Subject:SF9 Crash on recording

Posted by: alixx J

Date:9/18/2007 1:01:38 PM

I have just bought this programme to archive my vinyl.
When i start recording, after about 30 seconds the sound meters freeze and recording stops. This is really getting me down as i dont know how to fix it.
I chose to run my recordings into an external with a faster speed than my internal HD (i also have little room on my internal), could this is the issue?

My PC has an AMD athlon XP3200 with a gig of ram. I thought this would be well up to the task - I always cancel background programmes too.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:9/18/2007 1:54:05 PM

Please fill in your system specs and specify the audio device and driver model you are using. Please also specify the settings used in the Record dialog.

I assume the external drive is selected as the "Temporary files and record folder" in Options->Preferences->General. Any other USB devices attached?

Is it actually freezing or crashing or does it just stop? Any error messages?

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:9/18/2007 2:49:29 PM

I am using an E-MU 0404 USB soundcard coming from a pioneer DJM 800.
The only other USB ports are for printer and webcam etc.

Yes it's selected as the temporary files and record folder. The external hard drive is a 1 yr old maxtor 320 GB wit 16mb cache.
My actual PC has 120 gig HD and the processor runs at 2.20GHz

The sound meters and record button freeze and dont return to the normal state, all i can do is close soundforge and i get some kind of timeout error, i will try it again to get the exact message.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:9/18/2007 3:14:50 PM

I get a message asking if i would like to send the information of the crash to microsoft with an option also to debug the problem, when i click to debug, it says:

The instruction at "0x7c910e03" referenced memory at "0x00000000", the memory could not be "written". Click OK to terminate the programme. Then it all shuts down

I tried clicking for the details of the problem and it gave me this:

AppName: forge90.exe AppVer: 9.0.0.405 AppStamp:46c347bb
ModName: ntdll.dll ModVer: 5.1.2600.2180 ModStamp:411096b4
fDebug: 0 Offset: 00010e03.

It wouldnt let me copy and paste the rest.
The driver for my soundcard is the latest version released.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:9/19/2007 9:21:35 AM

So you are using a USB audio device to record out to a USB drive. I will venture a guess that the combination of these devices is triggering the problem. It would be helpful if you could diagnose which one it is.

1) You may want to remove unrelated USB devices while recording.

2) Assuming you are using the E-MU ASIO driver, the first thing I would try is switching to "Microsoft Classic Wave Driver" (and selecting channels for the E-MU appropriately).

3) Does it work if you record to the local drive instead of the USB drive?

4) Do you have a non-USB audio device you can try?

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:9/19/2007 10:08:16 AM

In addition to the above, and not wanting to complicate further by much.

I have seen such issues before when using multiple USB devices, as the root controller cannot handle the bandwidth of the simultaneous devices. A solution was to plug into a completely different USB controller (not just different port). Eventual long-term solution was changing the HDD to firewire interface, leaving the USB audio device freedom to resources all by itself.

Would be curious if "delayed write/read errors" are presenting themselves too

ps - this problem I refer too was not in SF, it was another app, but the symptoms are so similar I thought I would mention just in case.

Ken

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:9/19/2007 10:39:13 AM

Hi there, thanks for the quick response. I have cleared memory on my internal and am now going to give it a try - I did change settings to classic wave driver but wasnt getting any sound at all and i did try setting the correct channels etc, but nothing.

I will give an update if things improve

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:9/23/2007 5:19:08 AM

I am now recording to the internal hard drive and there is a slight improvement, i can now record for about 6 mins before a crash happens, enough time to record a single tune - mix CDs are out the question.

Im still not happy that i have this problem though, especially when it's not a cheap programme to buy.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:9/23/2007 8:00:01 AM

Process of elimnation next.

Can you use something simple like sound recorder (or other audio app) to record your imput in the manner you want, and see if that works better. I'm still going down the USB area been the issue, and at least this will help clarify whether or not it's software or hardware related. SoundForge is an awesome piece of software, so don't be disheartened by it this quick - once the problem is ironed out you'll love it lots.

Ken

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:9/25/2007 10:52:06 AM

The next time you encounter a hang or freeze and have to end-task, please run the tool described in this knowledge base article and forward the results to tech support.

Thanks,
J.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:9/25/2007 1:35:24 PM

ok, thanks for that, at what exact point do i take the snap shot? is it when the actual freeze occurs? or when i have to close it down and the error boxes come up?

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:9/26/2007 7:13:23 AM

While it is frozen.

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: Simonm

Date:9/27/2007 9:04:49 AM

You still haven't said what system specification you have:
What processor, what OS and how much memory (RAM, not disk space)? It appears to be a performance-related thing (but it may not be).

On USB: it's a bus topology. When you write to the disk, it's doing this:

HOST:=============DISK---------------------AUDIO I/F

In other words the data has to come from the audio interface (i/f),
into the host controller and back out to the disk, crucially all at the same time.

If something in the chain isn't fast enough, perhaps the USB connection or the host computer (or whatever), this can cause serious problems, especially if you're using 24/96 recording. If you also have other USB items connected to the same bus (you mentinoed a printer and video camera), they will have the effect of slowing things up too, possibly even when you think you're not using them (depends on how their drivers and firmware are written).

The above is nothing to do with Sound Forge, and the problems caused by having too many devices on the same bus aren't unique to USB either.

I'd suggest some simple tests too, to help diagnosis:

1. try with everything except the sound card and disk unplugged from the USB bus. If you can, try to get the two on *different* USB contollers on the system, as this will help.

2. try a lo-fi recording: 22kHz sampling frequency and 8-bit resolution. Compared to 24/96, this is approx 1/12 (one twelfth) the amount of data that has to travel on the USB bus, and should be OK with the slowest of disks and USB connections.

Finally, don't believe everything you read about disk speed. The sustained (continuous) transfer rate to disk is what matters, and it's a number disk manufacturers are often reluctant to give out, as it doesn't look nearly as good as either "burst mode" or bus data rate. This is because disks have a RAM buffer built-in, to make them more responsive in computing applications, but it serves no purpose for 'isochronous' transfers, such as audio recording. The RAM makes the burst-mode speeds look very good, when the underlying performance may not be.

As a rule of thumb, for any given disk generation, the bigger the physical size, and the bigger the capacity, the faster the disk will be.

Sound Forge will work fine at CD quality (16bit/44.1kHz) with a USB audio interface. I use my HP laptop on location to record hours at a time like this, fed from an M-Audio Transit USB interface.

Hope this helps - try some controlled experiments and post the results!

Cheers,

S.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:9/28/2007 7:30:43 PM

Thanks for the detailed post, i have 1 gig of ram, possibly i could do with upgrading this, would this help?

I will give it a go recording at the lower sample rate because i have been using 24/96 to do all my recordings. But i guess CD quality will do as i have been recording my vinyls primarily to use with serato scratch live.

After playing around some more I can only think that you are right about it being the data transfer speed over the USB, as when i had soundforge 7.0, i was recording at full 24/96 quality no problem, but back then i was using my internal standard soundcard. The problems have started since i got the external sound card and upgraded to SF 9.0.

Subject:RE: SF9 Crash on recording

Reply by: alixx J

Date:10/21/2007 3:00:43 PM

I have tried all the suggestions given above but none seem to have worked. I have since given up on using my desktop and am now using my laptop which handles recording no problem, even at maximum sample rate.