Subject:How to determine track gain using SF

Posted by: cyberbeat

Date:3/12/2008 1:46:50 PM

I use SoundForge to record and cleanup audio and then save as MP3. Then I use MP3Gain to try and get the files roughly the same volume.

Even though I keep a consistent volume level across all files in Sound Forge, I always get varying track gains in the resulting MP3s.

So the problem is I'm never quite sure how the resulting volume levels will turn out in the MP3 format. Is there any way in SF to determine what the overall gain will be (such as what MP3Gain reports) prior to saving/converting to MP3?

Thanks. Any help or ideas on this would be great.

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:3/12/2008 2:31:45 PM

How are you determining your volume - by eye-sight / peak / PPM levels / other ....?

Also, what settings are you using for saving to mp3? - I would balance out the volume in SF, save as wave etc, and then make turning into mp3 the final step of all.

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:3/12/2008 5:27:16 PM

Why are you using some external cludge to dick with the gain ? Why not get it right first, in SF, before saving as MP3 ?

geoff

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: cyberbeat

Date:3/13/2008 12:05:36 PM

That's exactly what I've been doing. First I get the levels right in SF and then save as MP3. However, the levels are never the same in MP3 as they were in the original wave file.

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: cyberbeat

Date:3/13/2008 12:15:24 PM

I determine the level by looking at the wave form and using peek level values mostly. As far as MP3 settings, I use 320Kbps stereo.

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: rraud

Date:3/14/2008 9:19:35 AM

MP3gain or probably it's settings are mucking up the volume level. Get the levels right in SF and encode within SF or with winLAME or other high quality encoder.

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: cyberbeat

Date:3/14/2008 10:09:58 PM

Oh thanks. That's very helpful.

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: Greg_M

Date:3/15/2008 4:58:16 AM

cyberbeat,

Try using the statistics function in SF to see the RMS level and get the RMS levels about the same for each song. The other thing you could do is use the ppm meter and try to get them all about the same. Peak values won't work for perceived loudness.

Greg

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: cyberbeat

Date:3/15/2008 8:16:26 AM

Thanks, Greg for the response. I'll definitely try your suggestion of going by the RMS levels in SF. Do you know if the RMS level is also what MP3Gain uses when analyzing MP3s and making Gain changes?

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: Greg_M

Date:3/16/2008 5:25:40 PM

cyberbeat,

I am not sure exactly what MP3Gain uses to determine perceived volume. But if it's not working for you, it's worth trying something else. I have used the SF Statistics RMS many, many times and it works well. The other thing you might try is downloading Inspector Free from Roger Nichols digital and use some of the metering along with something like Wave Hammer to match levels.

Greg

Subject:RE: How to determine track gain using SF

Reply by: jumbuk

Date:3/16/2008 9:17:32 PM

My question is whether you really want to match perceived sound level?

If this is the case, meters etc are useful adjuncts, but ultimately your ears are the best test. That's part of the mastering process.

PS As already said, don't mess with your files after converting to MP3. The quality is downgraded in the conversion, and you don't want to be editing or processing the downgraded audio.

PPS "Gain" really refers to amplification (ie what multiple of the input is the output?), not "volume" or "SPL" or "perceived loudness" etc.