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Subject:Scott Garrigus Test 1
Posted by: Rednroll
Date:10/7/2000 2:12:00 AM
Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring the sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, I'ld like to test you with some real world experiences and see how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can learn from your answers. Test 1: I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, they're microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Stereo record with Person 1 routed to the Left channel and Person 2 Routed to the Right Channel. I've put them on seperate channels so that I have the ability to adjust each persons volume and EQ later. Person 1 is a man with a loud voice and person 2 is a woman with a soft voice. I have their individual mics level adjusted so that they're both peaking around -6dB on there respected peak meter. After I record them into sound forge and playback the recording, I notice that the man's voice sounds like he's talking into a tin can everytime he speaks, but the womans voice sounds fine. What would I do in Sound Forge to correct this problem? and by the way there are instances when the man and women are talking at the sametime and moving the microphones is not an option. You should be able to give a solution to this and give approximate settings using the information I gave you. Good Luck, Everyone out there is welcome to contribute to the answer.....but shhhhhh...let Scott answer first :-) Brian Franz |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: garrigus
Date:10/10/2000 6:17:00 PM
Hi Brian, Sorry, I don't take tests. At least, not since I finished college. :-) My books are geared toward beginning and intermediate users. The books take readers through all of the product features, step-by-step, so that by the time they're done, they feel competent in using the software. There are also tips, examples, and exercises. It's obvious, however, that advanced users like yourself don't need such instruction. Although, I've had a few long time Cakewalk users tell me they got some good info. from my Cakewalk Power book. Sound Forge Power isn't available yet, but you can be sure I'll let everyone know when the time comes. In the meantime, I'm here to share, learn, and help out. If I have a chance to answer posts, I will. If not, then I won't. Just like everyone else who is frequenting this forum. Best, Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge Power! books, and Publisher of the DigiFreq music technology newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: http://www.garrigus.com/ Brian Franz wrote: >> Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring the >>sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this >>same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was >>too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up >>with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on >>Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did >>nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of >>recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple >>multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry >>Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 >>hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, I'ld >>like to test you with some real world experiences and see >>how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can >>learn from your answers. >> >>Test 1: >> >> I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, they're >>microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each >>other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Stereo >>record with Person 1 routed to the Left channel and Person 2 >>Routed to the Right Channel. I've put them on seperate >>channels so that I have the ability to adjust each persons >>volume and EQ later. Person 1 is a man with a loud voice and >>person 2 is a woman with a soft voice. I have their >>individual mics level adjusted so that they're both peaking >>around -6dB on there respected peak meter. After I record >>them into sound forge and playback the recording, I notice >>that the man's voice sounds like he's talking into a tin can >>everytime he speaks, but the womans voice sounds fine. What >>would I do in Sound Forge to correct this problem? and by >>the way there are instances when the man and women are >>talking at the sametime and moving the microphones is not an >>option. >> >>You should be able to give a solution to this and give >>approximate settings using the information I gave you. >>Good Luck, Everyone out there is welcome to contribute to >>the answer.....but shhhhhh...let Scott answer first :-) >>Brian Franz |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/10/2000 9:38:00 PM
Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. I had just visited your webpage today. And that's what I got from the information there, that you're writing to the beginner, who's just getting into Sound Forge and how to use most of Sound Forges cool features. That's what my disappointment was with the Wizoo's book that I purchased for Cubase. It covered the basics of using the program and never got into the nitty gritty, so that I could really unlock the program to it's full potential and use it for "real" work. I originally got the impression that you had more of a technical background but I see that you're more musical oriented than being an audio engineer. So are you interested in the answer anyways? or does anyone else here know it? Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>Hi Brian, >> >>Sorry, I don't take tests. At least, not since I finished college. :-) >> >>My books are geared toward beginning and intermediate users. The >>books take readers through all of the product features, step-by- step, >>so that by the time they're done, they feel competent in using the >>software. There are also tips, examples, and exercises. It's obvious, >>however, that advanced users like yourself don't need such >>instruction. Although, I've had a few long time Cakewalk users tell >>me they got some good info. from my Cakewalk Power book. Sound Forge >>Power isn't available yet, but you can be sure I'll let everyone know >>when the time comes. >> >>In the meantime, I'm here to share, learn, and help out. If I have a >>chance to answer posts, I will. If not, then I won't. Just like >>everyone else who is frequenting this forum. >> >>Best, >>Scott >> >>-- >>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge >>Power! books, and Publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>http://www.garrigus.com/ >> >> >> >>Brian Franz wrote: >>>> Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring the >>>>sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this >>>>same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was >>>>too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up >>>>with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on >>>>Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did >>>>nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of >>>>recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple >>>>multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry >>>>Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 >>>>hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, I'ld >>>>like to test you with some real world experiences and see >>>>how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can >>>>learn from your answers. >>>> >>>>Test 1: >>>> >>>> I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, they're >>>>microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each >>>>other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Stereo >>>>record with Person 1 routed to the Left channel and Person 2 >>>>Routed to the Right Channel. I've put them on seperate >>>>channels so that I have the ability to adjust each persons >>>>volume and EQ later. Person 1 is a man with a loud voice and >>>>person 2 is a woman with a soft voice. I have their >>>>individual mics level adjusted so that they're both peaking >>>>around -6dB on there respected peak meter. After I record >>>>them into sound forge and playback the recording, I notice >>>>that the man's voice sounds like he's talking into a tin can >>>>everytime he speaks, but the womans voice sounds fine. What >>>>would I do in Sound Forge to correct this problem? and by >>>>the way there are instances when the man and women are >>>>talking at the sametime and moving the microphones is not an >>>>option. >>>> >>>>You should be able to give a solution to this and give >>>>approximate settings using the information I gave you. >>>>Good Luck, Everyone out there is welcome to contribute to >>>>the answer.....but shhhhhh...let Scott answer first :-) >>>>Brian Franz |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: garrigus
Date:10/11/2000 11:22:00 AM
Hi Brian, Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college so I have plenty of audio engineering knowledge. I don't think the people at Sonic Foundry, Cakewalk, Electronic Musician magazine (and so on) would allow me to work with them if I didn't know what I was doing. :- ) And the books go into plenty of detail with tips, examples, exercises, etc. But they are guides to the software, and not audio recording in general. Even though these software packages already come with manuals, my books actually explain the features in plain English and what you might use them for rather than just saying "this does this." The books are meant to complement the manuals. The books are designed to take the reader from the very beginnings of using the software, walking them through all the aspects of it, and by the end having them feel competent enough to start doing "real" work with the products. My Cakewalk Power book has gotten nothing but high praise from readers. And I hope that the Sound Forge Power book will be received just as well. The books may not hold much interest for very advanced users, but most people will find them informative. And with currently over 2,500 subscribers (and more subscribing each day) to my free newsletter (which contains useful tips and techniques), it seems many people are enjoying that as well. :-) Best, Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge Power! books, and publisher of the DigiFreq music technology newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: http://www.garrigus.com/ Brian Franz wrote: >>Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. >> >> I had just visited your webpage today. And that's what I got >>from the information there, that you're writing to the beginner, >>who's just getting into Sound Forge and how to use most of Sound >>Forges cool features. That's what my disappointment was with the >>Wizoo's book that I purchased for Cubase. It covered the basics of >>using the program and never got into the nitty gritty, so that I >>could really unlock the program to it's full potential and use it >>for "real" work. I originally got the impression that you had more >>of a technical background but I see that you're more musical oriented >>than being an audio engineer. So are you interested in the answer >>anyways? or does anyone else here know it? >> >>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>Hi Brian, >>>> >>>>Sorry, I don't take tests. At least, not since I finished >>college. :-) >>>> >>>>My books are geared toward beginning and intermediate users. The >>>>books take readers through all of the product features, step-by- >>step, >>>>so that by the time they're done, they feel competent in using the >>>>software. There are also tips, examples, and exercises. It's >>obvious, >>>>however, that advanced users like yourself don't need such >>>>instruction. Although, I've had a few long time Cakewalk users tell >>>>me they got some good info. from my Cakewalk Power book. Sound >>Forge >>>>Power isn't available yet, but you can be sure I'll let everyone >>know >>>>when the time comes. >>>> >>>>In the meantime, I'm here to share, learn, and help out. If I have >>a >>>>chance to answer posts, I will. If not, then I won't. Just like >>>>everyone else who is frequenting this forum. >>>> >>>>Best, >>>>Scott >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge >>>>Power! books, and Publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>> Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring the >>>>>>sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this >>>>>>same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was >>>>>>too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up >>>>>>with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on >>>>>>Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did >>>>>>nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of >>>>>>recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple >>>>>>multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry >>>>>>Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 >>>>>>hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, I'ld >>>>>>like to test you with some real world experiences and see >>>>>>how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can >>>>>>learn from your answers. >>>>>> >>>>>>Test 1: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, they're >>>>>>microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each >>>>>>other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Stereo >>>>>>record with Person 1 routed to the Left channel and Person 2 >>>>>>Routed to the Right Channel. I've put them on seperate >>>>>>channels so that I have the ability to adjust each persons >>>>>>volume and EQ later. Person 1 is a man with a loud voice and >>>>>>person 2 is a woman with a soft voice. I have their >>>>>>individual mics level adjusted so that they're both peaking >>>>>>around -6dB on there respected peak meter. After I record >>>>>>them into sound forge and playback the recording, I notice >>>>>>that the man's voice sounds like he's talking into a tin can >>>>>>everytime he speaks, but the womans voice sounds fine. What >>>>>>would I do in Sound Forge to correct this problem? and by >>>>>>the way there are instances when the man and women are >>>>>>talking at the sametime and moving the microphones is not an >>>>>>option. >>>>>> >>>>>>You should be able to give a solution to this and give >>>>>>approximate settings using the information I gave you. >>>>>>Good Luck, Everyone out there is welcome to contribute to >>>>>>the answer.....but shhhhhh...let Scott answer first :-) >>>>>>Brian Franz |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/12/2000 1:15:00 AM
Sorry Scott, I was not trying to offend you. I have much admiration for what you are doing and I believe you are very competent in what you do. The test was just something to give other people in this forum useful information, which I thought you might have thrived off of. Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>Hi Brian, >> >>Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college so I have >>plenty of audio engineering knowledge. I don't think the people at >>Sonic Foundry, Cakewalk, Electronic Musician magazine (and so on) >>would allow me to work with them if I didn't know what I was doing. :- >>) >> >>And the books go into plenty of detail with tips, examples, >>exercises, etc. But they are guides to the software, and not audio >>recording in general. Even though these software packages already >>come with manuals, my books actually explain the features in plain >>English and what you might use them for rather than just saying "this >>does this." The books are meant to complement the manuals. The books >>are designed to take the reader from the very beginnings of using the >>software, walking them through all the aspects of it, and by the end >>having them feel competent enough to start doing "real" work with the >>products. My Cakewalk Power book has gotten nothing but high praise >>from readers. And I hope that the Sound Forge Power book will be >>received just as well. >> >>The books may not hold much interest for very advanced users, but >>most people will find them informative. And with currently over 2,500 >>subscribers (and more subscribing each day) to my free newsletter >>(which contains useful tips and techniques), it seems many people are >>enjoying that as well. :-) >> >>Best, >>Scott >> >>-- >>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge >>Power! books, and publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>http://www.garrigus.com/ >> >> >>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. >>>> >>>> I had just visited your webpage today. And that's what I got >>>>from the information there, that you're writing to the beginner, >>>>who's just getting into Sound Forge and how to use most of Sound >>>>Forges cool features. That's what my disappointment was with the >>>>Wizoo's book that I purchased for Cubase. It covered the basics of >>>>using the program and never got into the nitty gritty, so that I >>>>could really unlock the program to it's full potential and use it >>>>for "real" work. I originally got the impression that you had more >>>>of a technical background but I see that you're more musical >>oriented >>>>than being an audio engineer. So are you interested in the answer >>>>anyways? or does anyone else here know it? >>>> >>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>> >>>>>>Sorry, I don't take tests. At least, not since I finished >>>>college. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>>My books are geared toward beginning and intermediate users. The >>>>>>books take readers through all of the product features, step-by- >>>>step, >>>>>>so that by the time they're done, they feel competent in using >>the >>>>>>software. There are also tips, examples, and exercises. It's >>>>obvious, >>>>>>however, that advanced users like yourself don't need such >>>>>>instruction. Although, I've had a few long time Cakewalk users >>tell >>>>>>me they got some good info. from my Cakewalk Power book. Sound >>>>Forge >>>>>>Power isn't available yet, but you can be sure I'll let everyone >>>>know >>>>>>when the time comes. >>>>>> >>>>>>In the meantime, I'm here to share, learn, and help out. If I >>have >>>>a >>>>>>chance to answer posts, I will. If not, then I won't. Just like >>>>>>everyone else who is frequenting this forum. >>>>>> >>>>>>Best, >>>>>>Scott >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge >>>>>>Power! books, and Publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>>>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>>>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring the >>>>>>>>sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this >>>>>>>>same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was >>>>>>>>too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up >>>>>>>>with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on >>>>>>>>Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did >>>>>>>>nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of >>>>>>>>recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple >>>>>>>>multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry >>>>>>>>Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 >>>>>>>>hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, I'ld >>>>>>>>like to test you with some real world experiences and see >>>>>>>>how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can >>>>>>>>learn from your answers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Test 1: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, they're >>>>>>>>microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each >>>>>>>>other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Stereo >>>>>>>>record with Person 1 routed to the Left channel and Person 2 >>>>>>>>Routed to the Right Channel. I've put them on seperate >>>>>>>>channels so that I have the ability to adjust each persons >>>>>>>>volume and EQ later. Person 1 is a man with a loud voice and >>>>>>>>person 2 is a woman with a soft voice. I have their >>>>>>>>individual mics level adjusted so that they're both peaking >>>>>>>>around -6dB on there respected peak meter. After I record >>>>>>>>them into sound forge and playback the recording, I notice >>>>>>>>that the man's voice sounds like he's talking into a tin can >>>>>>>>everytime he speaks, but the womans voice sounds fine. What >>>>>>>>would I do in Sound Forge to correct this problem? and by >>>>>>>>the way there are instances when the man and women are >>>>>>>>talking at the sametime and moving the microphones is not an >>>>>>>>option. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>You should be able to give a solution to this and give >>>>>>>>approximate settings using the information I gave you. >>>>>>>>Good Luck, Everyone out there is welcome to contribute to >>>>>>>>the answer.....but shhhhhh...let Scott answer first :-) >>>>>>>>Brian Franz |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: garrigus
Date:10/12/2000 11:08:00 AM
Thanks, Brian! No need to apologize. That's the one thing I dislike about conversing over the Net, it's much too easy for misunderstandings to occur. Sorry about that. Best, Scott Brian Franz wrote: >>Sorry Scott, I was not trying to offend you. I have much admiration >>for what you are doing and I believe you are very competent in what >>you do. The test was just something to give other people in this >>forum useful information, which I thought you might have thrived off >>of. >> >>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>Hi Brian, >>>> >>>>Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college so I >>have >>>>plenty of audio engineering knowledge. I don't think the people at >>>>Sonic Foundry, Cakewalk, Electronic Musician magazine (and so on) >>>>would allow me to work with them if I didn't know what I was >>doing. :- >>>>) >>>> >>>>And the books go into plenty of detail with tips, examples, >>>>exercises, etc. But they are guides to the software, and not audio >>>>recording in general. Even though these software packages already >>>>come with manuals, my books actually explain the features in plain >>>>English and what you might use them for rather than just >>saying "this >>>>does this." The books are meant to complement the manuals. The >>books >>>>are designed to take the reader from the very beginnings of using >>the >>>>software, walking them through all the aspects of it, and by the >>end >>>>having them feel competent enough to start doing "real" work with >>the >>>>products. My Cakewalk Power book has gotten nothing but high praise >>>>from readers. And I hope that the Sound Forge Power book will be >>>>received just as well. >>>> >>>>The books may not hold much interest for very advanced users, but >>>>most people will find them informative. And with currently over >>2,500 >>>>subscribers (and more subscribing each day) to my free newsletter >>>>(which contains useful tips and techniques), it seems many people >>are >>>>enjoying that as well. :-) >>>> >>>>Best, >>>>Scott >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge >>>>Power! books, and publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had just visited your webpage today. And that's what I >>got >>>>>>from the information there, that you're writing to the beginner, >>>>>>who's just getting into Sound Forge and how to use most of Sound >>>>>>Forges cool features. That's what my disappointment was with the >>>>>>Wizoo's book that I purchased for Cubase. It covered the basics >>of >>>>>>using the program and never got into the nitty gritty, so that I >>>>>>could really unlock the program to it's full potential and use it >>>>>>for "real" work. I originally got the impression that you had >>more >>>>>>of a technical background but I see that you're more musical >>>>oriented >>>>>>than being an audio engineer. So are you interested in the >>answer >>>>>>anyways? or does anyone else here know it? >>>>>> >>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sorry, I don't take tests. At least, not since I finished >>>>>>college. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>My books are geared toward beginning and intermediate users. >>The >>>>>>>>books take readers through all of the product features, step- by- >>>>>>step, >>>>>>>>so that by the time they're done, they feel competent in using >>>>the >>>>>>>>software. There are also tips, examples, and exercises. It's >>>>>>obvious, >>>>>>>>however, that advanced users like yourself don't need such >>>>>>>>instruction. Although, I've had a few long time Cakewalk users >>>>tell >>>>>>>>me they got some good info. from my Cakewalk Power book. Sound >>>>>>Forge >>>>>>>>Power isn't available yet, but you can be sure I'll let >>everyone >>>>>>know >>>>>>>>when the time comes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In the meantime, I'm here to share, learn, and help out. If I >>>>have >>>>>>a >>>>>>>>chance to answer posts, I will. If not, then I won't. Just like >>>>>>>>everyone else who is frequenting this forum. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Best, >>>>>>>>Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound >>Forge >>>>>>>>Power! books, and Publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>>>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>>>>>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>>>>>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring the >>>>>>>>>>sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this >>>>>>>>>>same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was >>>>>>>>>>too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up >>>>>>>>>>with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on >>>>>>>>>>Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did >>>>>>>>>>nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of >>>>>>>>>>recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple >>>>>>>>>>multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry >>>>>>>>>>Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 >>>>>>>>>>hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, I'ld >>>>>>>>>>like to test you with some real world experiences and see >>>>>>>>>>how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can >>>>>>>>>>learn from your answers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Test 1: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, they're >>>>>>>>>>microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each >>>>>>>>>>other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Stereo >>>>>>>>>>record with Person 1 routed to the Left channel and Person 2 >>>>>>>>>>Routed to the Right Channel. I've put them on seperate >>>>>>>>>>channels so that I have the ability to adjust each persons >>>>>>>>>>volume and EQ later. Person 1 is a man with a loud voice and >>>>>>>>>>person 2 is a woman with a soft voice. I have their >>>>>>>>>>individual mics level adjusted so that they're both peaking >>>>>>>>>>around -6dB on there respected peak meter. After I record >>>>>>>>>>them into sound forge and playback the recording, I notice >>>>>>>>>>that the man's voice sounds like he's talking into a tin can >>>>>>>>>>everytime he speaks, but the womans voice sounds fine. What >>>>>>>>>>would I do in Sound Forge to correct this problem? and by >>>>>>>>>>the way there are instances when the man and women are >>>>>>>>>>talking at the sametime and moving the microphones is not an >>>>>>>>>>option. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>You should be able to give a solution to this and give >>>>>>>>>>approximate settings using the information I gave you. >>>>>>>>>>Good Luck, Everyone out there is welcome to contribute to >>>>>>>>>>the answer.....but shhhhhh...let Scott answer first :-) >>>>>>>>>>Brian Franz |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: CDM
Date:10/14/2000 1:28:00 PM
Hi Brian - I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you know the answer and were just testing or if you needed and answer. I own a Voice Over studio in New York and occasionally run into the same problem. If I have two people in my booth (say, for a radio show called RocknRoots, which I do), I sometimes get a "boominess" out of one of the mics due to its wider cardioid pattern and due to the reflections in the room. I record into Vegas, but I could do the same thing in Sound forge. You basically need to silence (with room tone if necessary) the portions of speech where the other person is not speaking to eliminate the phasing occuring from what that mic is picking up. During the sections where they are both speaking, you're kind of out of luck. Have you tried setting up baffles in the booth? Have you tried different Mic patterns? Have you tried phase reversal? To overwrite portions in Sound Forge with room tone, say, select a portion of room tone which is plenty long and copy it (ctrl-c). Then, find the spots where the boomy voice is speaking and the soft one isn't. Select the portion on the soft track for that period and then right click on the selection and choose overwrite. It will put room tone there. In Vegas, just use the trimmer function to trim the edges of the event or copy and event with room tone into those spots. Hope this helps - if you needed it :) Charles. Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>Thanks, Brian! No need to apologize. That's the one thing I dislike >>about conversing over the Net, it's much too easy for >>misunderstandings to occur. Sorry about that. >> >>Best, >>Scott >> >> >>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>Sorry Scott, I was not trying to offend you. I have much >>admiration >>>>for what you are doing and I believe you are very competent in what >>>>you do. The test was just something to give other people in this >>>>forum useful information, which I thought you might have thrived >>off >>>>of. >>>> >>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>> >>>>>>Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college so I >>>>have >>>>>>plenty of audio engineering knowledge. I don't think the people >>at >>>>>>Sonic Foundry, Cakewalk, Electronic Musician magazine (and so on) >>>>>>would allow me to work with them if I didn't know what I was >>>>doing. :- >>>>>>) >>>>>> >>>>>>And the books go into plenty of detail with tips, examples, >>>>>>exercises, etc. But they are guides to the software, and not >>audio >>>>>>recording in general. Even though these software packages already >>>>>>come with manuals, my books actually explain the features in >>plain >>>>>>English and what you might use them for rather than just >>>>saying "this >>>>>>does this." The books are meant to complement the manuals. The >>>>books >>>>>>are designed to take the reader from the very beginnings of using >>>>the >>>>>>software, walking them through all the aspects of it, and by the >>>>end >>>>>>having them feel competent enough to start doing "real" work with >>>>the >>>>>>products. My Cakewalk Power book has gotten nothing but high >>praise >>>>>>from readers. And I hope that the Sound Forge Power book will be >>>>>>received just as well. >>>>>> >>>>>>The books may not hold much interest for very advanced users, but >>>>>>most people will find them informative. And with currently over >>>>2,500 >>>>>>subscribers (and more subscribing each day) to my free newsletter >>>>>>(which contains useful tips and techniques), it seems many people >>>>are >>>>>>enjoying that as well. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>>Best, >>>>>>Scott >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound Forge >>>>>>Power! books, and publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>>>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>>>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had just visited your webpage today. And that's what I >>>>got >>>>>>>>from the information there, that you're writing to the >>beginner, >>>>>>>>who's just getting into Sound Forge and how to use most of >>Sound >>>>>>>>Forges cool features. That's what my disappointment was with >>the >>>>>>>>Wizoo's book that I purchased for Cubase. It covered the >>basics >>>>of >>>>>>>>using the program and never got into the nitty gritty, so that >>I >>>>>>>>could really unlock the program to it's full potential and use >>it >>>>>>>>for "real" work. I originally got the impression that you had >>>>more >>>>>>>>of a technical background but I see that you're more musical >>>>>>oriented >>>>>>>>than being an audio engineer. So are you interested in the >>>>answer >>>>>>>>anyways? or does anyone else here know it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Sorry, I don't take tests. At least, not since I finished >>>>>>>>college. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>My books are geared toward beginning and intermediate users. >>>>The >>>>>>>>>>books take readers through all of the product features, step- >>by- >>>>>>>>step, >>>>>>>>>>so that by the time they're done, they feel competent in >>using >>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>software. There are also tips, examples, and exercises. It's >>>>>>>>obvious, >>>>>>>>>>however, that advanced users like yourself don't need such >>>>>>>>>>instruction. Although, I've had a few long time Cakewalk >>users >>>>>>tell >>>>>>>>>>me they got some good info. from my Cakewalk Power book. >>Sound >>>>>>>>Forge >>>>>>>>>>Power isn't available yet, but you can be sure I'll let >>>>everyone >>>>>>>>know >>>>>>>>>>when the time comes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>In the meantime, I'm here to share, learn, and help out. If I >>>>>>have >>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>>chance to answer posts, I will. If not, then I won't. Just >>like >>>>>>>>>>everyone else who is frequenting this forum. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Best, >>>>>>>>>>Scott >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound >>>>Forge >>>>>>>>>>Power! books, and Publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>>>>>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your >>music >>>>>>>>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf >>to: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Scott I read your post on why you're monitoring >>the >>>>>>>>>>>>sound Forge Forum and became interested because I had this >>>>>>>>>>>>same Idea about 2 years ago and gave it up because, it was >>>>>>>>>>>>too much work for 1 person to handle. I originally came up >>>>>>>>>>>>with the idea, when I was trying to learn how to edit on >>>>>>>>>>>>Cubase VST and I had purchased Wizoo books, which did >>>>>>>>>>>>nothing for anyone who already had a good understanding of >>>>>>>>>>>>recording. I spent 3 months trying to figure out simple >>>>>>>>>>>>multitrack editing on cubase and luckily Sonic Foundry >>>>>>>>>>>>Developed Vegas and I learned the entire program in under 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>hours, so I gave up the mission on Cubase. So anyways, >>I'ld >>>>>>>>>>>>like to test you with some real world experiences and see >>>>>>>>>>>>how you would solve them using Sound Forge and everyone can >>>>>>>>>>>>learn from your answers. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Test 1: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have 2 Voice over people in a recording booth, >>they're >>>>>>>>>>>>microphones are placed approximately 7 feet apart from each >>>>>>>>>>>>other. I'm recording them into sound forge, doing a Ster |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/14/2000 10:38:00 PM
Actually Charles I do know the answer and here is an easier solution to overcome these phase problems. First yes, you are correct that this is a phase problem. The problem is that the man's voice is approximately the same level in both microphones which are seperated 7 feet apart from each other, thus causing the phase cancellation. Seeing that sound travels at 1130 feet/sec. this averages out to approximately 1mS delay per foot. So the man's voice is arriving at the womans microphone approximately 7mS later than the one that is intended for him. So to fix this in Sound Forge you would select the entire Track of the Man's Voice and go into the "Effects" menu and go into the delay/Echo effect and choose "simple delay". You would start with a Delay time of 7mS and fine adjust this until both the Left and Right signal came back into phase with one another, You'ld most likely have a delay time of approx. 7.2mS...walah they're in phase and sound normal again by delaying one channel. The way that I do this in the real world when I run into this problem, is to patch the louder persons microphone channel into a delay and adjust the delay unit accordingly until you hear no phase cancellation. You could also do it the other way around too. Phase cancellation is a comb filter, the comb frequencies is dependant on the distances the microphones are seperated. If you put a delay in the softer persons microphone you could increase the delay until the combing actually started to occur in higher frequency ranges that are less noticable. I also use this first technique of delay, when multiple micing a guitar amp. I put a close mic on an amp and then I also put a mic back in the room. I then have to put a delay on the close mic to be able to mix the two mics together without any phase cancellation. Just use the formula 1.1mS per foot delay and tweak from there. You're able to get a "huge" sounding guitar using this technique. P.S. I believe in your solution you would still run into a problem when both voice over people talked at the same time and you couldn't silence the other persons channel and add room tone. I've used this technique also, but you always run into this problem when occassionally the voice over people walk on each other, that's why I added the disclaimer: on occassion both voice overs talk at the same time. :-) The other solution would be to put the microphones in the cardiode pattern and put the microphones together with the rejections pointed at each other, but that would give you less seperation of each voice over people, so that's why I gave the disclaimer of not being able to move the microphones. Thanks, I hope this helps everyone. Charles de Montebello wrote: >>Hi Brian - >>I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you know the answer and >>were just testing or if you needed and answer. I own a Voice Over >>studio in New York and occasionally run into the same problem. If I >>have two people in my booth (say, for a radio show called RocknRoots, >>which I do), I sometimes get a "boominess" out of one of the mics due >>to its wider cardioid pattern and due to the reflections in the room. >>I record into Vegas, but I could do the same thing in Sound forge. >>You basically need to silence (with room tone if necessary) the >>portions of speech where the other person is not speaking to >>eliminate the phasing occuring from what that mic is picking up. >>During the sections where they are both speaking, you're kind of out >>of luck. Have you tried setting up baffles in the booth? Have you >>tried different Mic patterns? Have you tried phase reversal? >>To overwrite portions in Sound Forge with room tone, say, select a >>portion of room tone which is plenty long and copy it (ctrl-c). Then, >>find the spots where the boomy voice is speaking and the soft one >>isn't. Select the portion on the soft track for that period and then >>right click on the selection and choose overwrite. It will put room >>tone there. >>In Vegas, just use the trimmer function to trim the edges of the >>event or copy and event with room tone into those spots. >> >>Hope this helps - if you needed it :) >> >>Charles. >> >>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>Thanks, Brian! No need to apologize. That's the one thing I dislike >>>>about conversing over the Net, it's much too easy for >>>>misunderstandings to occur. Sorry about that. >>>> >>>>Best, >>>>Scott >>>> >>>> >>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>Sorry Scott, I was not trying to offend you. I have much >>>>admiration >>>>>>for what you are doing and I believe you are very competent in >>what >>>>>>you do. The test was just something to give other people in this >>>>>>forum useful information, which I thought you might have thrived >>>>off >>>>>>of. >>>>>> >>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college so >>I >>>>>>have >>>>>>>>plenty of audio engineering knowledge. I don't think the people >>>>at >>>>>>>>Sonic Foundry, Cakewalk, Electronic Musician magazine (and so >>on) >>>>>>>>would allow me to work with them if I didn't know what I was >>>>>>doing. :- >>>>>>>>) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>And the books go into plenty of detail with tips, examples, >>>>>>>>exercises, etc. But they are guides to the software, and not >>>>audio >>>>>>>>recording in general. Even though these software packages >>already >>>>>>>>come with manuals, my books actually explain the features in >>>>plain >>>>>>>>English and what you might use them for rather than just >>>>>>saying "this >>>>>>>>does this." The books are meant to complement the manuals. The >>>>>>books >>>>>>>>are designed to take the reader from the very beginnings of >>using >>>>>>the >>>>>>>>software, walking them through all the aspects of it, and by >>the >>>>>>end >>>>>>>>having them feel competent enough to start doing "real" work >>with >>>>>>the >>>>>>>>products. My Cakewalk Power book has gotten nothing but high >>>>praise >>>>>>>>from readers. And I hope that the Sound Forge Power book will >>be >>>>>>>>received just as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The books may not hold much interest for very advanced users, >>but >>>>>>>>most people will find them informative. And with currently over >>>>>>2,500 >>>>>>>>subscribers (and more subscribing each day) to my free >>newsletter >>>>>>>>(which contains useful tips and techniques), it seems many >>people >>>>>>are >>>>>>>>enjoying that as well. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Best, >>>>>>>>Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound >>Forge >>>>>>>>Power! books, and publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>>>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your music >>>>>>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf to: >>>>>>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I had just visited your webpage today. And that's what >>I >>>>>>got >>>>>>>>>>from the information there, that you're writing to the >>>>beginner, >>>>>>>>>>who's just getting into Sound Forge and how to use most of >>>>Sound >>>>>>>>>>Forges cool features. That's what my disappointment was with >>>>the >>>>>>>>>>Wizoo's book that I purchased for Cubase. It covered the >>>>basics >>>>>>of >>>>>>>>>>using the program and never got into the nitty gritty, so >>that >>>>I >>>>>>>>>>could really unlock the program to it's full potential and >>use >>>>it >>>>>>>>>>for "real" work. I originally got the impression that you >>had >>>>>>more >>>>>>>>>>of a technical background but I see that yo |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: CDM
Date:10/15/2000 12:35:00 AM
Interesting, Brian. I've never tried tackling this problem with a delay. I'll have to check that out. Your're right about when both people speak - you can't get rid of that with my method. Thanks for the input, Charles, Brian Franz wrote: >>Actually Charles I do know the answer and here is an easier solution >>to overcome these phase problems. First yes, you are correct that >>this is a phase problem. The problem is that the man's voice is >>approximately the same level in both microphones which are seperated >>7 feet apart from each other, thus causing the phase cancellation. >>Seeing that sound travels at 1130 feet/sec. this averages out to >>approximately 1mS delay per foot. So the man's voice is arriving at >>the womans microphone approximately 7mS later than the one that is >>intended for him. So to fix this in Sound Forge you would select the >>entire Track of the Man's Voice and go into the "Effects" menu and go >>into the delay/Echo effect and choose "simple delay". You would >>start with a Delay time of 7mS and fine adjust this until both the >>Left and Right signal came back into phase with one another, You'ld >>most likely have a delay time of approx. 7.2mS...walah they're in >>phase and sound normal again by delaying one channel. The way that I >>do this in the real world when I run into this problem, is to patch >>the louder persons microphone channel into a delay and adjust the >>delay unit accordingly until you hear no phase cancellation. You >>could also do it the other way around too. Phase cancellation is a >>comb filter, the comb frequencies is dependant on the distances the >>microphones are seperated. If you put a delay in the softer persons >>microphone you could increase the delay until the combing actually >>started to occur in higher frequency ranges that are less noticable. >> >>I also use this first technique of delay, when multiple micing a >>guitar amp. I put a close mic on an amp and then I also put a mic >>back in the room. I then have to put a delay on the close mic to be >>able to mix the two mics together without any phase cancellation. >>Just use the formula 1.1mS per foot delay and tweak from there. >>You're able to get a "huge" sounding guitar using this technique. >> >>P.S. I believe in your solution you would still run into a problem >>when both voice over people talked at the same time and you couldn't >>silence the other persons channel and add room tone. I've used this >>technique also, but you always run into this problem when >>occassionally the voice over people walk on each other, that's why I >>added the disclaimer: on occassion both voice overs talk at the same >>time. :-) The other solution would be to put the microphones in the >>cardiode pattern and put the microphones together with the rejections >>pointed at each other, but that would give you less seperation of >>each voice over people, so that's why I gave the disclaimer of not >>being able to move the microphones. >> >>Thanks, I hope this helps everyone. >> >> >>Charles de Montebello wrote: >>>>Hi Brian - >>>>I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you know the answer >>and >>>>were just testing or if you needed and answer. I own a Voice Over >>>>studio in New York and occasionally run into the same problem. If I >>>>have two people in my booth (say, for a radio show called >>RocknRoots, >>>>which I do), I sometimes get a "boominess" out of one of the mics >>due >>>>to its wider cardioid pattern and due to the reflections in the >>room. >>>>I record into Vegas, but I could do the same thing in Sound forge. >>>>You basically need to silence (with room tone if necessary) the >>>>portions of speech where the other person is not speaking to >>>>eliminate the phasing occuring from what that mic is picking up. >>>>During the sections where they are both speaking, you're kind of >>out >>>>of luck. Have you tried setting up baffles in the booth? Have you >>>>tried different Mic patterns? Have you tried phase reversal? >>>>To overwrite portions in Sound Forge with room tone, say, select a >>>>portion of room tone which is plenty long and copy it (ctrl-c). >>Then, >>>>find the spots where the boomy voice is speaking and the soft one >>>>isn't. Select the portion on the soft track for that period and >>then >>>>right click on the selection and choose overwrite. It will put room >>>>tone there. >>>>In Vegas, just use the trimmer function to trim the edges of the >>>>event or copy and event with room tone into those spots. >>>> >>>>Hope this helps - if you needed it :) >>>> >>>>Charles. >>>> >>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>Thanks, Brian! No need to apologize. That's the one thing I >>dislike >>>>>>about conversing over the Net, it's much too easy for >>>>>>misunderstandings to occur. Sorry about that. >>>>>> >>>>>>Best, >>>>>>Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>Sorry Scott, I was not trying to offend you. I have much >>>>>>admiration >>>>>>>>for what you are doing and I believe you are very competent in >>>>what >>>>>>>>you do. The test was just something to give other people in >>this >>>>>>>>forum useful information, which I thought you might have >>thrived >>>>>>off >>>>>>>>of. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college >>so >>>>I >>>>>>>>have >>>>>>>>>>plenty of audio engineering knowledge. I don't think the >>people >>>>>>at >>>>>>>>>>Sonic Foundry, Cakewalk, Electronic Musician magazine (and so >>>>on) >>>>>>>>>>would allow me to work with them if I didn't know what I was >>>>>>>>doing. :- >>>>>>>>>>) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>And the books go into plenty of detail with tips, examples, >>>>>>>>>>exercises, etc. But they are guides to the software, and not >>>>>>audio >>>>>>>>>>recording in general. Even though these software packages >>>>already >>>>>>>>>>come with manuals, my books actually explain the features in >>>>>>plain >>>>>>>>>>English and what you might use them for rather than just >>>>>>>>saying "this >>>>>>>>>>does this." The books are meant to complement the manuals. >>The >>>>>>>>books >>>>>>>>>>are designed to take the reader from the very beginnings of >>>>using >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>software, walking them through all the aspects of it, and by >>>>the >>>>>>>>end >>>>>>>>>>having them feel competent enough to start doing "real" work >>>>with >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>products. My Cakewalk Power book has gotten nothing but high >>>>>>praise >>>>>>>>>>from readers. And I hope that the Sound Forge Power book will >>>>be >>>>>>>>>>received just as well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The books may not hold much interest for very advanced users, >>>>but >>>>>>>>>>most people will find them informative. And with currently >>over >>>>>>>>2,500 >>>>>>>>>>subscribers (and more subscribing each day) to my free >>>>newsletter >>>>>>>>>>(which contains useful tips and techniques), it seems many >>>>people >>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>>>enjoying that as well. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Best, >>>>>>>>>>Scott >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Power! and Sound >>>>Forge >>>>>>>>>>Power! books, and publisher of the DigiFreq music technology >>>>>>>>>>newsletter. Learn about cool tips and techniques for your >>music >>>>>>>>>>software by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... surf >>to: >>>>>>>>>>http://www.garrigus.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Scott, Admirable answer. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I had just visited your webpage today. And that's >>what >>>>I >>>>>>>>got |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:10/15/2000 10:53:00 AM
ahhhh Yes, and it does work. I'll probably get yelled at from the SF police, for going off topic, but if you use this technique infront of another engineer, they'll look at you like your a genious :-) I had this happen to me about 3 years back. At that time I was just beginning to do advertisement type work. I had originally done a lot of studio music work prior to this, where I had used this technique on micing drums. When you have an 02R you have a delay on every channel, so when you mic your drums you make your overheads your focal point and delay the rest of the mics to that reference point. But anyhow I was sitting in on my first advertising session being trained "by someone with more experience." It was an "Adam & Eve" Big Boy spot, where Adam was a loud obnoxious dumb guy and Eve was soft spoken and Sexy. Well we had this major phasing problem, so the guy who was training me, tried repositioning the (2)AKG414's, tried switching polar patterns, he was obeying the 3 to 1 rule. Everthing he tried didn't work....the producer started to get concerned...he tried to explain that he would fix it later after it was recorded... (your method of editing it)....well of course the producer didn't understand what was happening and he just wanted to make sure it sounded right. So now the producer was upset, so "the guy who was training me" looked at me and asked, "you have any ideas how to fix it?"....I said sure let me try something. I patched in a Yamaha SPX1000 into "Adams" channel, recalled a delay...the mics were about 9 feet apart...punched in 9ms delay...had them do a sound check...adjusted to 9.7mS...walahh...everything back in phase and sounding normal. The guy that was training me had no idea what I was doing and thought I was a genious. After the session, I gave my teacher a lesson on phase and delay. :-) Hope someone else can use this info some day, Brian Franz Charles de Montebello wrote: >>Interesting, Brian. I've never tried tackling this problem with a >>delay. I'll have to check that out. Your're right about when both >>people speak - you can't get rid of that with my method. >> >>Thanks for the input, >>Charles, >> >>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>Actually Charles I do know the answer and here is an easier >>solution >>>>to overcome these phase problems. First yes, you are correct that >>>>this is a phase problem. The problem is that the man's voice is >>>>approximately the same level in both microphones which are >>seperated >>>>7 feet apart from each other, thus causing the phase cancellation. >>>>Seeing that sound travels at 1130 feet/sec. this averages out to >>>>approximately 1mS delay per foot. So the man's voice is arriving >>at >>>>the womans microphone approximately 7mS later than the one that is >>>>intended for him. So to fix this in Sound Forge you would select >>the >>>>entire Track of the Man's Voice and go into the "Effects" menu and >>go >>>>into the delay/Echo effect and choose "simple delay". You would >>>>start with a Delay time of 7mS and fine adjust this until both the >>>>Left and Right signal came back into phase with one another, You'ld >>>>most likely have a delay time of approx. 7.2mS...walah they're in >>>>phase and sound normal again by delaying one channel. The way that >>I >>>>do this in the real world when I run into this problem, is to patch >>>>the louder persons microphone channel into a delay and adjust the >>>>delay unit accordingly until you hear no phase cancellation. You >>>>could also do it the other way around too. Phase cancellation is a >>>>comb filter, the comb frequencies is dependant on the distances the >>>>microphones are seperated. If you put a delay in the softer >>persons >>>>microphone you could increase the delay until the combing actually >>>>started to occur in higher frequency ranges that are less noticable. >>>> >>>>I also use this first technique of delay, when multiple micing a >>>>guitar amp. I put a close mic on an amp and then I also put a mic >>>>back in the room. I then have to put a delay on the close mic to >>be >>>>able to mix the two mics together without any phase cancellation. >>>>Just use the formula 1.1mS per foot delay and tweak from there. >>>>You're able to get a "huge" sounding guitar using this technique. >>>> >>>>P.S. I believe in your solution you would still run into a problem >>>>when both voice over people talked at the same time and you >>couldn't >>>>silence the other persons channel and add room tone. I've used >>this >>>>technique also, but you always run into this problem when >>>>occassionally the voice over people walk on each other, that's why >>I >>>>added the disclaimer: on occassion both voice overs talk at the >>same >>>>time. :-) The other solution would be to put the microphones in >>the >>>>cardiode pattern and put the microphones together with the >>rejections >>>>pointed at each other, but that would give you less seperation of >>>>each voice over people, so that's why I gave the disclaimer of not >>>>being able to move the microphones. >>>> >>>>Thanks, I hope this helps everyone. >>>> >>>> >>>>Charles de Montebello wrote: >>>>>>Hi Brian - >>>>>>I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you know the answer >>>>and >>>>>>were just testing or if you needed and answer. I own a Voice Over >>>>>>studio in New York and occasionally run into the same problem. If >>I >>>>>>have two people in my booth (say, for a radio show called >>>>RocknRoots, >>>>>>which I do), I sometimes get a "boominess" out of one of the mics >>>>due >>>>>>to its wider cardioid pattern and due to the reflections in the >>>>room. >>>>>>I record into Vegas, but I could do the same thing in Sound >>forge. >>>>>>You basically need to silence (with room tone if necessary) the >>>>>>portions of speech where the other person is not speaking to >>>>>>eliminate the phasing occuring from what that mic is picking up. >>>>>>During the sections where they are both speaking, you're kind of >>>>out >>>>>>of luck. Have you tried setting up baffles in the booth? Have you >>>>>>tried different Mic patterns? Have you tried phase reversal? >>>>>>To overwrite portions in Sound Forge with room tone, say, select >>a >>>>>>portion of room tone which is plenty long and copy it (ctrl-c). >>>>Then, >>>>>>find the spots where the boomy voice is speaking and the soft one >>>>>>isn't. Select the portion on the soft track for that period and >>>>then >>>>>>right click on the selection and choose overwrite. It will put >>room >>>>>>tone there. >>>>>>In Vegas, just use the trimmer function to trim the edges of the >>>>>>event or copy and event with room tone into those spots. >>>>>> >>>>>>Hope this helps - if you needed it :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Charles. >>>>>> >>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>>>Thanks, Brian! No need to apologize. That's the one thing I >>>>dislike >>>>>>>>about conversing over the Net, it's much too easy for >>>>>>>>misunderstandings to occur. Sorry about that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Best, >>>>>>>>Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Sorry Scott, I was not trying to offend you. I have much >>>>>>>>admiration >>>>>>>>>>for what you are doing and I believe you are very competent >>in >>>>>>what >>>>>>>>>>you do. The test was just something to give other people in >>>>this >>>>>>>>>>forum useful information, which I thought you might have >>>>thrived >>>>>>>>off >>>>>>>>>>of. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Scott R. Garrigus wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Brian, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Actually, I did study sound recording technology in college >>>>so >>>>>>I >>>>>>>>>>have >>>>>>>>>>>>plenty of audio engineering knowl |
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Subject:Re: Scott Garrigus Test 1
Reply by: CDM
Date:10/15/2000 11:09:00 AM
In other words, monitoring the "wet" signal only out of the delay? That's very cool. So, if I have my two narrators in my booth and the guy is phasing a bit, I could use my O3D channel delay to just offset it right at the source. I will have to try this... well, even though Scott didn't want to get involved, I'm very ahppy this topic came up. It doesn't end up being too much of a problem for me in this studio, but when it does, I'm excited to try out something new. But... I would imagine that I would STILL end up editing the way I do to make up for the added sound coming through "eve's" mic, which I don't want. :) Brian Franz wrote: >>ahhhh Yes, and it does work. I'll probably get yelled at from the >>SF police, for going off topic, but if you use this technique infront >>of another engineer, they'll look at you like your a genious :-) I >>had this happen to me about 3 years back. At that time I was just >>beginning to do advertisement type work. I had originally done a lot >>of studio music work prior to this, where I had used this technique >>on micing drums. When you have an 02R you have a delay on every >>channel, so when you mic your drums you make your overheads your >>focal point and delay the rest of the mics to that reference point. >>But anyhow I was sitting in on my first advertising session being >>trained "by someone with more experience." It was an "Adam & Eve" >>Big Boy spot, where Adam was a loud obnoxious dumb guy and Eve was >>soft spoken and Sexy. Well we had this major phasing problem, so the >>guy who was training me, tried repositioning the (2)AKG414's, tried >>switching polar patterns, he was obeying the 3 to 1 rule. Everthing >>he tried didn't work....the producer started to get concerned...he >>tried to explain that he would fix it later after it was recorded... >>(your method of editing it)....well of course the producer didn't >>understand what was happening and he just wanted to make sure it >>sounded right. So now the producer was upset, so "the guy who was >>training me" looked at me and asked, "you have any ideas how to fix >>it?"....I said sure let me try something. I patched in a Yamaha >>SPX1000 into "Adams" channel, recalled a delay...the mics were about >>9 feet apart...punched in 9ms delay...had them do a sound >>check...adjusted to 9.7mS...walahh...everything back in phase and >>sounding normal. The guy that was training me had no idea what I was >>doing and thought I was a genious. After the session, I gave my >>teacher a lesson on phase and delay. :-) >> >>Hope someone else can use this info some day, >>Brian Franz >> >>Charles de Montebello wrote: >>>>Interesting, Brian. I've never tried tackling this problem with a >>>>delay. I'll have to check that out. Your're right about when both >>>>people speak - you can't get rid of that with my method. >>>> >>>>Thanks for the input, >>>>Charles, >>>> >>>>Brian Franz wrote: >>>>>>Actually Charles I do know the answer and here is an easier >>>>solution >>>>>>to overcome these phase problems. First yes, you are correct >>that >>>>>>this is a phase problem. The problem is that the man's voice is >>>>>>approximately the same level in both microphones which are >>>>seperated >>>>>>7 feet apart from each other, thus causing the phase >>cancellation. >>>>>>Seeing that sound travels at 1130 feet/sec. this averages out to >>>>>>approximately 1mS delay per foot. So the man's voice is arriving >>>>at >>>>>>the womans microphone approximately 7mS later than the one that >>is >>>>>>intended for him. So to fix this in Sound Forge you would select >>>>the >>>>>>entire Track of the Man's Voice and go into the "Effects" menu >>and >>>>go >>>>>>into the delay/Echo effect and choose "simple delay". You would >>>>>>start with a Delay time of 7mS and fine adjust this until both >>the >>>>>>Left and Right signal came back into phase with one another, >>You'ld >>>>>>most likely have a delay time of approx. 7.2mS...walah they're in >>>>>>phase and sound normal again by delaying one channel. The way >>that >>>>I >>>>>>do this in the real world when I run into this problem, is to >>patch >>>>>>the louder persons microphone channel into a delay and adjust the >>>>>>delay unit accordingly until you hear no phase cancellation. You >>>>>>could also do it the other way around too. Phase cancellation is >>a >>>>>>comb filter, the comb frequencies is dependant on the distances >>the >>>>>>microphones are seperated. If you put a delay in the softer >>>>persons >>>>>>microphone you could increase the delay until the combing >>actually >>>>>>started to occur in higher frequency ranges that are less >>noticable. >>>>>> >>>>>>I also use this first technique of delay, when multiple micing a >>>>>>guitar amp. I put a close mic on an amp and then I also put a mic >>>>>>back in the room. I then have to put a delay on the close mic to >>>>be >>>>>>able to mix the two mics together without any phase >>cancellation. >>>>>>Just use the formula 1.1mS per foot delay and tweak from there. >>>>>>You're able to get a "huge" sounding guitar using this >>technique. >>>>>> >>>>>>P.S. I believe in your solution you would still run into a >>problem >>>>>>when both voice over people talked at the same time and you >>>>couldn't >>>>>>silence the other persons channel and add room tone. I've used >>>>this >>>>>>technique also, but you always run into this problem when >>>>>>occassionally the voice over people walk on each other, that's >>why >>>>I >>>>>>added the disclaimer: on occassion both voice overs talk at the >>>>same >>>>>>time. :-) The other solution would be to put the microphones in >>>>the >>>>>>cardiode pattern and put the microphones together with the >>>>rejections >>>>>>pointed at each other, but that would give you less seperation of >>>>>>each voice over people, so that's why I gave the disclaimer of >>not >>>>>>being able to move the microphones. >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks, I hope this helps everyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Charles de Montebello wrote: >>>>>>>>Hi Brian - >>>>>>>>I couldn't tell from your post whether or not you know the >>answer >>>>>>and >>>>>>>>were just testing or if you needed and answer. I own a Voice >>Over >>>>>>>>studio in New York and occasionally run into the same problem. >>If >>>>I >>>>>>>>have two people in my booth (say, for a radio show called >>>>>>RocknRoots, >>>>>>>>which I do), I sometimes get a "boominess" out of one of the >>mics >>>>>>due >>>>>>>>to its wider cardioid pattern and due to the reflections in the >>>>>>room. >>>>>>>>I record into Vegas, but I could do the same thing in Sound >>>>forge. >>>>>>>>You basically need to silence (with room tone if necessary) the >>>>>>>>portions of speech where the other person is not speaking to >>>>>>>>eliminate the phasing occuring from what that mic is picking >>up. >>>>>>>>During the sections where they are both speaking, you're kind >>of >>>>>>out >>>>>>>>of luck. Have you tried setting up baffles in the booth? Have >>you >>>>>>>>tried different Mic patterns? Have you tried phase reversal? >>>>>>>>To overwrite portions in Sound Forge with room tone, say, >>select >>>>a >>>>>>>>portion of room tone which is plenty long and copy it (ctrl- c). >>>>>>Then, >>>>>>>>find the spots where the boomy voice is speaking and the soft >>one >>>>>>>>isn't. Select the portion on the soft track for that period and >>>>>>then >>>>>>>>right click on the selection and choose overwrite. It will put >>>>room >>>>>>>>tone there. >>>>>>>>In Vegas, just use the trimmer function to trim the edges of >>the >>>>>>>>event or copy and event with room tone into th |