relative to the competition.

Creativity and technical development go hand in hand in the historical development of music.

Whilst you could pick up a lute and record a fantastic album on a cassette recorder, that album would be the exception rather than the rule.

Latest updates to Reaper fix the CPU issues vs Acid. I wait and hoper to be amazed and thrilled by the latest version of Acid Pro, but it's no longer an automatic purchase for me.

And to address why the Acid user base might be quiet, no it's not because we're all happily using Acid, that's just wishful thinking from Sony, really.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Illogical

Date:6/16/2008 1:22:07 PM

"Hell yer I'm eager to see what AP7 brings. But regardless of what version i have i know that the only thing that stands between me and my next creation...is....ME! Not Acid. The argument that AP is holding up creativity/productivity because it's old and tired is unsound.

Think back to 1967. 8 tracks available. Wow! Only because someone linked two 4 tracks together. Sheesh...and we think WE'RE suffering from a lack of functionality. "


Sorry, but what's unsound here is the comparison. If you know you've got four tracks, you work in that confine, and you find creative ways to maximize the potential. Acid Pro is not a program beset by limitations, its a program plagued by bugs. It crashes ALL THE TIME, and I do think that is genuinely stifling to creativity.

It's also a crap way to do business...selling products that don't quite work so that the general public can become beta testers (at their own expense) for the next edition. Actually, I guess it's a great way to do business, if you can get away with it. The question is...are you going to let them?

Rootkit DRM, promo CD's that erase your Playstation's RAM (whoopsies!), and 'professional' software that still doesn't work after four patches...do you really think Sony cares about its reputation or customers any further than the next dollar sign?

I don't.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/16/2008 2:49:43 PM

And to address why the Acid user base might be quiet, no it's not because we're all happily using Acid, that's just wishful thinking from Sony, really.

Other than you are saying you are not happy with using ACID, how exactly how do you know all - or even a majority of - ACID users are not?

Just curious what research you have to base your statement on.

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/16/2008 6:41:55 PM

Well the way I see it, there are so many choices out there for DAWS that the selection process can be very overwheloming. Those of us who have high high hopes for ACID really cant help but notice the pace of the competition as well as what they offer.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/16/2008 6:47:32 PM

Sadly there is truth to this...no rex file support? I mean what is going on here?

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/16/2008 8:42:08 PM

I am interested in knowing why you (and others) believe that Rex support is critical?

I'd also like to know how many of the forum users reading here use Rex.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:6/16/2008 9:55:23 PM

I don't use rex at all. I use Cubase and Acid about equally, and Cubase has rex capability, so I could use Cubase if I needed it.

But why? The Acid loop-stretching approach is a different answer to the question: "How can I play this loop at a different tempo?". Both answers have their pros and cons - I like the Acid approach.

About the only time you might need rex capability is to read in files off a sample CD that has rex files. However, most sample CDs supply both formats (rex and Acid).

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/17/2008 4:58:05 AM

Chromatic slice mapping, tweakable transient points that can be beat mapped and grid mapped for tighter drum performance. The Recycle program allows you to change the tempo manually and reimport to your host for even better transient accuracy. The Rex file performance in programs like Fl Studio, Pro-Tools is great because it allows the time stretching and tempo algorithms to really hit the transients right on point. I have to use a third part application like Kontakt in order to use REX files in ACID.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/17/2008 10:07:32 AM

I have to use a third part application like Kontakt in order to use REX files in ACID.

Why is that a bad thing?

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: ScarKord

Date:6/17/2008 1:27:09 PM

It's no bad thing in my opinion.

I personally prefer the stretching that's already in Acid rather than REX'd stuff. If a loop doesn't stretch right, it's probably just not acidized properly in which case I go and edit the markers manually.

On another note, AP6 was totally stable for me on XP and only slightly less so on Vista. I probably get about one crash a fortnight, which could be as much down to a badly coded plugin as Acid itself. Never been able to recreate it or predict when it will happen though, so just make sure to save the project regularly.

When AP7 comes along, I'm sure I'll be one of the first to upgrade. But for now, I'm too busy making music with AP6 :)

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/17/2008 3:46:56 PM

Producers and remixers are already using a 3rd party app to handle rex . Only real reason for using REX too, is a broader sound library palette ,the rest of it (stretching etc) is already the trademark in Acid, so we would know how to use REX if it was native in Acid. I use Stylus RMX to handle Rex's and totally love it , its one these apps i 'll never regret paying for. I still have to mention though,that some of the rex libraries sound so over-compressed under critical listening, that sometimes can only be used in demos and not in a "class A" record production. But same goes for some of the Acid libraries, so this is a minor fault. Anyway, native REX support in Acid may have seem like an added value to the semi-pro and enthusiast communities who have tighter budgets.
Its a pity though ,Peter only answers the somewhat "rhetorical" questions and not a straight answer on the issue i mentioned extensively on the threads above... Y'all b well

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/18/2008 5:29:30 AM

“I have to use a third part application like Kontakt in order to use REX files in ACID.
Why is that a bad thing?
Peter”

It is not a bad thing however allow me to indicate the following in case you have failed to observe the significant work flow advantage embedded in other applications such as
FL-Studio and Pro-Tools.

It is possible to drag and drop files directly to the audio track interface and those files being REX, ACID, and AIFF will be analyzed for their transient profile and with reasonable accuracy assimilate tempo adjustment to follow the groove of a track.

In the case of ACID Pro, etc. only the ACIDIZED file allows this direct advantage.

If ACID depends on an additional program whether it be Kontakt, Stylus RMX, Izotope Phatmatik, it slightly indicates that ACID is not a complete standalone production tool without the aid third party tools.

I might point here that a major trend that DAW developers are providing "fully self contained" production environment, supporting the RAW formats for sample file delivery, which entails, REX, ACID and WAVE.

For some of us who create loops and delivery them to our customers it would be great if we could exercise our loops in various hosts including selected samplers.

Don’t get me wrong here ACID is surely a powerful tool, a lot more powerful than currently perceived by users who are using more novel applications.

I just find that I no longer depend on ACID as much because I am able to with tremendous ease drag, drop, slice, stitch, consolidate and render audio which could be of mixed formats, be it REX, ACID, or AIFF without the use of third party tool.

The ACID work flow has been adapted by many vendors it is clear that some vendors have even gone steps further by enabling even more capability to exploit transient profiles for custom loop points, resampling and regurgitation of audio.

I hope that you have observed the new Transfuser Plug-in from Digi-Design AIR, since you shall see how they are able to leverage the capability of RAW files to extend the loop / groove production capability of their DAW.

Thanks,
Kevin

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/21/2008 3:53:38 AM

Is it possible that Sony has no interest in REX compatibility because they are a significant seller/producer of ACID formated libraries.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:6/22/2008 3:53:21 PM

Don't see why there is anything sinister here. As already noted, loop packs commonly contain multiple formats, including REX. If your major DAW already supports the Acid loop format (it invented the format!) you would hardly be putting in effort to provide support for a format that more or less provides an alternative way of doing the same thing. Yes, I know there are some advantages in the REX format, but I would rather see Sony work on other features for Acid first.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: mobiledjs.com

Date:6/22/2008 8:56:57 PM

They seem to put more efforts into Sound Forge and Vegas in 2007. AP6 is great in many respects, but with Ableton Live and other DAWs releasing a constant stream of updates (and listening to users) all we get from Sony are "new loop libraries" in 2008. REX format is so far beyond the ACID format when it comes to a tight loop. I seriously doubt Sony would give homage to another format, since it will cut into their loop library profits. The beatmapping in AP6 is a joke, huge time waster.

Vegas seems confusingly similar to Acid, and gets way more attention, so maybe they should just merge the two, add whatever features are missing for Acid, and be done with it. Sony has done a lot to corner than market giving consumers no other choices than Bluray and AVCHD. The easy workflow in ACID is probably one of the reasons it's hard to give up. I can chop up stuff a lot quicker and easier also.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/23/2008 8:18:56 AM

The beatmapping in AP6 is a joke, huge time waster.

Could you elaborate on this?

What would the Beat Mapper have to do to be less funny to you?

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Patrick@Denman

Date:6/23/2008 10:54:58 AM

As someone who as worked for a few different software vendors, it seems quite clear that since the acquisition of Madison Media Software, there has been a significant loss of development resources on the AP team. I suspect that release dates have slipped several times because of such problems.

If the rate of posting these forums are any indication, it's clear that Vegas is the real money-maker for Sony nowadays - it's far and away the largest forum here. This undoubtedly has drawn development resources away from ACID.

I'm surprised and disappointed in Peter's rather arrogant comment suggesting that the serious musicians are too busy creating music to bother posting to forums - especially given that he represents Sony Creative. That was a very unprofessional statement. And quite to the contrary, the degree to which product forums are used is a pretty good measurement of interest in the product. I'd respectfully submit that it's not a good practice to p*** off your company's customers in this way. Statements like that only further the impression that things are not going well in your organization, and it sure doesn't help our sense of confidence in your products.

The simple fact is that Sony Creative has been keeping its user base in the dark for far too long. I suspect the main reason for this is that they just don't have any good news for those of us who want to see ACID continue to evolve and adapt. I do love the product, but it's hard to stay loyal when you see other vendors continue to innovate while it looks like AP has completely stalled.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/23/2008 12:35:06 PM

I'm surprised and disappointed in Peter's rather arrogant comment suggesting that the serious musicians are too busy creating music to bother posting to forums - especially given that he represents Sony Creative. That was a very unprofessional statement. And quite to the contrary, the degree to which product forums are used is a pretty good measurement of interest in the product. I'd respectfully submit that it's not a good practice to p*** off your company's customers in this way. Statements like that only further the impression that things are not going well in your organization, and it sure doesn't help our sense of confidence in your products.

In what way am I being unprofessional?

How did what I wrote "p***" you (or anybody) off?

How is proposing an alternative theory to the same old tired theory arrogant?

"Maybe the traffic is so low here because the ACID user base actually uses the program and is too busy making music than to waste time on a forum."

How is this in anyway negative?

I know that many users are very happy and making music at every level of expertise and ability with ACID.

You may not believe this, but I am the biggest champion of all things ACID and its user base.

ACID 6 is a current product. I will discuss it as much as you want. I will be as factually and forth coming about ACID 6 as I am permitted to.

We do not discuss and will never discuss products that do not exist. There is nothing good that will come out of discussing something that does not exist. If not discussing unreleased products is your definition of keeping you in the dark, well then we are guilty.

I believe that ACID 6 is a great product. I will defend it. I also am painfully aware of what ACID's short comings are. We work hard to deliver what we believe will please the broadest audience we can. Why wouldn't we?

We are aware of the investment, commitment, and loyalty of our user base. We do everything we can - that makes business sense - to keep the user base happy and growing.

We do everything we can to improve all of our products. This is a business after all. If we don't ship a product that is both competitive and useful, then there is no point to build the product.

We read and listen to more feedback from users than you can imagine. We cannot make everybody happy all the time. We have to find the best direction for the product that makes sense. We believe we are doing just that.

You can post and say what you want. I will continue to make it clear to the forum user at large that many posts here are not facts and should be taken for what they are: opinion.

If you have specific questions or areas that you want to discuss, I am always here reading the posts. If I believe I have something to offer to a discussion, I will post as I always have. If I have nothing to offer to a thread, then I don’t post.

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Electravox

Date:6/23/2008 3:00:47 PM

Some ppl here here seem to think that Live can compete with Acid in terms of beat slicing/pitch shift/time stretch.It doesn't.
At this this point I've tried every app I can lay my hands on that has these features- ie.Sonar,Cubase,Live, etc. and they just cant cut it as well-um unless all you are doing is 4 on the floor techno beats-Live doesn't cut your loops correctly-prolly why they added support for rex files.I like odd meters and Acid is still the best choice. I just can't get past the amazing pencil tool:)- and I think thats why I keep coming back to it.
That said I don't see how product dev. can make EVERYBODY happy- so suck it up.I've never thought of Acid as an "all in one" tool and am sorry Sony seems to be headed that way with it but until I learn to write my own damn code I guess I'll just have to put up won't I? my two cents.Ed. PS it PAYS to read and learn how to use a prog effectively.Beatmapping works fine for me in AP-if I were a dj I'd use LIVE. Long live creative music! Death to Rap and other styles based on theft. I make my own loops thanks

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: ATP

Date:6/24/2008 3:43:12 AM

Death to Rap and other styles based on theft. I make my own loops thanks
----------------------
that is one of the most ignorant things i've ever read on these boards. styles based on theft? you call the art of sampling "theft"?! you must be out of your mind.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/24/2008 4:57:19 AM

"The simple fact is that Sony Creative has been keeping its user base in the dark for far too long. I suspect the main reason for this is that they just don't have any good news for those of us who want to see ACID continue to evolve and adapt. I do love the product, but it's hard to stay loyal when you see other vendors continue to innovate while it looks like AP has completely stalled."

Very nice summary, and your comments can be verified easily just by doing a honest comparison of various DAW products on the market.


If anyone of the the Fans of ACID would dare to observe other DAWS they will see how much they are being denied with respect cost and also cost sustainability.

Thanks,
Kevin

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/24/2008 5:03:38 AM

This thread just amazes me. I cannot believe that Sony and Peter feel their type of participation and representation on this topic has any value. Even if you folks are not interested in the product , peek into the Reaper DAW forum. You will see developers and Users working hand in hand daily to create a better tool. Stable releases are made very often, sometimes as much as every day. I'm not arguing that Reaper is better then ACID, they are really two different animals. Also business models cannot be further apart. The speed with which Reaper has development has a lot to do with direct interactions between User and Developers, Sony can really learn from this.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/24/2008 5:04:40 AM

"Death to Rap and other styles based on theft. I make my own loops thanks"

Electronic / Computer music are the main drivers behind the volcanic music creation industry.

Hip / Hop is one of the most amazing genres because it has the ability to drive a melodic idea based a wide array of musical influence. Furthermore if we were to engage in honest discussion we would see that the premise of loops and recycled content is in essence a driving factor behind content creation (from midi to audio).

I am aware of the theft and the abusive sampling as well as the cloning of beat structures, which I personally dislike. However urban music or modern music is driven by loops and can invite musical influences from all around the world.

Thanks,
Kevin

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: drbam

Date:6/24/2008 7:20:40 AM

"The speed with which Reaper has development has a lot to do with direct interactions between User and Developers, Sony can really learn from this."

I could not agree more!! Reaper clearly demonstrates what is possible when there's vision, talent and the will to move forward.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/24/2008 8:39:16 AM

Reaper clearly demonstrates what is possible when there's vision, talent and the will to move forward.

I disagree in your implication that we do not have vision, talent, and the will to move forward.

Every vendor/developer has to choose how they accompish things.

Not everybody will be happy with how we do things, just like everybody is not happy about how other products are developed.

We are very successful in the approach we take. Or sales and broad user base clearly indicate that our approach is successful.

At the same time we know that we cannot remain status quo. We continually evaluate our process as well as our products.

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/24/2008 8:41:32 AM

I cannot believe that Sony and Peter feel their type of participation and representation on this topic has any value.

What kind of participation and representation do you believe would add value?

Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/24/2008 8:49:17 AM

Errm.... Peter : "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen:BIBLE:"
This is probably what u expect from us, right? Well , this refers to faith to God of course and all things Godly and if u think u r on the same par ,ehehe, think again. Now i didn't want to say this, but since u ask,of course its unprofessional implying registered buyers of your software are lazy sods. I tried to answer this statement of yours as polite as i could (the writer's block thing),but still u r on your hi horse.
"Acid 6 is a current product" .Oh yeah? Where is the external surfaces support then? Where is the UAD fixes? Where is the midi bugs fixed ? I can go on like this for at least another 30-40 topics. A current product currently unsupported would be a better statement unless dissing users who face problems with studio workflow and REAL bugs in everyday use is your kind of support. Thanx a lot Peter . Over the years u seemed a very nice person.I do remember Sonic PCH . That was all a different ballgame back then right?
I would like to go on really but i still expect an honest answer from u that never came 'bout updates halted now almost almost 2 yrs ago.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/24/2008 9:31:43 AM

"The beatmapping in AP6 is a joke, huge time waster.

Could you elaborate on this?

What would the Beat Mapper have to do to be less funny to you?
I didn't post this but since u want an answer here goes. First of all beatmapper asks u for the first downbeat. Once u give the first downbeat and then proceed to complete the wizard procedure,everything b4 the downbeat you 've set is miraculously chopped out. Excuse me? Tracks have intros too m8. My workaround is to let the beatmapper finish then reload the audio file without it being beatmapped and manually set the tempo and props to what the beatmapper found originally but this way i have the rest of the file in there too. And of course this is a pain in the a$$ procedure. But this is only the beggining. Beatmapper never finds the exact tempo. NEVER EVER. In fact it can only find the tempo in electronic generated or quantized content and this is only aproximately and not accurately. I have fed it thousands of audio tracks trying to find its strength.Now i come from a background where i used EMU samplers to stretch audio files and loops and any1 involved in this pre-ACID era of sample manipulation knows how time consuming can this be. Working loops with a calculator to find how many sample 2 bars at 123bpm should be and also trying to calculate the odd factor that the sampler never stretched exactly as it said like 8% was never exactly 8 but sometimes it was 8.2% and sometimes it 7.8% depending on the audio type.Well beatmapper is same s.it ,different platform. When it comes to human played tracks well... its a complete mess... I am quite faster chopping human played tracks in sections and stretching them individually because beatmapper cannot understand sections where th drummer speeds it up a little or backs it down etc etc. In percussion tracks its also a complete mess. Percussionists never play straight too not to mention that half the times they re backing some drummer who plays the beat and they can play additionally to it.
So u tell us what good is a beatmapper that only understands electronic/quantized tracks, and when u make the first bar loop at lets say 128bpm then u click next and the beat changes to 127.8bpm lol. I even fed it tracks i made at specific bpms and it keeps failing finding the exact tempo. A reference tool? Errmm, sorry but i can count BPM thank you. Music is a very subjective art. Music production is not however. Its the scientific approach to what somebody wrote guided by his feelings. And in this manner it has to be exact .If u change 0.1 db of a compressor's threshold u may end up with a different sound at all.,etc etc,
Thus,Beatmapper is out of the question as a pro tool because it cannot function precicely,even within its limitations.
And of course this falls to the same category like: '' Ok, its not functioning properly... Where are all the talents u got there fixing this man? So many versions of Acid and its still the same malfunctioning beatmapper. " Perhaps u should employ first some of the guys spotting the mess in Acid's features and then hire the talents to fix them.But instead of employing the 'mess spotters/troubleshooters'' u are kind enough to let them buy it first right? Oh i forgot ,there's always the trial version. Sorry my bad. I don't want to be rude in anyway but if the answer is,there's always the trial version, my answer would be there's the keygens too. Do u want it to be this way? i don't think so.
Now Peter u may be the champion of all things Acid but i am the king of all things LOOPS and i ve been stretching/manipulating audio since the Tascam 4 track. I will be happy to showcase how Beatmapper constantly fails to deliver and show it in the real world too.Just say so.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/24/2008 10:29:06 AM

"What kind of participation and representation do you believe would add value?"

Peter,

This thing is just going to go in circles. What we would like to know is the direction and commitment given to ACID. You cannot release a date for the next release, fine! After a year and a half I would assume at this point within your software development lifecycle you have a clue about new features and the technologies that will be present in the next release. how about sharing them. Berating forum members because they are participating in this discussion and not spending time making music is demeaning and shows little concern for members of this forum.

On the other hand, I can understand why you are defensive and a little tired of this type of discussion. A mandate is a mandate, nothing is going to change in your policy for disclosure. Obviously a couple of dozen complaints regarding the time it takes to develop updates and your inability to disclose anything other then "there will be another version" is not going to change.

I do think Sony is naive to believe that just because the majority of your User base is not on this forum and complaining means everything is okay. It will not be until your next release where you discover how many ACID Users have jumped ship to other products. I suspect the longer it takes for you to come out with a new release the more opportunity other DAW vendors have to draw your customer base away. I mean lite versions of Live, Tracktion and other DAW are included with so many products, that these products have great visibility.

Anyway, I do not believe you are of no value in other discussions, but for this thread what more can you say or for that matter not say.

You have a job like the rest of us. I wish you the best.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:6/24/2008 11:07:06 AM

The "art" of sampling?

SOMEONE is out of their mind.

Learn an instrument, already.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:6/24/2008 11:10:48 AM

Pardon me, but a melodic idea? Don't you mean someone else's musical idea from five or ten years back?

Saying, "Wow, that original melody would go great on top of that other original beat over there!" is NOT creativity, except in a very small, very limited, "Very good, Johnny, you finished your macaroni art, here's a gold star" kind of way.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/24/2008 1:09:28 PM

@thirdnostrill : u r excused bcoz u haven't done your homework clearly. I play fluently gtrs,bass,keys and drums and records too.Also program, engineer, produce, master and -oh sacriledge(sic) - sample. Is it shocking for u to sample something some1 else made? Or r u so naive to think that all the melodic ideas u play with your instrument are really YOUR ideas? I'm sorry i had no idea i was talking to the inventor of the A-D-E or the A-F-G lol. Playing these (and all the others)and saying are yours is as false as claiming invention of the vocabulary.I got news for u and all who think alike. Wake up. Western music ended somewhere at Stravinski even Xenakis or even Coltrane or Miles Davis if u like whatever. Anything u play ,any chord sequence or melodic passage its been done b4. If u dont know this for a fact ,its u who should go learn an instrument m8. Half knowledge is no knowledge at all. What defines one recording over another is actually timbre and not note. I can name thousands of songs which are all done the same way with the same chords and a slight change of one or two notes in melody .Very creative huh? Oh i forgot they thought bout it, meaning they thought how to steal a melody and get away with it. For almost 50 yrs now we re being attacked by the same musical cliches in pop and rock or even jazz if u want to. And when something that expands the horizon comes along all u puritans are ready to fight it because u cannot understand it. I 'm quite fed up with this attitude by ppl of all ages ,i ve been fighting this cause for freedom in expressiveness 20 something years now and still more of u come up with the odd word in mouth and no real knowledge,just blah blah with no clue. And btw turntable is considered an instrument . Why don't u take a quick peek at youtube and check the talent of ppl making music by scratching others ppl's records and see how more creative they can be over your traditional guitar player ,then we talk again.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/24/2008 1:42:21 PM

Tascolas,

Boy this thread has been hijacked!

Anyway, I have not come to grips with this whole sampling other peoples work directly and calling it my own. You know how many times jazz standards like "My funny Valentine" have been redone, I would guess in the thousands, some versions are hardly recognizable. Never the less all these renditions are still titled "My Funny Valentine" and credit is given where due. I hear so many rap tunes that take complete directly sampled melodic, harmonic and rhythmic components from well known songs. The "artist" then calls it their own. I agree how things are spliced, organized and produced requires creativity and artistry but I still do not think it is inline with someone picking up there own instrument and letting it flow. It is a different skill set, a different type of artistry. All artist are seeking to express themselves and touch others, it can be done by arranging and splicing other peoples work or by attempting to create something new.

My larger concern is with young kids that will never pick up an instrument because they can make music by using other peoples snippits. After no one really plays who is going to create the music to sample. On the other hand it is a double edged swords, these software programs allow folks that do not play instruments to express themselves.

On a funny note:

I think is funny that Coolio takes the a major part of Steve Wonders Pastime Paradise and wins a Grammy for Gangster Paradise then goes ahead and give Weird Al Yankovic a hard time for creating the parody Amish Paradise.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/24/2008 1:56:16 PM

Your concern is somewhat a little too concervative if i may say so m8. In my sense its the same as always was, only now there are more choices on how u produce /make your music... More choices cannot be bad. It will never be bad. Tools can be used or abused. The tool itself will never be bad ,whereas the user can always be... Cheers
Ps:Looks almost like live chat lol

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/24/2008 3:11:58 PM

You guys win. I give up.

I cannot say anything here with out somebody twisting my words into some attack or side step approach.

If anybody has taken offense, I appologize and will refrain from getting involved in the future.

I will be back when the next version of ACID hits the streets.

See you then.

Thanks,
Peter

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/24/2008 3:33:40 PM

I forgot to say that no1 can use other ppl's recorded audio without paying the usage rights to the owner(s) of the sample and that is only if there is an agreement between the sample owner(s) and the sample user. Also the sample user has to mention where he got the sample(s) from . "The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony" was a platinum record in UK and ended up with the Rolling Stones rights owner taking all the money from it because the Verve sampled the strings section from a Rolling Stones record and the owner of the rights would not give permission .Verve's only mistake is they released it anyway. If i was them i would remake with a quartet ,change a couple notes and give a big FU to these a$$holes that halt creativity with their "above all" stance. Anyone who's heard the song and the original Stones track knows they don't resemble each another. In fact they 're two entirely different songs except the string part sampled. This didn't help Verve at all though,the money from the record was used to pay the lawsuit and the rest for sampling rights payment and it actually ended up causing the braking up of the band. Law and Justice is actually 2 different things.Once u get the grasp of this,everything is more clear.There is sampling which is offensive (MC Hammer /Vanilla Ice) but can be funny, and sampling which is so creative -just like the Verve case - that blows the original track the sample was taken from away.I hear everyday 12" white/black labels from dance producers where they sample any record known to man and they get away with it,even with sampling MJ himself lol. The catch is these releases are only been done to 500 or 1000 vinyl copies so no1 from the industry cares 'bout them,because to sue the "athors" it would take more money than what they would ask for. If it was for one of these records to make it bigtime then the industry sharks would be all over the place trying to make the biggest profit they can from something they didn't actually spend one single moment to produce. NormanCook aka FatboySlim had a project in the late 80s called Beats International. He made a dance hit cover of SOS Band's - Just Be Good To Me", named "Dub be good to me" and used a sampled bassline from the Clash. He ended up with with the SOSBand's representative and the Clash representative both actually asking for 100% rights on his track ,making it a 200% on the same track lol. As u have guessed he made no money on this record as well. Later days sample usage has become more clever though. Daft Punk sold 1 million records with their project Stardust " Music Sounds Better With You".
Their trademark noisy sampled beats is all over that record but what made the record so big was just the looping vocal and of course a small gtr snippet which is actually taken from a Chaka Khan record. They cleared it ( clearence is the permission to use the sample) from what i know and everybody's happy. There's much more to sampling than what it seems at first. Just don't be ready to say no when u have no clear picture of what it actually stands for and what u can do or not with it. Again,i 'm sorry to crowd the thread ,somethings have to be said. U all be well

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/24/2008 3:54:12 PM

Peter,u did imply we have nothing better to do than post somehow angry rants,meaning we 're lazy or whatever this may mean. Your implication in this forum is critical as u r the only voice from the OtherSide here. New users rely heavily on your answers and not mine or anyone's since yours are official ,ours aren't. Then again u still refrain from real answers to somehow pi#*d off users like me. Not even a comment on the beatmapper answer thingie? Respect to what u 've achieved so far by helping ppl is given from me and i believe the rest of us. The last 2 yrs though ,is another story . No updates is no support .Acknowledging the bugs does not wipe them out and saying its gonna be addressed in a future version makes it only more frustrating because that is asking for more money. And that is not how the industry flows m8, sadly.Still ,if u feel u have to go your decision is respected by me but i know for sure it would be better for the newer users, that us pi$%d off users to just leave this place 'till something new comes up ,than u leaving here.And this is what i ll just do ,making your life easier . Bye all - u all b well - see u when AP7 hits the streets ( errr in 3 billion yrs -just joking) .Its been nice -peace and love to all

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/24/2008 4:05:35 PM

Come on Peter we will all be old and gray by then. Obviously your particpation is needed and welcome. We might not like what you have to say all the time but you are our only link to Sony. I'm sure your particpation is appreciated by many.

Although I take music very serious we are not curing aids here or eliminating world starvation. Discussion is good. Venting is good.

We all hold hope that a great new versionwill come out no matter how bitter some of us sound. Why else would we continue to bitch.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:6/24/2008 8:04:01 PM

thirdnostril hang on dude...

Aren't we all sampling to extent when we use Sony ACID loops? I mean it seams to be that sampling or utilizing pre-existing audio gets confused, a slice, a half, a 3rd it is a sample right?

I play bass and I use a tool to convert my bass performance to midi, and then I feed that into Kontakt and it is crazy... I play an instrument and I play a sampler which is well beyond the compression of most people.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:6/25/2008 8:31:30 AM

"Subject: RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!
Reply by: SonyPCH
Date: 6/24/2008 11:39:16 AM

Reaper clearly demonstrates what is possible when there's vision, talent and the will to move forward.

I disagree in your implication that we do not have vision, talent, and the will to move forward.

Every vendor/developer has to choose how they accompish things.

Not everybody will be happy with how we do things, just like everybody is not happy about how other products are developed.

We are very successful in the approach we take. Or sales and broad user base clearly indicate that our approach is successful.

At the same time we know that we cannot remain status quo. We continually evaluate our process as well as our products.

Peter"

You are correct, different vendors choose how they accomplish things" but avendors also differ in want they want to accomplish. You judge success on number of sales. How about quality of the product? Number of sales is sometimes a matter of marketing or being the first one to market.

Here is what Cockos, the developers of Reaper see as their goal:

"Cockos Incorporated was founded in 2004, beginning an effort to build quality software that would benefit people throughout the world.

The goal of Cockos is to develop software sustainably while preventing profit rationale from forcing engineering compromises. By doing so, we can keep our product visions intact, giving maximum benefit to our users."

A pretty deferent story from Sony's.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:6/25/2008 5:58:37 PM

"Cockos Incorporated was founded in 2004, beginning an effort to build quality software that would benefit people throughout the world.

The goal of Cockos is to develop software sustainably while preventing profit rationale from forcing engineering compromises. By doing so, we can keep our product visions intact, giving maximum benefit to our users."

And if Apple, Microsoft or Sony etc came and offered him millions of dollars to sign over the rights to Reaper, he would say no, on the grounds that this would not "benefit people throughout the world"? Yeah, right.

Acid was once owned by Sonic Foundry, which had a lot of similarities with Cockos. I don't blame the owners of SF for building up a suite of good products and then selling to Sony for a good price (I hope they did well out of it). My point is that nice words and vision statements don't mean much when it comes to the crunch.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: PipelineAudio

Date:6/25/2008 6:01:40 PM

Though we may poke fun from time to time, there are still big time Peter Haller and Dave Hill fans at the Cockos side. Peter had a big hand in showing that you didn't need 4 million menus, or 95 mouse tools in order to accomplish an amazing variety of tasks. To me, Vegas will always be the original WYSIWYG audio app

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: PipelineAudio

Date:6/26/2008 1:38:06 AM

"
And if Apple, Microsoft or Sony etc came and offered him millions of dollars to sign over the rights to Reaper, he would say no, on the grounds that this would not "benefit people throughout the world"? Yeah, right.
"

You should probably research this a bit more

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/26/2008 6:19:37 AM

Darnit,lost the flight to Santorini . One last angry rant then. Two things are sure:
1. Developers of pro soft who do not listen or support their pro users are doomed to oblivion. U don't wanna fix and don't wanna talk about it? Ok , it;s your funeral ...
2. Anti-samplists DO NOT belong in this forum. WTF r u doing here? There is the Sibelius forum for ya Mr.Musician ( lol) . But oh .. gulps... Sibelius works closely with Kontakt (sacriledge ! it's a sampler) .This leaves us with what ...lemme think... I know... Marshall don't make a sampler.They 're definitely not using Satan's samples ... oh yes and Fender too. Get a life for God's sake...
U all have a nice and productive summer guys .Nice speakin with all of u
PS: Peter, i never found your personal posts offensive - ironic sometimes maybe but that's same as with most of us who are old bitc*es in a cruel world lol . I take this time to say i 'm sorry if i 've been offensive to u and apologize if harm was done. For the sake of the newer users though u have to lighten up and stay around as the helping voice u always were.Peace and love

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Electravox

Date:6/26/2008 4:10:35 PM

that is one of the most ignorant things i've ever read on these boards. styles based on theft? you call the art of sampling "theft"?! you must be out of your mind.


Yup. Now pull up your pants and learn to play an instrument, sing, speak, spell and do a little basic math. Rap is to music what TV dinners are to food.

It used to be that drum machines were anethaema-(not true there is a total art to programming too)-now a lot of people can't even be bothered to do that- it's lazyness and pure ignorance.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:6/27/2008 5:19:51 AM

i have to agree that Sony have dropped the ball with Acid.

I used acid for years when it was the only looping tool out there, and it was great, but after v3 (since Sony took over) i have been gravely disppointed unfortunatley..

The time between updates is way too long i think (and so do others by the sounds of it) especially in this market of DAW's.

Its a real shame, as Acid was the leader, now we have Protools that has elastic time, as well as Cubase, and of course Ableton Live.

I suppose there will be a v7 but as to what it will contain im not sure, i'm afraid I wont hold out much hope as my v6 crashes too much for a working DAW. And with talk on here of people thinking that Sony may drop it and concentrate on Vegas (not a Sony point of view, I know Peter!) it still doesnt bode well, and can understand why many working producers/musicians have migrated to another sequencer.

Add to the fact that we dont really get told much, as Peter is our only source of any info on this forum for news, or fixes that we encounter on here direct from Sony, and as others have said I agree that his replies and comments leave a lot to be desired sometimes! as his replies are very blunt and he sounds totally fed up with the whole thing!!!

Just my 2c.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:6/27/2008 10:54:43 AM

I don't use loops. I record my own music.

Drum loops are one thing. It's pretty much like using a drum machine, which is sometimes necessary because of the space required for drums.

But everything else is me. And people who use pre-recorded melodies, harmonies, or song structures are not creative in the same sense as someone who makes their own sounds.

And sometimes, I play the drum machine manually, so there's not any automation at all.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:6/27/2008 11:01:37 AM

Tascolas spewed:

"Get a life for God's sake..."

Satan doesn't sample. He fiddles, remember? And uh, sorry, kid, but between the guy who plays four instruments and the guy who uses snippets of what the first guy does to cobble together dance mixes, I think it's the former who has more of a life. Your arrogance is astounding. Another way of saying the hilarious "anti-samplist" is MUSICIAN.

Learn an instrument, for God's sake.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:6/28/2008 10:27:17 AM

Wow! I hadn't seen this thread in a while, and I'm surprised to see how negative it has become.

Advice to folks who read this: Don't take it too seriously.

As for me, I'm going to go make some music with my Acid Pro 6.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/28/2008 11:39:45 AM

Sorry to re-post from the beginning.Nope Dkeenum, they have to take it seriously. Truth has to be heard. Arrogant is the person who while the world around him evolves and moves on, he insists in his stubborness to try and bury new ideas and ways of expression just bcoz he can't understand 'em. I'm surprised attitudes like thirdnostrill's still exist.First of all u didnt even understood the irony in "Satan's samples" , so i leave it be ,maybe when u grow up. Oh me the kid i'm 43 and been playin music 30 yrs . And produced or played 6 albums in the 80s all gtrs,bass and drums under the new-wave/rock genre , 4 done on fostex E-16 and 2 done on Otari 24track. U say "everything else is me" .Oh yeah ? U resembling who moR%n? Slash or Bono or whoever? For your info mor%n i 've a degree in harmony and fuga and i wouldn't care less what u say but it's the kids watching these threads i care 'bout . Why don't u go burn some sampling witch like the dark ages apostle u r lol?
I'm funking off this forum as there's no point in hanging on - maybe some will like it anyway so bye and this is final

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: alltheseworlds

Date:6/29/2008 6:23:15 AM

Departing tascolas ? Great ! And goodbye to a big slice of greivance.

And I think Peter - who has solved many a problem on this forum with patience and good grace - will be back very soon. After all he did say he'd back when v7 was released ;-)

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: tascolas

Date:6/29/2008 8:21:48 AM

Hey- no offense taken - i did protest on this whole Acid support thing and the rest. When soft update is laid this far back u can do 2 things :sit on ur sorry a$$ and kiss sony's behind or take a stand. Which one r u? And of course this is rhetorical,i can tell which side u r on. Peace
Ps: This was sent on sms to be posted as i'm on vacation, faik u can ban me,np :-)

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/30/2008 12:15:52 PM

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:6/30/2008 3:19:38 PM

[Quote=SonyPCH]Consider this:
Maybe the traffic is so low here because the ACID user base actually uses the program and is too busy making music than to waste time on a forum.[/Quote]

I'm just hoping that you don't actually believe that, because it's an obvious admission of denial.

So Consider This in Return:
There are many forums for a lot of products. Some of them even include vehicle specific forums where users of a specific make/model of vehicle will chat and share information about their vehicle and share custom modifications with each other and post guides for other users in these kinds of forums. These forums exist because, these people are truly enthusiastic about their purchase of the product, in this case the vehicle. These forums are active because they love to talk about their purchase and share with others the things they have done with their vehicle. In most cases they do this because they can't get enough elsewhere to express their enthusiasm. So if I was going to actually believe your comments, then that would mean that the forum I just used as an example would mean that these people don't actually drive their vehicle as much as everyone else.....LOL!!! You make me laugh, because it's the exact opposite. These people are driving their vehicles and additionally spending time in the forums because they are TRULY enthusiastic about the product they purchased. This is something that does not exist in this forum, because there is nothing to be enthusiastic about with Acid, because the product has no longer developed into something that gives the users something to truly be enthusiastic about since all the other similar products have surpassed it while Acid continues to be the last thought on anyone's mind when it comes to technology leading DAW software.

I will further go on to say, that ACID is hardly ever discussed by anyone in music forums as a viable DAW option any longer. I have actually seen posts where people in music forums are almost ashamed to admit that they use the Acid software.

Since you're no longer going to be posting in this forum for awhile, then why don't you do yourself a favor so you can see how Acid is viewed in the real world. Go do some googling on "DAW comparison shootouts" and see if Acid is even "considered" worth while to include in many of the comparison DAW shoot outs. I bet you'll find tons of comparison shoot out reviews between DAWs like Reaper, Sonar, Cubase, and Samplitude. You'll even see more reviews of Fruity Loops Studio, Live and Energy XT. Acid WILL be one of...if not the least reviewed DAW out there where you will find hardly ANY comparison reviews. Why is that??? Because, if hardly anyone is using the product and the product is old and stale, then why would anyone waste their time doing a comparison review that no one is going to pay attention to anyways?

Additionally while you're out venturing on the net, make sure you venture on over to the Reaper forums(www.reaper.fm) and see how an enthusiastic forum thrives where you see users and the developers working hand and hand together. In fact the users are so enthusiastic about Reaper, you have users that have volunteered to write the manual for the software and making tutorial videos on using the software. There are even software programmer users at the Reaper forums writing specific user requested plugins for Reaper. You even have users creating Tshirts and other marketing material for the product because people are "requesting" to buy Tshirts. You have users that are writing software scripts for the Reaper forums, to make the forums more useful. 2 users at the Reaper forums worked together and wrote a software script for their feature request forum which automatically categorizes feature suggestions as well as a feature suggestion user support count, to give a temperature gage to the developers as to what the "Users" would like to see the most in future feature development. Sony doesn't even have a "Feature Suggestion" forum for users to make suggestions....because it's obvious they just don't care what the users want. These are USERS in the Reaper forums that are so enthusiastic about the product that the USERS are doing FREE work by assisting with writing the documentation, the marketing, and further even developing the product by contributing with their own software writing skills......and they're succeeding where Sony is failing, where Sony has people that are paid to do the same duties as the Reaper users but the Reaper users are happy to do it for free because they want to be part of the success of the product.

Now that's not an "OPINION".....these are facts and is a major reason why Reaper has surpassed Acid on many fronts within a 2 year period. If I was you, I would no longer post in your own forums either. Everyone from the top to the bottom at Sony Creative Software should be ashamed at the progress that Acid has made over the past 8+ years compared to other similar products. It's best you go bury your head in the sand.....there's more dignity in it.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: buckaroo

Date:7/1/2008 3:39:05 AM

I agree totally, sony should look at other forums and what users are using... and Acid is always bottom of the pile unfortunatley..

Thanks (to the poster on here) who suggested Reaper! just trying it out and it looks and behaves just like Acid! and can be used on OSX!

It looks a very nifty program, just working out if you have the U as the reverse key or if that can be done by any shortcut? as well as some other Acid tricks that im used too, but all in all it behaves virtually the same!!

it's a shame as this is what Acid should have been by now, and there is a big fanbase on the net for Reaper, so its gaining ground

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: Rickms

Date:7/1/2008 7:27:58 AM

I've given up on ACID, Sonar and Traktion and am using Reaper exclusively. I've never been able to work so fast. I guess the workflow and routing just works for me. Although this is the case I would not bother participating in this forum unless I held some thread of hope that ACID may be upgraded to a more stable and feature rich application.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:7/1/2008 9:00:05 AM

"Arrogant is the person who while the world around him evolves and moves on, he insists in his stubborness to try and bury new ideas and ways of expression just bcoz he can't understand 'em."

That's a textbook, predictable response. I think what you're doing is inferior to real music-making, and so of course, I "don't understand." How pathetic. One wonders why you responded at all.

"I'm surprised attitudes like thirdnostrill's still exist.First of all u didnt even understood the irony in "Satan's samples" , so i leave it be ,maybe when u grow up."

I didn't even understood? Oh, my, I'm all misconscrewed!

Your private in-joke did, yes, go right over my head. Strange as it may seem, I'm not that broken up about it. And, kid? You know you're grown up when you start bothering to spell out the word "you".

"Oh me the kid i'm 43 and been playin music 30 yrs . And produced or played 6 albums in the 80s all gtrs,bass and drums under the new-wave/rock genre , 4 done on fostex E-16 and 2 done on Otari 24track."

But never bothered to learn basic punctuation, spelling, grammar, and the other elements of written English that denote an educated person.

And you know a BS artist when he starts trying to cram his "resume" into a forum post.

"U say "everything else is me" .Oh yeah ? U resembling who moR%n? Slash or Bono or whoever?"

Someday, they will invent a computer program that can decipher that sentence. Until then, I will chalk it up to jealous sputtering.

"For your info mor%n i 've a degree in harmony and fuga"

A degree in harmony? From where, the University of Your Mind?

And is that "fugue" you're trying to say? Because they don't give degrees in that, either.

"i wouldn't care less what u say but it's the kids watching these threads i care 'bout ."

Yeah, you're not sitting there in your underwear, red and shaking with rage at my anti-sampling heresy. Not at ALL. It's for da CHIWDWEN that you're all concerned.

"Why don't u go burn some sampling witch like the dark ages apostle u r lol?"

More like holding back the barbarians so Rome won't fall. You know no one outside rap would use someone else's sounds as their own, right? Classical, rock, jazz--they all have too much pride.

Anyway, glad to seee you go, please don't come back!

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: drew_

Date:7/1/2008 4:58:50 PM

"it's a shame as this is what Acid should have been by now"

Well.. obviously not in Sony Creative Software's opinion - otherwise I'm sure it would have been!

You have to respect their choice of development strategy. It's like the Vegas audio forum all over again.

Can't you just be happy with REAPER and get over ACID? I did.

Remember it is what it is. You don't HAVE to use it.. hoorah.

Be happy!

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kbruff

Date:7/2/2008 6:16:51 AM

Seek first to understand then to be understood.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:7/3/2008 10:26:44 PM

Second that! Very happy with Reaper here!

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kitekrazee

Date:7/4/2008 6:17:35 PM

I tend to get more annoyed at products that have an annual upgrade like Finale and Sonar. Why fix any bugs in the current version when you can fix them in the next version and have people pay for it.
I don't think it's such a bad thing they haven't come out with Acid 7.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: kitekrazee

Date:7/4/2008 6:35:01 PM

Before anyone starts praising Reaper, try doing some serious MIDI work with it. It's got a loooooooooong way to go.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: stuffedspacedog

Date:7/6/2008 8:57:58 AM

Never really used Acid for MIDI (I use Cubase for that)... found it very intuitive and straightforward on Reaper though, but yes not as full featured as Acid. Last full album produced with Acid was April 2007 (have done three since). Last commission produced with Acid was Jan 2008, basically a re-edit of a piece originally produced in Acid anyway, so export/import made no sense.

Subject:RE: Congratulations Sony!!!! You've done it!

Reply by: dirtynbl

Date:7/14/2008 7:40:01 PM

BEATMAPPING = a joke. I agree.

Peter, here's how you fix it. Its the coolest concept, except, it doesn't work. Sure in most programmed hip hop you can get it to work very well, but anything not explicitly recorded to a perfect click track ultimately goes off tempo. There's no way to say, the tempo is good for these three measures and then readjust the tempo.

So here's what I propose, let beatmapper work, but then allow us to go in an adjust downbeats. I know we can sort of do this now, but if you adjust one downbeat it changes all of them. Sometimes its just one or two that are off, sometimes its the rest of the song. Frankly I'd be happy to be able to select each down beat manually for the WHOLE SONG because 9 times out of 10 Acid screws it up and I have to chop the song in Sound Forge and use time stretch to make each measure the same length for remixes. Isn't that was BEATMAPPER was supposed to fix? Its amazing that BEATMAPPER hasn't changed since like Acid 2.0 and still is a failure, but is so close to being sooooo cool.

That said, I want to drag tracks all over the place and drag media from one track to another really easily, just like Vegas. Vegas is phenomenal and I understand the need for ACIDized tracks, but let us choose. I could have a few ACIDized tracks and then some Vegas style audio tracks.

There's tons more (sidechaining), but those would be huge changes.

I still use AP6, its getting old, I feel like there's some cool features, but I think its pretty stable. The UI is incredible. I really want to switch to something with some updated features, but everytime I try other stuff the UI's just piss me off. That said, Reaper is a pretty good competitor.

Anyway, please get at us with an AP7.

PLEASE. JUST ANNOUNCE IT or SOMETHING. Even if its six months away...let us know.