Vegas incompatibility with Canon HD cameras

Aurelien wrote on 4/11/2008, 10:40 PM
My software (8.0b) kept crashing if I imported more than a few HD files (captured with HDV split). I called sony and they told me they were aware of this issue and that it was related to canon's HD codec. They said they were working on a solution and that it would definitely be addressed. A few months of frustration went by and nothing. I finally decided to email them last week and it went like this:

"Hello,

I contacted sony a while ago because I was having problems editing anything shot with my canon HV20 camera. The original thread is here

http://www.custcenter.com/cgi-bin/sonypictures.cfg/php/enduser/myq_idp.php?p_li=cF91c2VyaWQ9Zm9ybWFsaXR5bWFzdGVyQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQmcF9wYXNzd2Q9Y29uZmlybWF0aW9uJnBfZW1haWw9Zm9ybWFsaXR5bWFzdGVyQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ*&p_iid=166558&p_created=1199148216

and the ref # is 071231-000143

Anyway, I was told at that time, that vegas was incompatible with any HD canon cameras and that sony was working on a solution. My issue was marked "solved" even though it was not. It has been almost four months and I still have not heard of any updates that would fix this problem. In other words, I am quite frustrated because I haven't been able to use any footage shot with my HD camera. It seems ridiculous to assume vegas wouldn't be compatible with one of the biggest camcorder maker in the world. I really feel like I bought this software for nothing and that I am going to have to buy another one. I don't want to do that since I am already proficient with Vegas and it's an powerfull software which I already own. Please point me in the right direction so I can start using it or let me know that I made a mistake purchasing your sofware and that I should buy another one.

Aurelien"

The reply, while very professional, did not appease my frustration:

"Hi Aurelien,

Thank you for writing back.

I apologize for the delay on this. This issue has not yet been addressed in the Vegas software, but it is a known issue and will be resolved. I do not know when the issue will be resolved as bugs and fixes come out constantly for the software. Please download the next available update and see if the problem is resolved, but I do not have an estimated time as to when this fix will be implemented.

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Nate P."

Is anyone working with HD footage shot on canon eq? There has to be some type of solution. I really like vegas, and I've been defending it against all the "why don't you get FCP like everyone in the industry?" "wow, you edit on a PC? Why?" I don't want to switch over but if I can't use it, what else am I suppose to do?

I don't know what to do...

Aurelien

Comments

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 4/11/2008, 11:21 PM
Stop using HDV Split, and capture with Vegas.

The problem is with HDV Split and the way it messes with the Long GOP (I think that's it at least)

All I know is that using the built in cap app is the solution for now (at least as far as I've read with regards to the Canon HDV Codec).

Dave
blink3times wrote on 4/12/2008, 4:06 AM
"The problem is with HDV Split and the way it messes with the Long GOP (I think that's it at least)"

I'm not so sure that's true. HDVsplit worked fine (for me anyway) up until 7e.

Having said that.... there sure is something different with canon cams.
HDVsplit works great with my Sony HC3, and HC7 but it's a mess with my canon hv20.... it will create a scene about every 50 to 100 milliseconds. Even if I take the canon tape and use the Sony for the playback, it's still a mess. This (to me anyway) makes it pretty clear that canon is doing SOMETHING quite differently from others.... and those others are not quite prepared for it.

Vegas capture works a LITTLE better with the Canon. It splits the scenes in the proper location but the first frame of the new scene will be 1/2 a frame of the previous scene with 1/2 a frame of the new scene.

My work-around for the canon is really quite simple.... don't use scene split. I capture the whole tape and will manually split the scenes on the time line. It's a lot of extra work but it's the only thing that seems to work with the canon.

I'm not sure I will be getting a canon camera again!

As for your frustration.... I hear ya. But they have not rolled out 8c yet so getting angry is still a bit premature. They said they're working on the issues and we of course will not see those results until 8c comes. Hopefully it comes soon.

But I don't blame Sony for this... switching the tapes from my canon to my Sony and STILL having issues with an independent capture program tells me that this is a Canon issue and not a Sony one.
mekelly wrote on 4/12/2008, 9:38 AM
That's strange. I own a Canon HV20 and use HDV Split all the time to capture. I haven't had any issues with capture. Interesting that Sony would say it's a known problem. I wonder what the variable is; in other words, why is it working for some and not for others?
Cheno wrote on 4/12/2008, 10:21 AM
If you have Vegas 7.x, you can capture just fine with that. They've changed something between 7 & 8 as to how the software is handling the .m2t files from Canon (or .m2t in general) that was not there in 7 or prior. It's a bear because I prefer the Canon HDV cams to the Sony's at this point. Can't say this will ever get better though, even with the move to solid state.
blink3times wrote on 4/12/2008, 11:02 AM
". Interesting that Sony would say it's a known problem."

Yes... exactly... a known problem.... For Canon cameras which means they're different somehow.

Why is it working for some? Good question, but I do know that what ever Canon is doing... it's right into the tape and not a hardware issue. Like I said, if I take the canon tape out and place it in my sony cam for capture (which captures fine with its own tapes), I get the same mess.
Terje wrote on 4/12/2008, 12:42 PM
Interestingly I get none of this mess, which leaves us with the question - given that we have identical camcorders and we use the same software, what is different? It probably isn't the Canon encoded MPEG-2 encoder, we have the same one.

I have captured a good bit of HV20 footage with no problems whatsoever. Most of it in 30, but also some in 24F.

So, we have a conundrum. Something is different from you to me, and it seems most likely that is other software on our PC...
Aurelien wrote on 4/12/2008, 3:54 PM
Thanks for all the input. I will try to capture with Vegas, and your right, 8c is not here yet...
jaegersing wrote on 4/12/2008, 8:38 PM
If you capture as one big file, instead of using scene detection, it works fine in Vegas. Of course you then have the hassle of chopping up the big file into clips which if you look on the positive side, means that you will actually have to watch the footage befire editing it. :)
blink3times wrote on 4/12/2008, 10:12 PM
"means that you will actually have to watch the footage befire editing it. :)'

LOL.
Yes... scene split does tend to make one quite lazy.
Dach wrote on 4/13/2008, 8:31 AM
To share my experience. I use both a Canon HV20 and a Canon XH A1 with Vegas 8.0b. I have experienced a problem when capturing with the A1, but I now use the HV20 exlcusively to import footage.

I have no problems.

Chad
cocacolaman wrote on 4/14/2008, 9:29 AM
I've had similar problems with clips captured with HDSplit from a Canon HV20.

Clips captured with HDVSplit used in 8b = constant crashes.

Same clips used in 7d = no problem.

Clips captured from the same tapes using the Sony capture utility in 8b work fine in both 7d and 8b...8b uses a lot more memory to handle the same clips.

I went back and forth with Sony support for about a month before they finally acknowledged that there may be a problem with clips captured from an HV20 with HDVSplit in 8b.

Peter
nolonemo wrote on 4/14/2008, 11:22 AM
What's the advantage of capturing using HDVSplit instead of the Vegas capture utility?
Konrad wrote on 4/14/2008, 10:29 PM
The "word" at NAB is 8.0c will rear its head in June.
jaegersing wrote on 4/15/2008, 9:54 PM
HDVSplit scene detection works correctly, but Vegas tends to split in the wrong place, a couple of frames into the following clip. Vegas also puts silence near the end of each audio clip where there should be audio. Quite easy to trim away all the crap, but also tedious.