Subject:Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Posted by: thirdnostril

Date:1/25/2008 8:37:37 AM

I put a drum loop, 32 bars worth, in a track. I apply a groove. NOTHING changes. Not a thing. Are they supposed to be discernible on playback pre-rendering? Because on my computer, they're not. What am I doing wrong?

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:1/28/2008 7:30:49 AM

Bump! Anybody? Bueller?

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:1/28/2008 9:52:32 AM

Is this an acidized .wav file? If it is, you should hear changes with different grooves. Some are subtle.

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: MarkWWW

Date:1/28/2008 11:30:03 AM

Well, since you aren't telling us in much detail what you are doing it's hard to say what you are doing wrong. Probably you are using a loop that isn't acidised. If so, there is nothing for the groove to work on (no beat markers) so you won't hear any difference.

To demonstrate how it is meant to work, try this:

Start a new project. Paint in a few bars of the loop "GROOVE SPECTRUM vhPROMO 01.wav" (which you should have as part of the Startup Project that comes with Acid Pro 6.0). Play this and get the feel of it in your head. Now apply the "Polyrhythm 01" groove, one of the more extreme grooves. You cannot fail to notice the difference this groove will make.

If this works then it probably means that either you are trying to apply a groove to a non-acidised file (and that simply will never work) or you are applying one of the subtler grooves and are simply failing to notice the difference it makes.

Mark

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: VideJoe

Date:1/28/2008 1:15:51 PM

Eh..question. What exactly is a so called "acidised file"? Any type of file holding musical information accepted on the Acid time line?

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: thirdnostril

Date:1/28/2008 2:51:56 PM

Uh, no, all my loops are ACID loops proper, so they're ACID-ized, all right. I think it might be the second possibility, which I translate as "Grooves are an over-hyped semi-feature that produce no discernible difference or effect."

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: pwppch

Date:1/28/2008 3:49:50 PM

"Grooves are an over-hyped semi-feature that produce no discernible difference or effect."

Not at all. The effect can be dramatic or very subtle. It depends both on the original media and the groove.

I related this to the "I have added a reverb/EQ/Process and I must use the extreem setting to hear it" problem. The application of FX or processing can be very subtle, yet a achieve the desired and intended results within the context of the entire project.

Extreme application and processing of Grooves can yeild some bizzare results just like over processing with EQ or Compression can alter things to the point of being unrecognizable form the orignal. All depends on what it is you want to achieve.

What are your expectations of applying a groove to a given loop?

What is your reason for applying a groove to a loop/track?

Not all Grooves will affect all loops equally. It depends on both the groove and loop it is applied to. Once you understand the technology behind grooves and how they are mapped to existing loops, you will find that they lend themselves to many interesting applications.

One of the main reasons behind Grooves is to allow a loop that was not authored for the same muscial application to use the loop groove or feel of another loop. Just like any FX setting, how well a setting from one application translates to another application will vary.

In many situations the application of a groove will be subtle and that is the intent. However Grooves can be created that will produce wild effects on existing loops to the point that they sound completely different. As with any tool set, learning what can and cannot be accomplished takes time and effort.

Grooves are just another tool to process and alter audio - and this case MIDI timing as well. If the tool does not achieve your desired results, then another tool or combination of tools may. It all depends on your goals and how you apply the tools available to you.

Peter

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:1/29/2008 4:54:13 AM

> One of the main reasons behind Grooves is to allow a loop that was not authored for the same muscial application to use the loop groove or feel of another loop.

This is really key to understand. One of the most useful applications of grooves is to make loops "play well" together. For example, if you have a bass loop that is not quite sitting with a drum loop (because obviously the drummer and bass player are not playing in the same room) you can take the groove of the drum loop and apply it to the bass loop and make an ever so subtle change to the bass loop that makes it lay in the drum groove like the two musicians were actually playing off of each other. It's very effective in make to all hang together.

~jr

Subject:RE: Why Don't My Grooves Work?

Reply by: MarkWWWW

Date:1/29/2008 5:22:23 AM

Have you actually tried the very quick, simple, test I suggested? It will take you all of 10 seconds to do and it will convince you that "produce no discernible difference or effect" is simply wrong.

Mark