Subject:New connections – advice needed please!

Posted by: John McCully

Date:5/5/2008 6:34:34 PM

Question: what do I need to do to create music?

Background: I shoot all kinds of video production, small mostly although I did a half hour documentary a while back. I have several cameras including a Sony EX1. I edit using Sony Vegas Pro 8 installed on a Dell Precision workstation laptop core 2 duo and integrated Sigma Tel sound card. I listen to sound produced by stereo Paradigm bookshelf Monitor series amplified by a NAD C315BEE which is connected to the headphone jack on the laptop. My residence/studio is a 9 meter motorhome, complete with high quality 240 volt power generation capability, and so I don’t have a lot of space to work with.

I want to have a shot at making music, soundtracks, for my video productions. I have a couple of decent mics I use with the EX1 and a Zoom H2 for backup recording. I have digital audio files off the internet such as the freely (literally) available Nine Inch Nails Ghosts 1 and know how to integrate sound files, MP3’s etc, in the Vegas timeline so I’m not entirely new to this. But now I am looking at making the next huge step.

I understand that a keyboard is the way to go. My local keyboard dealer wants to sell me a Roland Fantom G6 and he tells me that’s all I will ever need, and furthermore it has built in DAC’s and pre-amps, connects to my laptop via USB, and that I should plug my NAD amp into the keyboard and monitor the sound through the keyboard during the editing process either in Vegas 8 Pro, or Acid 6 should I decide to go with that software.

Is this technically correct? Is the Roland Fantom overkill? Certainly a chunk of change.

I learnt to play the piano when I was a kid, a long time ago. Anyway, why not have a go is my thinking.

I know many of you are far down this road and your thoughts shall be most appreciated.

John

Subject:RE: New connections – advice needed please!

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:5/7/2008 6:37:58 AM

> Is the Roland Fantom overkill?

That depends on your point of view. For me, my PC/ACID Pro 6 is the heart of my recording studio so the Roland Fantom G6 is overkill because it does a lot of things my PC already does so why waste the money. You can get a pretty beefy quad-core PC for that price. ACID does all of my sequencing and recording, I have Soft Synths that emulate Hammond B3's, and Melotrons, and Moog Modulars, and Grand Pianos, and Orchestras, so I have no need for hardware that records or makes sounds (and the software counterparts are much cheaper).

However, I have friends who would never record with a PC. They continue to use hardware recorders and the Roland Fantom is perfect for them and the Fantom becomes the heart of their studio. If you use the Fantom with your PC and ACID, you still have to feed the audio output of the Fantom to you PC to capture it during the final mix. Unless that USB connection is sending the audio to your PC somehow. It's not clear how this would work. You would also be paying for sequencer function in the Fantom that you will probably never use unless you plan to play live. I personally hate paying for stuff that I don't need.

I gonna take a wild guess that you are with me in the first category in which case all you need is a $150 MIDI Keyboard Controller and some Soft Synths (of which, ACID Pro 6 comes with Native Instruments Kompakt with a nice set of starter instruments). You'll also need a good audio interface. For a laptop I would definitely go with a firewire interface and not USB. Anything from M-Audio, Echo, or PreSonus should be fine. I use an M-Audio Firewire-410 and I'm very happy with it. I also have a PreSonus FireStudio but I haven't had the time to hook it up yet and check it out (I just got it recently)

Fell free to ask more questions. What you plan to buy needs to fit your workflow and style.

~jr

Subject:RE: New connections – advice needed please!

Reply by: bbcdrum

Date:5/7/2008 10:06:44 AM

(Full Disclosure: My wife works for Roland but these opinions are mine alone)

I have a Fantom X8 and I love it. You can create just about anything you want on it. However, there is a lot of overlap in functionality with a Fantom and a PC based recording solution.

There are a number of great hardware products out there and they deserve a look. For obvious reasons, my gear is Roland centric. Get what works for you.

Johnny Roy's software based system works for him and my hybrid software/hardware rig works for me. If you like the idea of hardware, I suggest you look the Roland Sonic Cell. This is a really good sound module (I have one) and I find it has a paradigm similar to that of the Fantom (e.g., stacking of sounds, splitting the keyboard, setting up performances). It also has two expansion card slots that accept the SRX series sound cards. A Sonic Cell, MIDI controller keyboard of choice (I like my PCR-500), and PC would make a nice hybrid rig.

As for getting the audio into the PC, you have to send the audio out (mono or stereo) from either the Fantom or the Sonic Cell into your audio interface. The Fantom does have a coax digital out (stereo).

As for the USB connection, from the Fantom X8 manual:

"The Fantom-X has two modes of USB functionality: storage mode for transferring files, and MIDI mode for sending and receiving MIDI messages. You must switch between these two modes on the Fantom-X; they cannot be used simultaneously."

I don't know about the new Fantom G series. The manuals can be found here:

http://backstage.rolandus.com/product_manuals/

I come from an analog mixing/sound background so I gravitate toward hardware because it is familiar and comfortable to me. I agree with Johnny Roy that your workflow and style should be your guide. Good Luck!

Kevin

Subject:RE: New connections – advice needed please!

Reply by: John McCully

Date:5/7/2008 6:14:27 PM

Many thanks JohnnyRoy and Kevin. Most helpful.

JohnnyRoy, I’m a PC person, have been since the mid 80’s and so I’m following your approach in that my laptop and Acid Pro will be the heart of my audio studio. Indeed I’m with your wild guess! I think you just saved me a chunk of money.

Another question: is it correct to say that working with this approach will result in sound quality equal to or better than importing Roland’s best hardware generated sound?

And one more: what keyboard…$150 MIDI Keyboard Controller…would you suggest?

Many thanks to both for your clear, concise and very helpful input.

Cheers

John

Subject:RE: New connections – advice needed please!

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:5/8/2008 9:17:57 AM

> ...is it correct to say that working with this approach will result in sound quality equal to or better than importing Roland’s best hardware generated sound?

Yes. The sounds from some of the Soft Synths is incredible. Think about it... it has your entire PC cpu, hard drive and memory to work with instead of the constraints of some hardware based system So you can easily have a 3GB grand piano sample that even emulates the sound of the hammers dropping back into place on key release.

Look into Native Instruments Kontakt. IMHO, it's one of the best samplers you can buy. Also their B4 (Hammond B3) is uncanny. I still have my B3 in my garage and you can hear the tone wheel harmonics like it's the real thing. Any of the Native Instruments synths are good. Another great company to check out is Aurturia. I have their Moog Modular V, ARP 2600 and Prophet 5 emulators and they are dead on. I owned an ARP Odyssey once and I still have my Minimoog and the ARP and Moog sound has been faithfully recreated in these instruments. You're not going to get that experience from some all-in-one keyboard.

> And one more: what keyboard…$150 MIDI Keyboard Controller…would you suggest?

I have a big old Roland 88 key controller but I also have an M-Audio Radium49 but they don't make those anymore. The M-Audio Oxygen 61 for $169). The cool thing about the Axiom is that it actually has integrated drum pads. Edirol makes some nice controllers too.

Here's the thing: You want a controller that has the number of keys you require for your style of playing. Some people can't live without 88, some are find with 61, some get by with 49. It's up to you. Then you want a controller that has the action you like (weighted or unweighted, etc.). Finally (and this is just as important) you want a controller that has knobs and sliders (and even pads) to control your Soft Synths! What you can do is assign the controls on the soft synth (i.e., the knobs on the Moog or draw-bars on the B3) to be controlled by the knobs and sliders on your MIDI keyboard. You now have real tactical hardware based feedback from a computer based synthesizer. Don't underestimate this advantage. Being able to open a synth filter or manipulate a B3 draw-bar while you play/record is priceless.

~jr