Audio Question

Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 8/28/2007, 4:09 PM
I am not sure but why does my audio sound so perfect on my comptuers sound system when I am editing it and it sounds so horrible when I burned it to a cd and listen to it in either my car or on my dvd player? Is it my rendering? Any ideas? I am sure someone would like a sample for I need some serious help here as I am just confused.

D

Comments

farss wrote on 8/28/2007, 4:51 PM
How horrible are we talking about here?
Do you mean it's missing the 14th coat of wax or is it like really woeful?
A couple of things to keep in mind, DV uses 16bit 48Hhz, CD is 16bit 44.1KHz and in Vegas if changing sample rates it pays to set the Audio resample qulaity to Best in the Project if changing sample rates.
Other possibilities are that your computer sound system is a very different environment to your car. Part of the black art of mastering is getting it to sound good in both environments. Studios typically have a set of megadollar monitors AND a set of typical car radio speakers and switch between the two to check the mix on both.
However you say your music also sounds bad on the DVD player so maybe something really basic is going wrong or of course the obvious question, just what is your computer sound system?
If it's a typical gaming sound system, that could explain a lot. It will not of course do anything to the sound but it'll cause you to make some bad decisions if you're mixing or mastering.

Bob.
Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 8/28/2007, 5:01 PM
I am using the typical 5.1 Logitech speakers, nothing fantastic. Maybe that is my problem that I am hearing out of the computer what I want but that is giving me a false product. What do I do and I am sure the obvious response here...to get other speakers. I am down to two motnhs before my premiere and I am beginning to feel the stress mount. Any help would be appreciated.
blink3times wrote on 8/28/2007, 5:14 PM
Is your sound card set up to give a dead flat response (no added bass, treble)? Many of these sound cards have lots of little filters and such to give different sounds and echoes... all of this stuff should be turned off. The other thing to remember is that with a computer, your speakers are a lot closer then they normally would be. Try if you can to get the speakers as far away as possible.

It would also help if you could explain exactly what you are hearing that is not the same... more/less mid tones, more/less noise...etc
TGS wrote on 8/28/2007, 5:16 PM
What type of soundcard are you using? Where do your output levels peak at, on playing back in the timeline? Do you render a new master track from the original audio before rendering to CD or DVD? How is it recorded? Is it Multi-track or is it a stereo camera sound turned into artificial 5.1? Are you using any other audio software besides Vegas? Are you talking about both Music and Speech? Is the problem that it sounds "TOO HOT" when played back on a DVD/CD player?
When playing back sounds on your computer, do they all sound okay whether it's Vegas or WMP or any other computer software player or does the sound vary depending on which player? I"m fishing for clues.
Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 8/28/2007, 5:47 PM
My sound card is Creative Sound Blaster X-fi. Yes, I do render a new master from original audio before rending to cd/dvd. My software is only Sound Forge and Vegas and I am talking about speech and music. It sounds way off, like it has no life, I guess it would be hot. Everything on my computer sounds great no matter what is playing. The narration was recorded through the camera by using an external mic.
Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 8/28/2007, 5:58 PM
One problem I just realized is I have too much coming out of the center channel so it doesn't feel alive...does that make sense?
rs170a wrote on 8/28/2007, 6:10 PM
I am using the typical 5.1 Logitech speakers, nothing fantastic. Maybe that is my problem...

It most certainly is.
You already know the solution and that's to buy a good set of speakers.
M-Audio used to have a decent 5.1 package but they dropped them a while back :-(
Hopefully someone else can offer suggestions for a speaker package that won't require a 2nd mortgage.

Mike
blink3times wrote on 8/28/2007, 6:55 PM
I have the x-fi as well (the elite pro)... they're good sound cards but they "color" the sound pretty good. I found that I have to dumb my X-fi down pretty good to get a match with my home sound system.
Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 8/28/2007, 7:29 PM
How would I dumb it down?
blink3times wrote on 8/28/2007, 8:37 PM
What I did was trial and error stuff. I have my computer and my home sound system in the same room, which made things a little easier... set up the home stereo for a flat response, and play a good selection in your cd player and note how it sounds. Now play it in your computer and adjust as best you can for that sound. You may have to do it a 1/2 dozen times or so. When it is done you will then be assured that at least your outputs sound the same. So NOW... if you get a different sound on one of your own recordings, then you will be REASONABLY sure that it is something on the INPUT side that is causing the difference.

On my X-FI I did notice that I had to cut WAY back on the bass... the subwoofer on my computer seems to be MUCH more emphasized than that of my home system. (I'm using logitech 5.1's as well)
TGS wrote on 8/28/2007, 9:33 PM
First, these are not instructions on dumbing down your audio card...
It may be impossible to determine the problem over the internet.
First thing I would check, is that your Master Mixer volume is set, so all six channels (5.1) are set to 0.0. It should say 0.0 under each meter. (I still haven't done 5.1 mixing, so I'm guessing here.)
Then either using a volume envelope for each recorded audio track or using the individual slider volume of each recorded audio track, back the level down until the sum total of all tracks does not exceed 0.0 in the Master Mixer (doesn't go in the Red) I would average the levels between -3.0 and -2.0dB with peaks rising a little higher from time to time. But make sure what you're hearing is mixed the way you'd like. Or as close as possible.
Generally, the center channel is for voice only. Sometimes to get a good mix, you may need to set all the speakers right next to each other, (stack them in a small space if you have to) turn the volume on the speakers down fairly low and adjust the volumes until you can hear everything the way you'd like or get very close. It's hard to get a good mix at loud volumes. (Keep in mind, all the VU meters in the 5.1 output, may register differently) Try to use your ears for balancing the levels of sound and your eyes for making sure the total output doesn't go in the Red. I may have said to keep the levels averaging between -3 and -2dB, but they can be less than that. I mean try to average that when the volume is at its loudest. The end product can be brought up near zero when ready. This is for eliminating distortion and trying to get the mix to settle in.
Separate the speakers for adjusting the balance or for making sure what you want is coming out of the speaker you'd like.
If that helps, then maybe I can offer more advice. But I'm still fishing.
If you're running any effects in your current mix, like compression, describe how it's applied.
farss wrote on 8/28/2007, 9:48 PM
One could checkout Edirol or the Behringer knockoffs of the Edirols. Neither of those come in a package from memory, just buy enough speakers to do the job.

One word caught my attention, "premiere", if this is through a cinema sound system it's generally a good idea to keep all dialogue in the centre channel. Like all these things not chiselled in stone of course.

But please, do yourself a favour. Buy a copy of Jay Rose's book "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video", CMP Books, ISBN 1-57820-116-0. He covers much about mixing for surround in cinemas and heaps more as well.
Cincyfilmgeek wrote on 8/29/2007, 7:29 AM
Speaking of which, the place we are holding it is an older ampitheater and it does not have a center channel, only left, right and subwoofer. How will the mix be converted if the project is done in 5.1?
TGS wrote on 8/29/2007, 12:57 PM
It won't. But you can have 2 or more separate audio tracks on a DVD. One can be 5.1 and the other can be stereo. The Stereo will work better in the Amphitheatre. You can choose your choice from the remote control of the DVD player you're using.
When I make a DVD, I can drag in a second audio clip in DVD-A and I don't have to do anything else besides making sure the time lengths are exactly the same on each clip. Stereo will be easier to mix. Maybe you don't need 5.1 at all.
When viewing on DVD player, the remote has a button that says 'audio' and pressing it will usually bring up your choices on the screen (A-Stereo B-5.1) highlight the one you want. (It may just offer 'A' or 'B', I don't think it will tell you the type without setting it up with a title too)
I don't think 5.1 alone will work right in a Stereo player. 4 Channels won't be played unless the player is decoding the 5.1, which I doubt.
The Amphitheatre is probably just using stereo and the Sub woofer is just taken synthetically, from the stereo signal, like most 2.1 speaker systems.
dand9959 wrote on 8/29/2007, 1:39 PM
I'm experiencing a similar problem.

I'm burning a DVD using DVDA4. Audio is all .ac3.

DVD plays beautifully in all players, my home theater system, computer.

However, I had the opportunity to play it in a movie theater (one that rents itself out for business meetings - can project using a DVD player). Here, the audio was awful...the music seemed "okay" but the voice was way blown out. Unlistenable as if everything was clipped.

Audio technician at the theater told me that the audio signal on the DVD was recorded too weak. Does that make sense. How do I fix that? (I already normalized it in Vegas.)

Any suggestions as to what my next trial should be?
TGS wrote on 8/29/2007, 2:20 PM
So a search here, on correcting ac3 levels. It's been covered many times.
The theatre probably had a lousy amplification system, as this correction is not that big of a difference. Unless you really were unusually low. My guess is the theatre had a weak amplifier and when you turn most amps past the half way mark, they start distorting.
Doing it this way requires that you render your own ac3 file, and then render your mpg2 separately. This gives you the ability to set up your ac3s the way you'd like, than the usually mediocre default setting. Just be sure to use the exact same loop for both the ac3 and the mpg2. Except for the extension at the end, title both files the same and put them in the same folder and when you import one into DVD-A, the other will come with it. Or title anyway you want and drag into DVD-A one at a time.