Subject:SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to cursor

Posted by: Avene

Date:4/14/2007 7:27:39 AM

Just upgraded from SF7 to SF9 and have only really started working with the program tonight.

Anyway, here's the problem - I highlight a section of audio and click on one of the edges of that selection, say the end. I zoom into that end point using the mouse wheel so I can edit it much more precisely. But it doesn't zoom to the end, it zooms to somewhere in the middle! I can left click to roughly the same position and the zoom will then zoom to that position, but I then lose my selection in the process. It's frustrating.

I just want to be able to do this in the same way as the older versions of Sound Forge I've used in the past. Those being 5 & 7. Is there perhaps a default setting that needs to be changed to fix this, or is it a bug?

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: Avene

Date:4/16/2007 6:50:29 AM

Anybody? I'm back to using SF7 until I can get this working. I can't find anywhere to fix it in the parameters either.

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/16/2007 8:10:39 AM

There does appear to be a discrepancy here. The edge should stay on screen, as in previous versions. I will investigate further.

Temporary workaround: Special->Center Cursor (default keyboard shortcuts: '\', '.', and Numpad '*').

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: Avene

Date:4/16/2007 9:12:10 AM

Great, thanks for that.

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/16/2007 12:10:04 PM

I can recreate it, too, but only at the end of the selection, not at start. For me it is not a big issue, but I can understand your rant. Sony did change so many little things with this upgrade, most of them without any reason.

For me, one of the biggest issues is that the cursor isn't centered anymore after selecting a marker via Ctrl-left / Ctrl-right. Just one more unnecessary change that I cannot understand at all...

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: _TJ

Date:4/18/2007 9:24:52 PM

most of them without any reason.

All of these little changes were to make Sound Forge, our oldest product, behave more like ACID and Vegas, which have more modern UI's. The changes make the UI more 'correct' in the sense of following standard Windows behavior, but more importantly, they reduce the burden on people who frequently move back and forth between ACID, Vegas, and Sound Forge.

Sound Forge was the odd man out, behavior wise, and since we were forced to break some things about the interface in order to make more than 2 channels work, we also took the opportunity to bring Sound Forge's behavior more in line with our other products.

When you extend the selection the cursor is not supposed to move: this is the correct Windows behavior - whereas in older versions of Sound Forge when you extend the selection, the cursor moves to the end you just extended. This in turn has a subtle impact on the focal point of zooming, since when we zoom in, we use the cursor as the focal point when the selection is too large to fit on the screen.

The old Sound Forge way of doing things might have been more efficient in some use cases, and we can look into the possibility of putting in some retro hacks for special cases, like centering the cursor when you Ctrl+Left/Right. But I would also encourage you to give the new UI a chance, it really is more correct and consistent.

tj

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/19/2007 3:32:01 AM

I agree with you to give new techniques a chance. There are lots of enhancements in the new version, that are adorable. But in some cases they are just restrictions, that destroy a workflow without giving an adequate alternative.

Examples:
- the new seek behaviour
- the not anymore in width sizable level meters
- the cursor-on-screen- placement after Ctrl-left/right
- the new 'zoom normal' behaviour (though I still believe it's a bug)
- the new mark in/out function, esp. while playback is running (I bet this is a bug, too)
- the new way to expand selections with shift key, which is clearly not windows conform
- ...

I found it quiet arrogant to prefer Vegas/ACID users and piss on old SF users. For me, I never found vegas a very intuitive software and always liked SF's behaviour much more, as it makes editing faster and clearer. This was the most important plus compared to wavelab, peak & co. I see this melting away, what makes me truely sad.

I feel, lots of the changements are politics, and have nothing to do with workflow and effectiveness. The concept of SF is many years old and very approved. I see no reason to change it, except they improve the workflow in a clear and gentle way. Improving means for me to add new features or enhance existing to extend possibilities, but not restrict or remove them.

Just my 2 cents.

Timo

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: Avene

Date:4/19/2007 3:45:22 AM

Hi TJ, thanks for the explanation. I have no problem with Sound Forge working more like Vegas or Acid as I use both of those also. On that note, if only Acid worked more like Vegas and didn't crash all the time, life would be even easier.

Anyway, I've just come accross another old feature that seems to have vanished from Sound Forge. I'm not sure if this is intentional or another bug. In the older versions of SF, if you had some audio selected but accidently clicked elsewhere and lost the selection, you could hit Shift+S and your selection would return. This no longer works. Is there a different shortcut for this function or has it been changed or removed?

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/19/2007 6:49:10 AM

Just press 'S', like in SF8, without Shift. This function is now even better, as it works a whole selection history. Hit 'S' several times to go back to your last selections.

Btw, this is a enhancement, as I mentioned. It extends a previous function without removing or restricting it...

Btw2, I also have no problem to bring the 3 apps more together. But at least, important habits should stay optional for those, how need it. Like a switch in the prefs "no vegas mode" or whatever. Maybe you have had luck this time, but imagine how you would feel if the 'S'-command was removed in order to be more compatible with other software you don't use... it is like if you buy a new car and steering was on the floor, while acceleration/brake pedals on the top. All you get from the vendor is: we now make all our cars like that...

Cheers,
Timo

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/19/2007 2:04:23 PM

- I think I already mentioned in the other thread that we'd make the seek behavior optional (or restore the old behavior)
- mark in/out is different (and quite handy if you play with it), but what you are seeing during playback is a bug that will be fixed
- the inability to click-then-drag while Shift is down will be fixed
- the scroll-zoom issue with left-to-right selections will be fixed

Arrogantly ;-),
J.

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: Avene

Date:4/20/2007 2:47:03 AM

Oh ok, cheers. I've only just come from SF7 which was still shift+s

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: drew_

Date:4/27/2007 2:42:51 PM

This is all good news J!

My only question would be, do you have any idea when?

I'd like to take advantage of the loyalty upgrade offer that's on until the end of May but really it would be strange paying for the new version until it has the same behaviour I've been used to since version 4!

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: drew_

Date:5/18/2007 9:11:15 AM

Can anyone confirm if any of this was addressed & resolved in 9.0a update?

Many thanks

drew

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: timo75

Date:5/19/2007 4:21:51 AM

Afaik, the 9.0a update already existed when this thread was born. so, no, none of the above mentioned problems are resolved until now.

Correct me, if I'm wrong...

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: Jay Z

Date:5/19/2007 5:55:51 AM

Just a quick comment from a new user...I certainly understand and respect the desire and the need to support the look and feel of a program that long time users are used to...Howsoever, any company wanting to grow their business has to attract new customers. One of the main reasons I finally decided to buy all of the SCS software that I just did (Vegas 7 +DVD(A4), SoundForge 9 (w/CDA5.2), and Cinescore was the consistent look, feel and integration of the programs...For me, having like interfaces and consistency in operation is a huge plus in getting up to speed on the software...I had Sonic Foundry many years ago, and had gotten away from it, so the migration in the products to Soundforge up to and including the current version passed me by...I guess for me, it's a win-win situation...If they can incorporate a way to selectively switch from current functionality and operation to the way it was in years gone by (to satisfy the older users), that would be real cool...I just want to be able to make the decision myself such that my behaviors between programs remain consistent, and I don't lose any of the new features or functionality that the lastest version offers.

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: KPoling

Date:5/19/2007 4:20:49 PM

I use Vegas for certain things, Acid for others, and Sound Forge for other specific work. What is the purpose for having separate programs if you are gong to make them all alike. I'm sorry but this new version seems very disrespectful to your established user base. Maybe things like the pre-post fade voiceovers, easy crossfades and other behaviors seem unimportant to you, but these were just some among many reasons why I have consistenly supported SF over many years. PLEASE bring back some option of returning these behaviors. They were simple, intuitive, accurate and fast! Just because the interface was older did NOT mean it was obsolete, It really meant the original programmers really had their act together!

Subject:RE: SF9 - Problem - Zoom doesn't go to curso

Reply by: timo75

Date:5/20/2007 9:45:44 AM

I fully agree to KPoling. It's simple like that: before, design followed function, now, function has to follow design. Too bad. Vegas and ACID customers also wouldn't be happy if Sony would change or disable a lot of very intelligent functions - just to look and feel same like SoundForge. This is different software and has to focus on different workflows. What else should different software be good for?