A different (better?) way to do a transition video

mickbadal wrote on 6/6/2007, 9:01 AM
This is dealing specifically with the case when you have a main menu and a scene selection menu on your DVD, and you want to use a "transition video" for transitioning between the main menu and Scene Selection's Page 1 that both works consistently, and has no delay between the transition video and display of the scene selection menu.

A little background: Sony's DVDA doc suggests that for transitions, you create a button, set the button's "Action" to invoke the transition video (stored in the root of your project), then set the transition video's "End Action" to invoke the target. I've found this works fine for creating a transition between the main menu and playing the "all chapters" video. However when using this approach to create a transition between the main menu and "Scene Selection (page 1)", I've not been able to get it to work; it works fine in "Preview", but the rendered DVD image jumps directly from the main menu to Scene Select (page 1), without ever playing the transition video. (I'm using DVDA 3). Possibly you've experienced the same issue. Also, with this approach there is the potential issue of a delay or black screen after the transition video, while your DVD moves to the scene selection menu.

I have an alternative approach for creating a transition video between the main menu and Scene Selection that has worked well for me. It's a little bit of work, but I think it may be more error-proof for playing on DVD players, and has absolutely no delay between the video's end and the scene selection menu displaying.

- I set Scene Select (Page 1)'s Background to your transition video. The video should flow in this manner: Screenshot of the main menu, followed by your desired transition effect, followed by the Scene Select menu's background image. Then set the loop point to where the Scene Select menu's background image begins. With the approach I'm stating here, the transition video flows immediately into the scene select menu, with no delay.

- This creates one little "hiccup": The button from Page 2 that invokes Page 1 will of course cause the transition video to play again (since it's the background for Page 1). If you actually want that to occur, you're home free. If not, then you can eliminate it by doing the following: Right click the Scene Selection menu and select "Insert > New page". (Let's say your scene selection menu had 3 pages, so this new page is Page 4). Set the background of Page 4 to be the Scene Select menu's background image. DVDA auto-adds a link on Page 3 to invoke Page 4; remove that link (so Page 4 is now orphaned). Copy all chapters/buttons from Page 1 onto Page 4 (effectively making it a "duplicate" of Page 1). Finally, set Page 2's button that invokes Page 1 to instead invoke Page 4.

Hope someone gets some value out of this. It got me out of the weeds (my "main menu > transition video > scene select menu" was not working at all on multiple DVD players when I used Sony's approach), and eliminated any delay between the transition video and scene select menu appearing.

Comments

ECB wrote on 6/7/2007, 7:40 AM
Mikbadal, when you use any of the Insert scene selection... Menu macros DVDA will set the button action to link to the new menu with no option to alter the link. Your only chioce is to create a background video for the scene selection menu as you suggest with one small change. You can get eliminate the "hiccup" by clicking on the back buttons and setting the end action to link to the loop point thereby skipping the transition.

If you are willing to work a bit you can create your own scene selection menu starting with a menu with an empty button. Link the empty button to the transition video and link the transition video to the second menu. ON this menu, your scene selection menu, add an empy button and link to each chapter point. Last, add an empty buttton to return to the main menu. If you use the same transition for several menus you can load the transition video multiple times with different end actions for each video. DVDA is smart enough to only load one copy of your transition video. With DVDA4 make sure you check the title order under File and make sure your transition video is located before the titles to minimize DVD player search to the transition video.

EB
johnmeyer wrote on 6/7/2007, 8:26 AM
And, to reduce work when you do your own menu, go ahead and temporarily let DVDA create the scene selection menu, and then cut/paste the buttons from those menus to the ones you create. Save a lot of time setting up links.
mickbadal wrote on 6/7/2007, 11:34 AM
"Mikbadal, when you use any of the Insert scene selection... Menu macros DVDA will set the button action to link to the new menu with no option to alter the link."

I understand that DVDA sets the button's action to invoke the scene selection, with no option to alter. But I didn't even use the button originally. Instead I created an **empty button** with "Action" to invoke a transition video, and then the transition video's "end action" was to invoke the scene selection (page 1). Basically I bypassed the default button. But the new button I created didn't work either in the final DVD. That's where my problem started, and ultimately led me to the solution that I stated above.

"You can get eliminate the "hiccup" by clicking on the back buttons and setting the end action to link to the loop point thereby skipping the transition."

That certainly is a better solution than creating a entire copy of Page 1 to get around the "hiccup", like I did. I will use this suggestion in the future. Thanks.
ECB wrote on 6/7/2007, 12:10 PM
"But I didn't even use the button originally. Instead I created an **empty button** with "Action" to invoke a transition video, and then the transition video's "end action" was to invoke the scene selection (page 1). Basically I bypassed the default button. But the new button I created didn't work either in the final DVD."

I duplicated your setup (with DVDA3) using Insert Scene Selection Menu and adding an empty button. I linked the empty button to a transition video and linked the transition video to the Scene Selection menu. I burned a DVD and the DVD played fine for me on a Sony DVD player. I hit the empty button and the transition played then opened the Scene selection menu. I am at a loss.

EB
mickbadal wrote on 6/7/2007, 1:32 PM
Wierd...I can't get that same setup to work. I tried it on 3 different DVD players too.

I'm curious though - using that setup, was there a delay / black screen at all after the transition video played and before the scene selection menu appeared? If so, it's a good reason to use the approach I stated here, since the transition is completely seamless.
ECB wrote on 6/7/2007, 2:39 PM
Using the menu intro and loop you are using 2 menu cells which is seamless and the best method. Using a sperarate video transition is not seemles because the the DVD player has to move to the video transistion, There is always a delay depending on the DVD player and the location of the video on the DVD. With DVDA4 you can change the order of the videoes on the DVD, which helps. Menu cells are the best choice. I wish DVDA4 offered 3 cells for intro, loop, and exit. :)

EB

<Edit> I tried a seperate transition and no black frames at the switch to the scene selection menu only a pause during the DVD player seek from the end of the transition to the scene selection menu. If you are getting black frames at this point check to make sure your audio and video tracks are the same length. Pull your transition mpeg into Vegas and check the last frame. You can hide the pause in a fade in/out like a layer change.
mickbadal wrote on 6/8/2007, 8:03 AM
"I tried a seperate transition and no black frames at the switch to the scene selection menu only a pause during the DVD player seek from the end of the transition to the scene selection menu."

Makes sense that it would be a pause rather than black frames. Regardless, the cool thing I find about the approach I stated above is that there's no pause at all - the transition ends and flows immediately and seamlessly into the chapter menu. I really like it.
Rich Reilly wrote on 10/23/2007, 6:38 PM
Especially if you want playback on a computer, check your button highlighting when using this approach.
I'm having problems with buttons/highlight masks activating at loop point. Previews fine and works on MOST hardware players but a real toss up at the software player level.
Tried the workaround of movie menu end act to still menu and software players were less sluggish but I lost highlighting after toggling back and forth a few times..as if the process maxed out the memory and it pooped out. This was Power DVD v5 and 7.
THIS IS ALL SO UNFORTUNATE.
I made some great transitional elements that I feel I can't use with so many issues.
Ultimately it simply has to play. Something is amiss here with how the eye candy features are handled.
After redoing the menu that started my inquiry based on a hardware player not seeing the buttons, it still didn't work.
Tech support says it should work. I wish it would..feel lke I got a (time consuming) glimpse at how I would do things..if only the tools and destinations would cooperate.
if you don't have control over the players the discs will be used on, I suggest folks think twice about all this.
MPM wrote on 10/24/2007, 9:56 AM
FWIW... if you have your title video at root level, right clicking and inserting scene menu places the scene menus at the root level also, instead of as a submenu to the main menu -- this gives you more button options.

If you create a menu with your transition as background, have an invisible button autoactivated when the video ends, this avoids the scripting necessary for a loop point, avoids the need to tailor returns to the menu etc., and *might* reduce the memory overhead. And yes this is something sometimes used on retail releases, so compatibility should be excellent. Please remember that the location of the transition & all other menus on the disk in part depends on where this stuff is located on the tree, i.e. top, bottom, or spread between.
Rich Reilly wrote on 10/24/2007, 12:54 PM
I did a test of this (motion menu end act to static menu)and played it in Power DVD. A few (4-5)toggles back and forth between the two menus and the button highlighting was lost.
Seems like some kind of memory blowout.
I have around 30 movies and about 75 menus.
I can't test every path, combination or duration.
If i see instabillity, I think I need to get back to basics.
At this point that seems to mean plain ole switches between static menus. Too bad..ah..if you saw what I had going. (snif)
MPM wrote on 10/24/2007, 4:22 PM
Maybe try reducing the bitrate of your menu videos?

It's common to use only 4 or 5... I've read of a debate that lower mux rate might make switching layers easier & less noticeable -- I'd think the same applies but no real control over it in DVDA.