Subject:Computer config tips wanted

Posted by: Pol Davril

Date:3/31/2008 6:49:47 AM

Hello,

I need a new computer and I'm looking for a suitable configuration.
It's difficult to find a computer reseller who has enough knowledge about audio workstations.
I'm posting here because Acid Pro is my main production tool.
Here are the questions :

- What about dual-core processors ?
I have been told that the Sfz+ soundfont player has issues on dual processors. Does anyone here use Sfz+ and what's the issue ? What about Sony products ?
Is it always possible to disable a processor and run like a standard one-processor system ?

- What about the memory size ?
I've been told that some plug-ins crash or do not work properly when the memory exceeds 2 megabytes. What do you think ?

- What about Windows ?
I plan to keep Windows XP on a new computer (I've got a license).
Is it always possible to install XP on a computer that comes with Vista ?

- What about dual screen ?
Are there built-in computers with dual screen capability ? Or will I have to purchase a special video card ?

Please, can you post here some types of computer brands and configurations used in audio studios, for I can have some tips and ideas.

Thanks in advance.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: Zang

Date:3/31/2008 9:17:29 AM

Check out Sonica Audio Labs http://www.shop-sonica.com/

They make great PC's for audio workstations, i recently bought their Elite Audio PC and it works great with Acid Pro, no problems at all.
I've never have any crashes with my plug-ins, and it has 4 gigs of ram installed.
Sonica PC's has dual screen capability, you should check it out.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: Cheye

Date:3/31/2008 11:39:52 AM

Have you been using Waves Plugins and the UAD-1 plugins? We have seen a lot of crashing and other problems related to these plugs and their are known issues with ACID in regards to difficutlies with these plugs. It says on the Sonica website that their computers are UAD - 1 ready which is interesting.

Cheye

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: indeepthought

Date:4/1/2008 10:04:10 AM

I know of many that use dual-core processors and I use them as well with no issues.

XP is definitely the way to go for now. You may need to unsintall Vista to do an XP install unless you go with a dual-boot option. XP is definitely more stable with audio apps.

Dual screen capabilities are dependent on your video card. Some computer sellers (typically those specializing in audio and video production computers) offer the option of upgrading your video card to one capable of dual-screen.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: Pol Davril

Date:4/2/2008 2:22:20 AM

Thanks to everyone for the answers :)
Here are some more questions.

- For any technical reason, if I have to use one core only of a dual-core processor (by the /numproc option in boot.ini), what will be the processor speed ? For example, Intel Core 2 Duo 64 Bit E6850 3GHz. Does it mean that each core has 3GHz capability ?

- I have read about "XP tuned for audio production" on shop-sonica website. What are the useless services to be turned off ? Is there a complete (and reliable) list available somewhere ?

- Is it true that installing XP instead of the pre-installed Vista voids the computer warranty ?

Thanks again.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:4/2/2008 2:59:02 AM

I wouldn't do your boot.ini change. You're stopping anything having access to the multicore setup that way. Leave it alone. Just run your application with a switch instead, to set affinity if you really need to run on less cores (you can simply select which cores to not use, even on quads)

I'll be the Vista fan, and be against the grain and say it's easily the best setup I've ever run. But it will depend on what you get as a system. I leave pretty much everything on, and my machine flies. But what you can do is "optimise it for performance" via a couple of clicks, and it will allow more performance if need be. (turns of aero, and other aspects).

There are many servicdes you can turn off, and there is indeed a suggested link (I'll try and dig it out for you). WHat you actually will turn off will vary depending on how you intend to use the machine.


With regards to warranty, it will vary from supplier to supplier. Often the OEM warranty is provided with your shipped OS, so changing that out for another can indeed invalidate the warranty. But some will provide a recovery disc, which will reinstall the computer to shipped state anyway, allowing room for experimentation.



My personal fav: Vista @ 64bit. Running mixture of 32 and 64bit programs. It's the best 64bit platform, and allows apps to have more memory than you would get in 32bit world - REALLY useful for those large samplers and multitasking. Just a little food for thought.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: thenoizzbox

Date:4/2/2008 9:57:18 AM

> - What about dual-core processors ?
> I have been told that the Sfz+ soundfont player has issues on dual
> processors. Does anyone here use Sfz+ and what's the issue ?

I have sfz+ and have tried it in my dual core system and I didn't have any issues. Keep in mind though that I didn't use it long as I have changed what I used sfz+ for in my current project (bass) to Wusikstation so I have not used sfz+ long. Also, that was in Reaper, not Acid Pro as Acid does not work well on my system (Vista Ultimate 64).

> What about Sony products ?

Acid should have no problem with a dual core processor as long as you don't use it under Vista. Acid is the only Sony product I use at this time as I haven't upgraded SoundForge yet and I don't use Vegas. I actually don't use Acid much either these days as it doesn't run well on Vista as I said. I have it installed on my second machine running XP Pro and that box also has an AMD Dual Core processor and Acid has no issue with it.

> - What about the memory size ?
> I've been told that some plug-ins crash or do not work properly when the
> memory exceeds 2 megabytes. What do you think ?

I have 4 GB on my VIsta box. None of my apps or plugins have had any trouble dealing with that. That's actually the minimum amount of RAM I'd install on a new computer that will be used for adio and running a DAW and VST effects and instruments. VIsta would see all 4 GB but. XP 32 bit cannot see more than approx 3.5 GB but I'd go with a ful 4 anyway.

> - What about Windows ?
> I plan to keep Windows XP on a new computer (I've got a license).
> Is it always possible to install XP on a computer that comes with Vista ?

Of course, just format the c: drive and install from your XP CD..

> Please, can you post here some types of computer brands and
> configurations used in audio studios, for I can have some tips and ideas.

Well, here's my system specs. If you need to run Acid now, forget Vista and stick with XP and, if it's for a studio or dedicated DAW worksation, then get a better sound card than mine of course although I must say I'm surprised how well the X-Fi Elite Pro works. Even the Creatice ASIO drivers give me no trouble. But mine is not a dedicated DAW machine.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Dual Core, ASUS Crosshair mobo (800 MHz bus), 4 GB 800 MHz Dual channel DDR2 Ram, SoundBlaster X-Fi Elite Pro, NVidia 8800GTS 640 MB DDR3, Vista 64 Ultimate SP1, 2 Seagate Barracuda SATA hard drives (system 250 GB, data 500 GB).

I had my machine built by a custom shop as I stay away from name brands. That way I feel I get a lot more bang for the buck, a better optimized machine (for a power user) and I DEFINITELY get better service. The local shop I deal with has built my last 4 computers. I also got a Windows install that was free of crap trialware and other bloat that come with most OEM installs and they gave it to me with all of the most recent Windows, drivers and bios updates up to the day I picked it up. You won't get service like that from a name brand manufacturer unless you deal with high end companies (like AlienWare for gamers).

A good custom shop should also be able to advise you well regarding the specific hardwre omponents you need even if they are not audio specialists. You might want to do some reasearch about what dedicated sound cards or other DAW specific components you may want to add to the machine.

My $0.02

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: thenoizzbox

Date:4/2/2008 10:03:12 AM

> My personal fav: Vista @ 64bit. Running mixture of 32 and 64bit programs.
> It's the best 64bit platform, and allows apps to have more memory than you
> would get in 32bit world - REALLY useful for those large samplers and
> multitasking. Just a little food for thought.

Couldn't agree more although I had to give up Acid Pro until version 7 comes out (maybe). Vista has been amazing for me and I don't understand why people are scared of it or all the FUD around it. It runs great on new machines.

Vista 64 (Ultimate) has been rock solid for me since last July and I've had a lot less issues with it than I've had with XP. I'm very happy I made the move to the 64 platform.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:4/2/2008 11:17:32 AM

FWIW, listing Sony stuff that I run in Vista 64 and Vista 32 without problems.

SF9, AMS7, Vegas7, Vegas Pro 8, CDA5.2, DVDA4.5, Cinescore (ie, all current versions of pretty much all of Sony's software, and older Vegas 7, and SF8 was ok too).

Then you can add in all the other third party stuff, such as Cubase4, Nuendo4, Reason4, Recycle, lots of refills, VSTI's (all Steinberg ones except Halion3), Antares stuff, iZotope stuff, SonikSynth, Sampletank, Adobe CS3 stuff and much more.

Brief System Spec.
Quadcore Q6600 @ 3Ghz, 8GB RAM, 5 SATA HDD's, RME ADAT card, M-Audio Firewire 1814, and much more.


Also, by having 64bit installed, when more native stuff arrives - you'll already be prepared for it. Running 64bit DAW with 64bit plugs is awesome. 64bit is better with hardware too, because drivers have to pass higher standards, the kernel is more secure.

Cack hardware = XP, great hardware = Vista 64. That would be my computer config tip.

Subject:RE: Computer config tips wanted

Reply by: Pol Davril

Date:4/14/2008 7:22:45 AM

Hi ! Thanks to everyone for the replies.

I've done it ! I have purchased a new computer for my home studio.
Here is a quick log of the installation and tweaks I've made.

System specifications
---------------------
Processor: Intel Quad Core 2.4 Ghz
Hard disk: 500 GB
RAM: 4 GB
Graphic card: NVIDIA with VGA and DVI ports
2 monitors: 19", 1440 x 900 resolution (dual display)

Operating system
----------------
Although Vista Home is preinstalled, I have made a clean install of XP Pro.
For several personal reasons :
- I've been using XP on my laptop for years without problems. So, why change ?
- I have tried Vista but I don't like it (look, security features, menu changed, etc...)
- I'm using software that is not officially supported with Vista
- I don't know enough about Vista stability and I'm starting professional recording sessions

Installation
------------
First of all, I burn a set of recovery DVD's with preinstalled OS and software.

It's a good idea to download the technical specification of the system (chipset brand and model, graphic card,...) and check if drivers exist for Windows XP.
In this case, they do exist and can be downloaded (Intel and NVidia).

When I start the XP install (boot from CD), I've got a blue screen error 0x7B.
After some searches on the web, the problem comes from AHCI that's enabled in the BIOS. Windows XP does not have generic AHCI drivers, but only IDE.
In the BIOS, I change the SATA mode from AHCI to IDE.
Now the XP installation starts sucessfully.

After XP, I install the driver for the chipset, the graphic card and the LAN connection (maybe useful for XP updates).
All other drivers (MIDI, USB ASIO driver) are installed, as well as software, plug-ins, sound libraries.


Tweaks
------
There are several web sites with tweaks for DAW's. Some tweaks are very basic (standard theme, disable screensaver, disable animated menus, disable file indexing, etc...). Other changes may be dangerous (example, disable Windows Services).
On a previous "fake" install on a test system, I've disabled a lot of Services, as explained on a web site. Unfortunately, Acid displayed errors at startup and DirectX plugins were not present (technical info : not even a DXCache created).
So, I don't advice to disable Services unless their utility is fully understood.
On my clean install, I have left all Services to their default settings. Let's be careful.
Tweaks are useful, there is no doubt. On the other hand, I remember having sucessfully mixed songs on a 500 Mhz Win98 computer with Acid Pro 4.


Other personal settings
-----------------------
I'm using the Sfz and Sfz+ plugins and, as far as I know, they do not always support multicore processors. I have been told that distortion occurs when more than 16 soundfonts are loaded at the same time (within one or more Sfz instances, I guess).
As a workaround, I have disabled the 3 other cores, just like a standard processor (2.4 Ghz).
To do this, a parameter is added in the boot.ini file (/Numproc=1).

As far as I know, Windows XP allows a maximum of 2 GB RAM to each user process. It means that ACID will run with 2 GB only, even if the physical memory is 4 GB.
For personal reasons, I'm still using Acid Pro 4. I have noticed that the memory counter turns red and displays "8/-2048" (4 GB RAM installed), although Acid runs fine with VST plugins loaded in memory.
After some tests, it seems that the limit for a "clean" memory display is 2047 MB.
So, I have tried to reduce the total memory used by Windows.
To do this, just add a parameter in the boot.ini file (/maxmem=2047).

Both settings above are optional. They depend on the software and may prevent incompatibility issues.


Some thoughts
-------------
First, I was looking for 2 standard 4:3 monitors.
As I could not find anything valuable, I have purchased 2 16:10 models (19").
I'm using a resolution of 1440 x 900 for both monitors in Dual view (one monitor on VGA, the other on DVI).
It's now hard for me to come back to a standard 1024 x 768 resolution...

About the USB ASIO driver... It's maybe incredible but, after some tests, audio seems to be better with USB v2 than USB v1.1.
The sound is less "muddy", although both USB speeds are digital signals. I'm using the same external USB audio interface and the same driver version as before.
Additional information is welcome !

I hope this report will be useful to DAW users.

After spending a week as a computer technician, I'm going back to a more creative work : composing music !

Best regards

Pol Davril
(Belgium)