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Subject:Recording functionality
Posted by: jamez_p
Date:6/25/2007 5:44:08 AM

I have a question about the recording dialog box. All the other audio programs I have used allow you to select the source as the very first option when you hit Record. ie: Line in, Digital In, Mic, Mix. or whatever inputs your soundcard has. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but it looks like Soundforge requires you to switch to your OS sound manager and/or the Soundcard manager to select the record source there. This is a nightmare, particularly if you frequently record from different inputs on the same soundcard. Is there a way of selecting the record source from within Soundforge?

Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date:6/25/2007 7:29:20 AM

Go to Options->Preferences->Audio and change the driver model to "Windows Classic Wave Driver". You may wish to modify default playback and record routing there as well.

Either way, all the device options will then be available directly from the Record dialog.


Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: jamez_p
Date:6/26/2007 1:30:47 AM

OK thanks. After much reading the record help (3 times) and clicking everything I could see in the Record window I finally found it. So you have to click the L&R level meters to select the input source. How about a new field, called source, right at the top? Maybe it's my workflow/warped mind, but when I click Record I kind of assumed the first thing it would ask me is 'what source do you want to record?'. My L&R record level meters had actually defaulted to CD in L and CD in R and this was not immediately obvious because there is no dedicated and visible field for source. Also is there any chance of improving the level meters? They need to be more arrurate and ideally a much smaller scale, particularly around (below&above) the 0db mark to get a decent recording level. Changing the input record volume level also seems impossible from the Soundforge Record window, or is it hidden away somewhere? Thanks again.

Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: rraud
Date:6/26/2007 8:40:24 AM

The input level must be changed via your soundcard or externally.
One used to be able to fully resize the level meters. However you can change the resolution by right-clicking the meter and choosing "Peak Range". More accurate???. These are Full Scale (FS), anything above 0dB is clipped and how much above IS indicted. They also concur with expensive hardware meters.. The new phase meter is a joke though. RMS meters are also available by right-clicking and choosing VU/PPM.

Message last edited on6/26/2007 8:45:39 AM byrraud.
Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: jamez_p
Date:6/28/2007 1:07:27 AM

Thanks for the info. Any particular reason why Soundforge can't control the input record levels? It's already got a handle on all the soundcard inputs via the ASIO drivers, right? A simple volume control on top of the level meters (like other audio editors have) would make sense.

Arrurate probably not the right word, the resolution tip you mentioned makes it slightly better. I suppose I'm used to analogue meters with a very fine db scale and coloured indicator lights at each db, bells, whistles etc. so I can see exactly and very clearly what levels are coming in.

I think the root of my problem is having to switch to the OS and/or the soundcard control panel every time I want to change input record levels. I record from various sources (analogue DJ mixer, digital studio mixer, MIC, directly from a turntable, CD, MD, etc) all permanently connected to my soundcard. Just seems ludicrous having a great audio editor but having to use windows to control recording levels?!

thanks again.

Message last edited on6/28/2007 1:08:15 AM byjamez_p.
Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: timo75
Date:6/28/2007 3:52:45 AM

I don't see any reason why there should be a input level control. Input levels should be adjusted at the AD-converters, or at the preamps, not in the recording software. Clipping occurs always in hardware, not within the software (when recording). Raising gain can always be done after record, but not so removing clipping.

An input level control in software cannot prevent you from clipping. It just lets you to oversee clipping at the AD-converter, because you are not able anymore to see it on your software level meters.

EXCEPT - if you have remote controlled gainstages in your ADs, then it would be great to have a gain knob beside the record button... but those are very rare yet...

... or am I missing something? ...

Message last edited on6/28/2007 3:53:28 AM bytimo75.
Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: pwppch
Date:6/28/2007 8:48:42 AM

You are not missing anything.

In general, there is no consistent way to control the hardware levels through the drivers. Some hardware vendors support this, but it is rare.

So, controlling the input post A/D would solve nothing if the clipping occurs pre -A/D. You would still get a clipped signal recorded, but it would have an overall lower gain (clips would not be at 0 db, but at the post A/D gain setting.)

The levels should be set externally to the hardware or using the hardware's controls - if it has any.


Message last edited on6/28/2007 8:50:06 AM bypwppch.
Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: rraud
Date:6/28/2007 10:12:50 AM

jamez, As an old-school engineer I see your point on metering, however, FS metering IS absolute.. Your ears can determine how many "overs" are acceptable. Usually... a few samples are not audible depending on the content.
It is the norm to run multiple inputs through a mixer, (for example the Mackie-1202 ) Using line-in(s) and line-out, additional noise should be negligible.

Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: Geoff_Wood
Date:6/29/2007 12:34:24 AM

Dude - before you go demanding all sorts of things because the app doesn't work the way some toy recording app might, get a little familiar with Sound Forge and pro audio apps in general.

No "arrurate" is definitely not the right word - try "accurate" ;-)

You only have to set the default soundcard device once. In the record dialogue you can choose what inputs of that device you use. This works for just fine for most people. Would you really like to be pestered with a "Now choose you soundcard" Wizzard every time you went to record something ?

Why do the meters need to be 'more accurate' ? If one is anal about setting peaks to within a fraction of a dB fom zero, you can do this just fine with the peak hold function To do what you want, I suspect you really need a non-linear graticule, which would totally stuff up most users.

And what is the point of have a graticule OVER 0dB in a peak-reading PCM meter ?

There is, and should be, no input level control in SoundForge. And those on most soundcard mixer appplets should also be avoided as they can dick with the signal quality dependant only on the quality of the soundcard manufacturer. And even then you can only ever be losing quality whenever a level change is made other than 'zero'. Unless your soundcard has volume control on the *analogue* side, any level adjustments should be made in the aanalogue source.

Hope this helps.


Message last edited on6/29/2007 12:42:32 AM byGeoff_Wood.
Subject:RE: Recording functionality
Reply by: jamez_p
Date:6/29/2007 1:23:25 AM

OK thanks for the info.

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