Subject:Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Posted by: RichRandal

Date:9/24/2007 10:43:10 PM

I'm sure this is simple, I'm just too new to this.

I recorded 1 hour of live band songs from a PA board onto a CF card as 1 long track. Transferred to computer and added it to a new project. Rendered regions into new tracks. No problem using another program to grab those files and burn them to a CD.

But - - - it is too raw. I am able to put some compression and EQ in a chain, and either assign it to the Master or to each track. It plays with the effects within ACID.

I can't figure out how to get the "effected" tracks burned to CD. "track-at-once" and the other "at-once" functions would not do it. (Reading all tracks as needing 3:38 of time each...wtf?)

Do I have to re-render? I need step-by-step assistance, please. I'm willing to go back to the long original file and start over if necessary.

Thanks!

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/25/2007 5:15:42 AM

Did you place Track Markers (N) so that ACID knows where the tracks are? It sounds like you want to use Disc-at-once by placing all of the songs on the timeline as One-Shots exactly as you want them. Then add track markers. If you want a 2 second gap between songs you will have to do this manually with Disc-at-once. If you want one track to follow into the next there is no need to add gaps. Just use the track markers to delineate the tracks. I would look up CD burning in the Help file for a step-by-step on how this is done.

~jr

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/25/2007 7:14:32 AM

Thanks for the tip. Actually, (each track is a complete pre-mixed song from the PA) I had the tracks stacked up with the beginnings at Time Zero for all. I put one Track Marker at time zero.

You're saying that I need to make each song clip an event in one long track? Or, each song clip stays in its own track but does not start until the one above it ends? This should solve my Disc-at-once problem, whichever is the right method.

Is it better for my purpose to put the FX chain on the Master, or on each track? If I get disc-at-once to burn, the FX will definitely be there without re-rendering?

I WILL do more Help file.;..but you know how much of a slog that is if you don't know the perfect keyword sequence to find your problem...THANKS!

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/25/2007 7:54:05 AM

For anyone following this, this is from the Sony Knowledge Base: Answer 314.

Step 1: Rendering out your tracks

Using the Loop Region selection tool, outline the portion of your mix you would like as your first track.
Select File -> Render As and save this as a 16-bit, 44,100hz, Stereo .wav formatted file, making sure that the Render Loop Region Only checkbox is selected.
Move the Loop Region around the next portion of your mix you would like to be the second track.
Select File -> Render As and save this as a 16-bit, 44,100hz, Stereo .wav formatted file.
Repeat step 3 and 4 until your entire mix has been rendered out to separate tracks.
Once the files have been rendered out, you will be able to burn them to CD in ACID.

It goes on to explain the process for burning. With older versions, the track-at-once requires a new project where you place your tracks one at a time, then delete and go to the next after each track burn. (without closing the disc until after the last one.) Disc-at-once on 6.0 will burn several if you use Track Markers, I believe you have to generate your own space between tracks, where track-at-once would put 2 seconds in.

Back to my original problem getting effects on the final tracks: It appears if I put effects on the original master track, then clip out song regions and render, then follow either procedure above, it will work. I should find out in the next couple of days if it does.

thanks, Johnny.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/25/2007 9:58:11 AM

Tracks in ACID are not equal to tracks on a CD.

Put your "CD tracks" one after the other in ACID either on multiple tracks or on a single tracks (ACID 6 only).

You then select each "CD track" and type the letter "n". This will insert track markers for CD buring. Do this for each "CD track" event.

Select "Tools | Burn Disk-at-Once Audio CD..."

This is all covered in the ACID users manual and in the on-line help.

Peter

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/25/2007 11:01:29 AM

Thank you. I understand that procedure now.

Is it most effective (heh) to put the effects chain:

On the long file before I cut out the song regions and render them to new tracks -
a) on the long file track or
b) on the Master (bus)

Or

On each song region rendered track afterward -
a) on the track or
b) on the Master (bus)
?

In other words, what is the right order and effects location for the work steps to go from a raw, long file (track) to burned audio tracks with effects on a final CD copy?

The manual addresses these steps separately but I have not been able to sort out the step order that is best for my objective.

Thanks!

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/25/2007 1:12:42 PM

Hokay. I put the effects on each track. I spread the tracks each on its own line, beginning after the previous one has ended. I put Track Markers on each one. the last track ends at 68 minutes. I am using an "80 minute" 700 Mg disc.

When I go to Disc At Once I get: "Warning Disc Length Exceeds 74 Minutes. (during validation of your PQ list for strict RedBook compliance.)

I cut one track off, same answer. Now what?

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/25/2007 2:33:07 PM

Hokay (2)

I went with Track-At Once. Clicked on the track marker, then selected the track. Ran it 16 times, (selection only, close after the last one) once for each track. What I got was a CD that reported out as a successful burn, with 19 tracks, 2 of them 13 seconds long, the rest 3:37 each. It does not produce any sound in my player.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/25/2007 4:59:46 PM

It depends on what you want to do. Does each CD track need seperate FX processing or is this an overall process.

If the former, then each ACID track that represents a CD Track could have FX on them.

If the latter, then you should consider an Assignable FX send and master bus insert FX.

There is no single way to do this. You have to determine what you need.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/25/2007 5:01:38 PM

I am unable to reproduce this proglem. Try saving your project, exiting ACID and reloading the project.

If you place the cursor at say 65 minutes and hit play, when does ACID stop playing?

If you render this project as a single wave file to disk, how long is the resultant file?

Peter

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: drbam

Date:9/25/2007 5:08:35 PM

Personally I'd render all the tracks to a single stereo file and then insert your markers and burn.
Ignore the warning and just do a DAO burn. Double check to see that you have all of your tracks routed to the master bus and that your project "plays" in the way that you want it to on the CD. The two 13 second tracks are probably errors in how you placed the track markers - double check these. Take your time, go slow and methodically and double-check everything.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/25/2007 7:02:58 PM

Thanks you two.

Will try some of this tomorrow.

Here are some more details.

I'm running 6.0 Build 214.
All Clip properties have been changed to One Shot.
The Named and Saved FX Chain on each track consists of Track Compressor then EQ and Reverb in one module from ACID FX.
No FX on the Master.

After the last clip, it runs silently out to 16+19:05:72 then stops.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/25/2007 9:07:51 PM

After the last clip, it runs silently out to 16+19:05:72 then stops.

Where does the last track actually end?
Where is the last marker placed at?

Peter

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/26/2007 7:22:40 AM

16th Track is 3:24:38 long, ends at 1:08:18, or 16+ 3:24:38. Last Marker is at the start of that track. So it plays silently for 15:41:34 after the end of track 16.

Not sure how this affects getting audio to the CD for the previous tracks, or the fact that with TAO all tracks show as 3:37 in length.

There are a couple of 2-3 second gaps between the end of one track and the marker and start of the next. All the rest are lined up with no gap.

The same FX is adequate for all tracks for my purpose. I will have to double check the routing to the Master bus, and how to do assignable FX there per drbam above.

Thanks again, all.

At the risk of confusing the topic - it would be excellent if I could fade the volume in and out on each song on the burned CD. I would like to take this and clip a 1.5 to 2 minute section of the best songs to create a demo disc. Point being that a venue manager will probably only take 10-15 minutes to listen, so 7 or 8 short cuts that present the variety of sounds we create would be best. Fade in and out between samples. (I still want the full CD for band use.)

How to do the fades?

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/26/2007 7:39:14 AM

Note that the source file is one long 'track.' There is talking and room static in between songs I do not want. I decided to clip the song regions I wanted out and render to new tracks. I could instead erase what I don't want and move the remaining together.

"Render all tracks to a single stereo file..."

What command order will do this?

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/26/2007 8:03:52 AM

We are looking at the problem.

How to do the fades?
You can use volume envelopes or cross fades - among other techniques.

Again, automation and envelopes are covered in the user's manual.

Peter

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/26/2007 8:06:28 AM

What command order will do this?
File|Render As...

You really should have a look at the oneline help and user's manual.

This is basic stuff that is covered in these sources. I think you will find many features discussed in there that will help you.

Peter

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/26/2007 3:48:09 PM

Indeed.

Individual steps are well described.

The order of steps to get from beginning material to the desired end material is not so clear.

I am intelligent and diligent, and would not have come here if my Help research had answered my questions.

thank you.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/26/2007 8:31:03 PM

The order of steps to get from beginning material to the desired end material is not so clear.
I don't follow you.

There are are no steps to render other than to select "Render As..." from the File menu.

What process to you need steps for?

Peter

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/26/2007 8:50:46 PM

As I said above:

" Is it most effective (heh) to put the effects chain:
On the long file before I cut out the song regions and render them to new tracks -
a) on the long file track or
b) on the Master (bus)
Or
On each song region rendered track afterward -
a) on the track or
b) on the Master (bus)

In other words, what is the right order and effects location for the work steps to go from a raw, long file (track) to burned audio tracks with effects on a final CD copy? "

However, I have now copied the tracks to one new track, in order, with Track Markers, applied FX to that track, saved that as a new project, and succeeded with Disc-At-Once.

Thanks for all your help!

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:9/26/2007 9:09:14 PM

I can't see how any of those 4 choices you list would be any different from each other. The result should be identical in all 4 cases.

Since you now see how track markers and Disc-At-Once burning work, you may also notice that it's not necessary to save separate files for each song. Keep working with the original long file, cut out the parts you want to get rid of, place track markers, and burn.

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:9/27/2007 3:49:17 AM

> In other words, what is the right order and effects location for the work steps to go from a raw, long file (track) to burned audio tracks with effects on a final CD copy?

Since you only have one track there is no right order. What you are doing is mastering the final output so I would put the FX on the Master Bus so that if you do decide to place each song on a separate track later, they will all still have the same FX applied. Otherwise you can put the FX on the single track or master bus, it's the same thing when there is only one track.

~jr

Subject:RE: Burning Tracks to CD w/ Effects

Reply by: RichRandal

Date:9/28/2007 4:23:46 PM

Yup - that makes sense. thanks.