A Tough ? -Sound Forge - PC - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

Subject:A Tough ? Posted by: bgpa Date:5/28/2008 7:53:54 PM OK, at my pastor's request we are adding previous sermon CDs to our web page as podcasts. I'm the Tech. Dir. at the church, run sound eqpt etc... 1st understand that recordings were originally for CD only. In recording the CDs the signal 1st passed thru an Aural Exciter which allowed the vocals to really "pop out" on Cds & really did enhance quite a bit. The problem came up when I began to import CD audio & process w/ standard normalizing, compressing etc... Each process step I take with the "Excited" processed CD, the audio took on an ever increasing "warbly"(sp?) reverb type sound. Is there any way to deal with this? Yes I know the prob lies in the original "Master" CDs. Is there any way to treat it as a distortion? Any option at all? SF8 is my software & I have run the processed audio thru multiple players on 3 computers & came to the conclusion that it's the "Exciter" process being compounded. Oversight from not anticipating or knowing the issue would come up. BTW- yes, from here on out I am removing the Aural Excite process from recording flow. Message last edited on5/28/2008 7:58:23 PM bybgpa.
Subject:RE: A Tough ? Reply by: Chienworks Date:5/28/2008 8:10:51 PM I guess my tough question is, why do you have to do any more processing at all? Simply rip the CDs as they are and save as .mp3.
Subject:RE: A Tough ? Reply by: Geoff_Wood Date:5/28/2008 8:33:42 PM Given that the previous master recordings are already fundamentally flawed, why not just leave them 'as is' (simply encode to MP3 or whatever), and concentrate on the future. geoff Message last edited on5/28/2008 8:34:20 PM byGeoff_Wood.
Subject:RE: A Tough ? Reply by: jumbuk Date:5/29/2008 5:53:33 PM I agree with the posts that suggest doing nothing. Question: what Aural Exciter was used? Was it an Aphex hardware unit? The problem with "undoing" AE effects is that the Aphex tricks include messing with phase and adding small amounts of harmonic distortion. However, any subsequent processing, including compression and EQ, will further alter the phase relationships, and will destroy the way the Aphex process created aural illusions out of what is essentially degradation of the audio. It might be possible to do some fixing by applying a phase linear processor or plug-in, but I don't have any experience to work from. You might try downoading a trial version of a phase linear EQ plugin and seeing if you can successfully cut some of the higher frequencies without producing unacceptable results.
Subject:RE: A Tough ? Reply by: bgpa Date:5/30/2008 5:07:04 AM You are all correct. Unfortunately in a church our size my priority has to be mixing for the room. I do not have a separate volunteer etc.. to mix or even monitor recording. The only processing I even attempted w/ these files was normalizing then compressing. Thanks.
Subject:RE: A Tough ? Reply by: RalphM Date:5/30/2008 1:13:36 PM Don't you have an AUX buss that you configure to avoid the processor? If it's just the sermon, all you have to do is to get an audible voice on the CD, then do any compression, etc that you need. RalphM
Subject:RE: A Tough ? Reply by: rraud Date:5/30/2008 6:29:15 PM I concur with Ralph, an "aux. pre-fader send" would make your recordings better if your using a lot of channel EQ for the house PA. (However some of the Mackies' have the pre-fade aux. send: post-EQ. Other than that, off topic, Equalize the house after the board with an outboard EQ, if that's possible with your system. ie: Mixer> Equalizer> Poweramp> Speakers.

Subject:A Tough ?

Posted by: bgpa

Date:5/28/2008 7:53:54 PM

OK, at my pastor's request we are adding previous sermon CDs to our web page as podcasts. I'm the Tech. Dir. at the church, run sound eqpt etc... 1st understand that recordings were originally for CD only. In recording the CDs the signal 1st passed thru an Aural Exciter which allowed the vocals to really "pop out" on Cds & really did enhance quite a bit.
The problem came up when I began to import CD audio & process w/ standard normalizing, compressing etc... Each process step I take with the "Excited" processed CD, the audio took on an ever increasing "warbly"(sp?) reverb type sound.
Is there any way to deal with this? Yes I know the prob lies in the original "Master" CDs. Is there any way to treat it as a distortion? Any option at all?
SF8 is my software & I have run the processed audio thru multiple players on 3 computers & came to the conclusion that it's the "Exciter" process being compounded. Oversight from not anticipating or knowing the issue would come up.

BTW- yes, from here on out I am removing the Aural Excite process from recording flow.

Message last edited on5/28/2008 7:58:23 PM bybgpa.

Subject:RE: A Tough ?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:5/28/2008 8:10:51 PM

I guess my tough question is, why do you have to do any more processing at all? Simply rip the CDs as they are and save as .mp3.

Subject:RE: A Tough ?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:5/28/2008 8:33:42 PM

Given that the previous master recordings are already fundamentally flawed, why not just leave them 'as is' (simply encode to MP3 or whatever), and concentrate on the future.

geoff

Message last edited on5/28/2008 8:34:20 PM byGeoff_Wood.

Subject:RE: A Tough ?

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:5/29/2008 5:53:33 PM

I agree with the posts that suggest doing nothing.

Question: what Aural Exciter was used? Was it an Aphex hardware unit?

The problem with "undoing" AE effects is that the Aphex tricks include messing with phase and adding small amounts of harmonic distortion. However, any subsequent processing, including compression and EQ, will further alter the phase relationships, and will destroy the way the Aphex process created aural illusions out of what is essentially degradation of the audio.

It might be possible to do some fixing by applying a phase linear processor or plug-in, but I don't have any experience to work from. You might try downoading a trial version of a phase linear EQ plugin and seeing if you can successfully cut some of the higher frequencies without producing unacceptable results.

Subject:RE: A Tough ?

Reply by: bgpa

Date:5/30/2008 5:07:04 AM

You are all correct. Unfortunately in a church our size my priority has to be mixing for the room. I do not have a separate volunteer etc.. to mix or even monitor recording.
The only processing I even attempted w/ these files was normalizing then compressing.
Thanks.

Subject:RE: A Tough ?

Reply by: RalphM

Date:5/30/2008 1:13:36 PM

Don't you have an AUX buss that you configure to avoid the processor? If it's just the sermon, all you have to do is to get an audible voice on the CD, then do any compression, etc that you need.

RalphM

Subject:RE: A Tough ?

Reply by: rraud

Date:5/30/2008 6:29:15 PM

I concur with Ralph, an "aux. pre-fader send" would make your recordings better if your using a lot of channel EQ for the house PA. (However some of the Mackies' have the pre-fade aux. send: post-EQ.
Other than that, off topic, Equalize the house after the board with an outboard EQ, if that's possible with your system. ie: Mixer> Equalizer> Poweramp> Speakers.