Subject:CD player offset values

Posted by: Allure

Date:5/16/2008 6:15:49 PM

Most of the cd ripping software that I have come across allow entry of the cd players 'offset value'.

I am not really sure how important this actually is - but is there a way to enter this in Sound Forge Audio Studio.

Also, what sort of error checking is the ripper doing - in terms of what sort of quality rip am I likely to end up with? I am aiming to use the cd rips in the future in a professional setting, so want to be sure by using Sound Forge Audio Studio that I am getting good rips.

Thanks,
Simon

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:5/17/2008 4:58:10 AM

Never heard of the term 'offset value' for a cd player. Do you mean dc offset perhaps?
Jack

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: 1marcus4

Date:2/13/2009 9:51:52 PM

EAC is the only ripping software I know of that detects and works with offset values. Are there others?

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:2/16/2009 1:57:39 PM

Kinda depends on what the hell it is !

geoff

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/16/2009 3:50:59 PM

CdEx also has adjustable offset. I find EAC overly complicated for my purposes.

"With the start and end offset you can tweak the actual start and end position. The values can be positive as well as negative. One unit corresponds to a sector, which is 1/75th of a second."

Another useful feature is the adjustable spin-up time, which gives the drive a chance to stabilize before initiating the buffer.

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:2/16/2009 6:34:41 PM

"Another useful feature is the adjustable spin-up time, which gives the drive a chance to stabilize before initiating the buffer."

Thanks for the laugh! That's one of the best jokes i've heard all day. ;)

The drive's controller is already going to re-read any block that isn't read correctly, so this "feature" is absolutely useless. It obviously exists for no reason other than hype to one-up the competition.

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/16/2009 11:30:29 PM

From the CDex help files:
"Some drives give small artifacts in the first couple of seconds of the WAV file; this is likely because the CD-ROM has not yet spun up completely. In order to avoid these artifacts, you can increase the spin-up time value (value is in seconds).

I've experienced mini-gaps when ripping and encoding direct to mp3, which as I'm sure you know uses a lot of resources, and setting this value to 4 seconds eliminated the problem for me.

Kelly, I've consistently given you a lot of respect and deference on these forums in the past, and I value your input and opinions even if I respectfully disagree.

However, I feel your sarcasm is just a bit misdirected in this case; if you want a good laugh, kindly save it for the coders who write these programs for free, and not by belittling my comments. I'll try my best to show you the same respect.

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/17/2009 8:41:28 AM

And while we're on the subject, one question that comes to mind reading this thread is, "Why use an external ripper when the one in SF is so good?"

The answer is the Lame Encoder.

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:2/18/2009 1:40:05 PM

Musicvid,

I'm sure Chienworks replied assuming that you were jesting.

Some of the advice that you have received seems rather odd to say the least. If a drive reads WAV files (or MP3s, or anything) with errors or gaps, then it is broken, and/or somebody has been tweaking things that should be left well alone.

geoff

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: jackn2mpu

Date:2/19/2009 6:07:48 AM

musicvid said:
And while we're on the subject, one question that comes to mind reading this thread is, "Why use an external ripper when the one in SF is so good?"

The answer is the Lame Encoder.

I replied:
Stating the obvious - ripping and encoding are 2 separate things. You can and should do each one separate. You can have one without the other. Your answer is like asking the question: did you walk to work or bring your lunch? One has nothing to do with the other.
Jack

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: musicvid10

Date:2/19/2009 8:25:40 AM

"Stating the obvious - ripping and encoding are 2 separate things. You can and should do each one separate. . . One has nothing to do with the other." [paraphrased]

If the amount of material, time factor, convenience, configurability, and quality vs. file size are not factors in my workflow, then I agree. And, if there is an editing step involved, such as preparing extracted segments for a rehearsal, then I do it all in Sound Forge.

However, if my goal is to put 100+ albums on my 8GB personal player, at the rate of a few every morning before I start my "real" day, then I look for the fastest, most automated approach with the least tradeoff in quality.

That workflow (in CDex) for me is:
-- Insert CD
-- Click "Extract"
-- Wait 8-9 minutes for finished .mp3 files

The result is really nice 192kbs MP3s, titled and tagged, inside their respectively named Artist and Album folder, ready to transfer to my portable device.

I set the spinup delay option to 4 seconds to make this work without gaps at the beginnings of files on my 6 mo. old Optiarc (DMA is enabled). I had to redo my first 19 albums because of this problem. Although the drive is not old or broken and plays flawlessly, this useful option for DAE does not pose a significant tradeoff. It seems not all CD drives are created equal . . .

Since that same workflow is a multiple step operation in Sound Forge requiring more time, intervention and manual choices, but fewer encoding options, I see no particular advantage do doing it that way. Two distinct disadvantages are that the Lame Encoder is not available in Sound Forge, and unlike Sound Forge, one can run multiple instances of CDex. Sound Forge, as excellent as it is, simply was not designed for this kind of work. Nor am I plugging CDex (there are other good ones), however I wear different hats (one as a quality-conscious consumer), so for me it is simply a matter of using the best tools for the job.

"Your answer is like asking the question: did you walk to work or bring your lunch? "
So, my answer to your rhetorical question is, "I brought my lunch because I walked to work."

Thanks for the thought-provoking discussion.

[Edited for clarity and typos]

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:2/19/2009 2:20:59 PM

Musicvid, good explanation.

"Sound Forge, as excellent as it is, simply was not designed for this kind of work."

I think you are probably right. Years ago, when I used to convert audio sample CDs (remember them?) to wavs, I used CDex regularly for the purpose. I tried the SF options, but CDex was just simpler. I still used SF for all my editing though (and still do).

Subject:RE: CD player offset values

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:2/19/2009 4:09:47 PM

But something remains unexplained - I've never had gaps in extracted MP3s from CDs, and never felt the need to dick with spin-up time.

So something is still not right somewhere, and when CDEX points to 'some drives' having problems, I would tend to think that those are drives to avoid. If that fault is evident - what else in there is not quite right ....?

geoff