Subject:SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Posted by: craighuddy

Date:4/9/2007 5:26:37 PM

Newb to ASIO in SF here as I skipped 8 and am coming from SF7. Using Creamware audio cards, I am getting an error when opening SF9 from Creamware and then ASIO is not an option for audio drivers. Is there a workaround for this? ASIO works fine in every other app that can access it on my system. Any ideas?

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:4/9/2007 8:16:27 PM

ASIO fine on SB Audigy (ok, yuk, I know) and M-Audio Audiophile . I guess you have latest Creamware ASIO drivers installed ?


geoff

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/9/2007 9:22:45 PM

What kind of error?

Is the error reported from Forge or the Creamware mixer?

What is the exact error message?

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: craighuddy

Date:4/10/2007 10:17:56 AM

Hi Peter,
The error is thrown from Creamware. It is the exact same message as if you tried to open 2 ASIO applications at the same time. IE, I have Sonar open using ASIO and try to fire up Kontakt Standalone set to use ASIO.
It's almost as if forge is accessing the ASIO driverfor a background process, then trying to access it again causing Scope to say that ASIO device is already in use.

Any ideas?

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/10/2007 12:30:18 PM

No idea at all. We are digging up our Creamware hardware and will have a look.

Still, if your suspision is correct, then other drivers would be balking at us as well. We have not seen this.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: craighuddy

Date:4/10/2007 12:44:26 PM

Obviously not being a programmer and even if I was , not seeing the code, my assumptions mean little to nothing :)

All I can tell you is what I am seeing. I will be jumping out of Creamware in a couple of weeks so not a huge deal to me.
hold on, might have had a eureka moment. I am in Vista 32 which I have to run Scope in Compatibility mode. The only way to get apps to see the drivers is to run them in compatibility mode as well.
I am thinking if I run forge in comaptibility mode, it should work fine.

I will let you know when I get back to the DAW.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/10/2007 1:07:10 PM

Well Vista with non Vista drivers is not a good mix.

We wont be looking at this scenario directly as we only test what the hardware vendor supports. Creamware has not released Vista support as of yet. We will review WinXP functionality.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: craighuddy

Date:4/10/2007 1:12:47 PM

I can boot into XP as well to ensure it works OK there too Peter. I am almost 100% positive it is a Creamware issue the more I think about it. Obviously you can't ensure forge works with non supported Os hardware. I have given up on waiting for Creamware.

Have I mentioned I am getting rid of Creamware....

Thanks for letting me waste your time.
sorry bout that..

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:4/10/2007 1:25:04 PM

I have a RME Digi96. SF 9.0 doesn't seem to like its ASIO drivers very much. It will only let me select 44.1K, 16 bit. With every other setting, SF 9 complains about an unsupported sample rate or bit depth. Wavelab 4, Sonar 6 and Vegas 6 all work just fine with other sample rates and bit depths.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/10/2007 4:24:18 PM

Yamaha 01x is NOT working at all in ASIO .... only a big crash!!!!

So, Creamware is not good, RME is not good, Yamaha is not good?????????

MMMMMMMHHHHHHHH

What's going on????

Regards,
Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/10/2007 5:55:13 PM

Are you running Vista or XP?

What driver version are you using with the 01x?

Is the O1X the only part of your mLan network?


Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/11/2007 12:20:46 AM

Well, in my setup I use the 01x and the i88x as well.

I tried also to "disable" connections on i88x and using only 01x ... no luck.

I use WinXP .... but I tried Win Xp x64 as well - NO LUCK (same exact problem...).

WinVista is not an option for me, since Yamaha did not released Vista drivers yet (and I currently don't want to use win Vista ...).

The problem is for sure (or much probably) with the file called SFASIO.DLL.....
(I tried also downloading the demo of vegas and acid and substitute this file, but ... no luck again, SF9 does not start at all).
(all drivers in my pc are up to date!)

I need urgent assistance on it, because this software is completely unusable for me.... If no fixes are possible, I will ask for cash refund.

Thank you....
Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/11/2007 7:11:38 AM

We are looking into the issue with the 01X.

As soon as we reproduce the problem, we will addess it and it will be part of an update. I cannot promise a time when/if the issue will be resolved.

Have you tried using the Wave drivers of the 01X?

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/11/2007 7:26:04 AM

Hi Peter,

yes, with WDM it works .... but I absolutely need to use it in Asio.
(01x in wdm has only 2 ch playback and no record...).

To reproduce the problem is very easy: use it with 01x and you will see that Asio is not working:

If you go in audio options, select Asio, and then you try to press the Asio Panel = crash
If you do not press the asio panel but press OK, ... ok, then, press PLAY = crash

Tried and confirmed in both Win xp ad Win xp x64.
The problem is with the sfasio.dll file ..... and also trying using other version from other sony's package ... does not work (SF9 will not start at all....).

Sorry for my "pressure", but I must be absolutely sure that this problem is going to be fixed for sure..... since I cannot use SF9 at all in this condition.
Thanks for assistance...
Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:4/11/2007 8:08:32 AM

Peter;
How about other audio devices, such as RME cards? I have 3 different Dell's with WinXP, each with a different RME card. One is a Digi96 Pad, one is a Digi96 and one is a HDSP9632. All have the latest RME drivers. On each, with SF9 ASIO works only with 44.1kHz and 16 bit. With all other settings, SF9 complains of unsupported settings. On each machine, other audio applications (mainly Sonar 6), work fine with ASIO at the other audio settings.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/11/2007 9:14:33 AM

ACID, Vegas, Sonar, et al., are project-based, not file-based. They resample media to the project rate, which I presume you set to 48 kHz to match your hardware settings. If you render the project, that resampling still takes place. So the resampled audio you've been hearing while editing is what you'll render.

Sound Forge does not have a "project" rate as Sonar, Vegas, et al. do. It always attempts to play back a file at the file's current sample rate and bit-depth. This is not new behavior.

The reasoning for this is quite simply that it's not the "right" thing to do: By resampling playback to satisfy the requirements of fixed-rate hardware, you'd no longer be listening to an accurate representation of the file. That is, what you see, edit, and perhaps save, would not be equivalent to what you hear.

(For that matter, if you use a non-ASIO driver and the card does not physically support the current rate, Windows may actually be resampling for playback behind your back. So it is always good idea to make sure your hardware supports the formats you intend to work with most "natively").

The convenience of allowing a fixed hardware rate is not lost on us, however. And we will continue to evaluate its need in Sound Forge.

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:4/11/2007 9:37:12 AM

I'm not certain who you were addressing, bu I'll jump in with my RME issue. I should have been a bit clearer; I'm trying to record at sample rates and bit depths other than 44.1kHz and 16, not play back existing files. I should be able to record at any sample rate and bit depth supported by my hardware and SF9, should I not? My issue is, I can only record at 44.1kHz and 16 bit with ASIO on each of 3 different Dells with 3 different RME cards.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/11/2007 9:54:37 AM

In the RME control panel, uncheck "Check Input".

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:4/11/2007 1:18:23 PM

I tried that (it's under "Safe Mode"on the RME control panel, correct?). Unchecking it has no effect on the problem.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/11/2007 1:59:17 PM

>>The problem is with the sfasio.dll file ..... and also trying using other version from other sony's package ... <<

I don't doubt that you are seeing it or that it is occurring in sfasio.dll as this is what implements our ASIO support.

I would suggest that you don't swap sfasio.dll from our other apps. It is not intended to work this way.



When it crashes, does you get any kind of stack dump information window?

>>but I must be absolutely sure that this problem is going to be fixed for sure<<

As I stated:

- I cannot reproduce the problem with the 01X I have here.

- As soon as we can reproduce the problem, we can fix it.

- As soon as we fix it, it will be part of an update to Forge 9.


I can't make any more promises than this. I am looking at the problem.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/11/2007 2:57:05 PM

Dear Peter,

I just tried swapping the sfasio.dll file, and then I restored the correct one ....

When you say "I cannot reproduce the problem with the 01x I have here" means that is it working correctly in your system? (are you using mLan 1.55 drivers or older ones?).

If it can help, I CAN send you the stack dump for sure: tell me if you would like to see it.

Thanks again
Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/11/2007 6:10:06 PM

>>means that is it working correctly in your system?

Yes, it works correctly. No issues with any of our apps.

>>are you using mLan 1.55 drivers or older ones?

Yes, 1.55

How is you mLan configured? Number of inputs/outputs, clock settings, etc, etc.

Please email me directly if need be (Click on my name and send me an email.)

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: guitardood

Date:4/11/2007 8:38:42 PM

You can add the Motu-PCIe-424 to the list of non-working ASIO. As soon as I switch to ASIO, apply changes and exit.......El Crasho!

Go back into Forge 9 and audio is reset to Mapper. Very disappointing indeed.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/11/2007 10:03:00 PM

I have been able to reproduce a crash with the mLan ASIO drivers.

We are working on determinine what is wrong.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/11/2007 10:07:16 PM

guitardood,

Think you will get around to answering my question related to your rig in your previous post on ASIO problems with your MOTU?

I still have no problems with my MOTU 424 hardware, though as I stated in my attempt to help you before, I don't have the number of i/o ports you do.

Please, if you are interested in helping, please review and answer the questions I asked you previously.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: djroguescout

Date:4/11/2007 11:03:42 PM

I just downloaded SF9 and will run it through its paces in the next few days with my RME FF800 to confirm or deny ASIO "friendliness" on that hardware.

Other software I will be running at the same time for sh*ts and giggles:

Samplitude V9Pro
Acid 6 Pro
Cubase SX3
Waves Diamond
Izotope Ozone 3
NI Komplete 3
M-Audio MIDIsport driver
Roland SPD-20 input
Akai EWI4000s input
Yamaha MIDI driver with DGX keyboard over USB input
Frontier Designs Tranzport (no Samp support for Alphatrack yet, so I'm holding off on buying this bad-boy)

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/12/2007 12:01:32 AM

I have just been using an RME Hammerfall DSP (HDSP9632), driver 2.94, with the lastest firmware.

I can record at every supported rate and every port configuration offered. I have tried various sample buffer sizes, and clock modes.

Can you be very specific in exactly how you have your card configured on the Hammerfall DSP Settings applet?

Exactly what - step by step - are you doing in Forge?

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: djroguescout

Date:4/12/2007 12:38:16 AM

I would just like to follow up and say RME has always been outstanding with their driver development (one of the main reasons I exclusively use them).

Their Firewire support, anti-Jitter technologies, AD/DA conversion, and pre-amps have always been top-notch as well.

This is something to consider if you are contemplating between different hardware manufacturers to work with your Sony software (you know...all those "everyday" companies in all the catalogs and on all those websites that seem to have endless compatibility problems). RME gear is the best gear choice I have ever made for PC Native audio.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: djroguescout

Date:4/12/2007 1:25:34 AM

Keep in mind too, it is very advantageous for SCS to take the next step in development (ie competing directly with Adobe Audition and the like). SF has always been the 'Go to" app for those of us that need to get things to our bosses, "yesterday". There will always be "speed bumps" resulting from major revisions in the host software and the myriad third party manufactures. Just be glad the people at SCS are here to work with us to make sure their software is as streamlined as possible. God knows I know what it is like dealing with companies like Digidesign on an independent contractor basis. SCS has always been good to us compared to others. I am much more willing to help this community than others.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: guitardood

Date:4/12/2007 9:39:47 AM

Peter,
I just tried SF9 with only one 2408mk3 plugged in and it worked nicely. I didn't try adding one at a time to see what the crash threshold is. Seems maybe a bug in the number of I/O ports on SF's ASIO implementation (out of bounds array???). There are a total of 96 channels with all of the motu gear plugged in.

It would be pretty great if this is something you guys could resolve.

Thanks,
Chuck

P.S. Here is the crash window contents if it helps:
AppName: forge90.exe AppVer: 9.0.0.245 AppStamp:45c0c713
ModName: forge90.exe ModVer: 9.0.0.245 ModStamp:45c0c713
fDebug: 0 Offset: 0014c2d2

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/12/2007 11:22:22 AM

Great - well kind of.

Now I know what I need to look at - and the purchase order I need to make<g>.

Q: Have you tried Vegas/ACID with the full complement of MOTU devices? (If you haven't and don't have a license, could you download the demo of either and see what happens?)

Thanks,
Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:4/12/2007 12:24:31 PM

Peter;

This is the RME issue. Here are the steps:
1. Open RME Digi Settings applet
2. Uncheck "Safe Mode/Check Input"
3. Close applet.
4. Open SF9
5. Clip on "Record" icon
6. When "Record - Sound 1" window opens, it shows te settings as 44.1kHz, 24 bit, Stereo
7. Click the Record icon
8. THE error message: "An error occurred while opening an audio device - An unsupported media type was requested.


This occurs at every setting combination except 44.1kHz, 16 bit.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: guitardood

Date:4/12/2007 12:27:06 PM

I'll download ACID and let you know.

<edit> Downloaded & Tested Acid 6 Pro, same problem when switching to ASIO. Just a fatal error and poof!

The error shows:
Sony ACID Pro 6.0
Version 6.0 (Build 214)
Exception 0xC0000005 (access violation) WRITE:0x1 IP:0x3527729C
In Module 'sfasio.dll' at Address 0x35260000 + 0x1729C
Thread: GUI ID=0x1A4 Stack=0x12E000-0x130000
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=001b EIP=3527729c EFLGS=00050206
EBX=034b0c70 SS=0023 ESP=0012ef20 EBP=034b0c74
ECX=00000800 DS=0023 ESI=034b0060 FS=003b
EDX=00002000 ES=0023 EDI=00000001 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
3527729C: F3 AB 8B CA 83 E1 03 F3 ........
352772A4: AA 8B 44 24 0C 5F 5E 5B ..D_^[
Stack Dump:
0012EF20: 034B0C68 034B0000 + C68
0012EF24: 034B0060 034B0000 + 60
0012EF28: 034B0C70 034B0000 + C70
0012EF2C: 00000000
0012EF30: 3526472F 35260000 + 472F (sfasio.dll)
0012EF34: 034B0746 034B0000 + 746
0012EF38: 00000001
0012EF3C: 00000800
0012EF40: 00000030
0012EF44: 00000008
0012EF48: 00000030
0012EF4C: 0366B020 034B0000 + 1BB020
0012EF50: 05C26018 05AC0000 + 166018
0012EF54: 310C7E09 30EC0000 + 207E09 (acid60k.dll)
0012EF58: 00000010
0012EF5C: 00000000
> 0012EF74: 310C631B 30EC0000 + 20631B (acid60k.dll)
> 0012EF88: 310C6B90 30EC0000 + 206B90 (acid60k.dll)
> 0012EF90: 7C834CB9 7C800000 + 34CB9 (kernel32.dll)
> 0012EF9C: 310C6E0D 30EC0000 + 206E0D (acid60k.dll)
> 0012EFA8: 006A3AF1 00400000 + 2A3AF1 (acid60.exe)
0012EFAC: 0366B020 034B0000 + 1BB020
> 0012EFB0: 004344BA 00400000 + 344BA (acid60.exe)
0012EFB4: 0012FD00 00030000 + FFD00
0012EFB8: 02721860 026F0000 + 31860
0012EFBC: 00000000
0012EFC0: 0012F2D4 00030000 + FF2D4
> 0012EFD8: 00400000 00400000 + 0 (acid60.exe)
0012EFDC: 0000031F
0012EFE0: 00000000
> 0012EFE4: 00806910 00400000 + 406910 (acid60.exe)
> 0012EFE8: 004DC9A0 00400000 + DC9A0 (acid60.exe)
0012EFEC: 0012F004 00030000 + FF004
0012EFF0: 00000000
0012EFF4: 00000000
0012EFF8: 00000000
> 0012F008: 008192D8 00400000 + 4192D8 (acid60.exe)
- - -
0012FFF0: 00000000
0012FFF4: 00000000
0012FFF8: 0078326A 00400000 + 38326A (acid60.exe)
0012FFFC: 00000000

Hope this helps!

Thanks,
Chuck

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/12/2007 2:38:10 PM

>>2. Uncheck "Safe Mode/Check Input"

I don't see a "SafeMode" option anywhere. I have a Check Input, but this is for MME and should not affect ASIO.

Also, you don't say what your clock source is, are you recording from SPDIF or ADAT? What is the Input clock source? Does it match what is connected to the light pipes? Are you trying to record 48 from a clock source set to 44.1 or something else?

The more details the better to help us figure out what is going on here.

Again, no matter what sample rate that the RME supports, I can switch on the fly and record from it.

You don't happen to have the RME set up as your default Windows Sound device do you?

Peter
PS: Please fill out your system specs in your profile and expose them in your user profile.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/13/2007 12:46:57 AM

Hi Peter,

regarding the mLan (yamaha 01x - i88x) situation, please tell me if you need some info, like the dump stack or something else....

Like everyone, I am strongly interested on a solution of the crash problem, and if I can do something helping you... I will do it.... ok?

Bye
Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/13/2007 6:59:01 AM

Nope, I have all I need. I have reproduced a problem. I am currently discussing it with the Yamaha mLAN ASIO developers.

Will keep you posted.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/13/2007 7:19:52 AM

Thank you....

Regards,

Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/17/2007 3:46:21 PM

BTW.

Was at your web site. I like your music.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/17/2007 4:25:15 PM

Are you referring to me and:

http://www.alphaterra.it ???

If yes, really thanks a lot, I appreciate!

Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: kb420

Date:4/17/2007 5:19:22 PM

I didn't get a chance to read this entire thread, but I also use ASIO drivers with my Motif Es 7 via mlan, and I can confirm that SF9 is not working.

SF8 works fine.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/17/2007 7:26:18 PM

Giorgio,

Yep. I really like what you and your friend of years do.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/17/2007 7:27:31 PM

kb420,

Do you by chance have ACID or Vegas?

If so, do you have the same problems?

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: kb420

Date:4/18/2007 4:27:11 PM

No. I don't own Acid or Vegas. The only Sony products that I have are Sound Forge 8 and 9. Sound Forge 8 works fine with my mlan ASIO drivers.

I do use other software:

Ableton Live 5 +6, Sonar 4,5, + 6, Reason 3, Project 5 Version 1 + 2, Rebirth, Recycle, Sampletank 2, Battery 3.

All of those programs seem to work fine with the mlan ASIO drivers. Sampletank and Battery 3 work fine in stand alone mode as well.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: joegab

Date:4/24/2007 12:26:11 AM

Hello Peter: 2 questions.....

- any news regarding the mLan (and other) problems?

- did you received a personal message that I sent you????

bye bye
Giorgio

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/24/2007 6:43:36 AM

>>- any news regarding the mLan (and other) problems?

Don't know what the other problems are you are refering to, but I have no news for you regarding the mLan problem.

>>- did you received a personal message that I sent you????
Yes.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pmooney

Date:4/26/2007 7:04:41 AM

I alos am experiencing problems with Sound Forge 9 in ASIO mode.

I have an Echo Layla 3G and yesterday I opened SF9 to record a DAT tape from a SPDIF connection. As soon as I hit the record button, which brings up the new sound window with the recording monitor, the program crashed.

I repeated this crash several times. When I changed the driver to the Windows Classic Wave Driver, the crash stopped.

I also have Vegas 7, and had program crashes when in ASIO mode, too. Switching to windows classic wave driver solved that issue as well.

I would like to use my ASIO mode, so if there is any solution you guys can make, I hope to see it in the next update.

Thanks.

Patrick
Windows XP Pro, SP2
Dell Dimension 9150
Pentium D, 3.2 Ghz

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:5/3/2007 2:32:58 PM

I haven't figured out the profile yet, but I''m working on it.

THE Digi96 PAD is not the default Windows Sound device. My clock source is a 2nd generation ADAT, which is also the audio source via lightpipe. It is in 20 bit, 44.1kHZ mode. The RME driver app. shows that clock is locked at 44.1kHZ. SF9 will permit me to record at 44.1kHZ, 16 bit. At 24 bit, it complains that 44.1kHZ, 24 bit is not supported. Sonar 6, Wavelab 4 and Reaper 1.something all permit recording at 44.1kHZ 24 bit.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: bcslaam

Date:5/7/2007 12:09:29 AM

I can confirm also that SF9b ASIO is not working for my Creamware cards.

SF9 is saying that the card doesn't support the bit depth. This of course, is not true. I tried all combinations of bit depth for SF9 AND scope ASIO devices. Didnt try 44.1k tho. I dont use it to record. I only play back 44.1k in CD Architect on my 48k system.

SF8 works - badly, but it works: playing a file whose frequency or bit depth didnt match the cards doesn't just give an error message (normal behavior) but it totally takes out the cards ASIO driver and rebooting is required. I managed to live with this for a few years.

Improvement of ASIO in SF was one of the main reasons I upgraded. Instead it is worse. Back to SF8. Very disappointing!

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:5/7/2007 9:01:51 AM

Unhappily, it isn't clear to me that Sony is particularly worried about this.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/8/2007 6:19:26 AM

We are very concerned about this. We have not been able to reproduce the problem. Until we can reproduce, there is not much we can do about it.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: bcslaam

Date:5/8/2007 9:33:44 AM

Hi Peter
Thanks for the reply.

So are you saying that you have a creamware card running scope 4.5 and SF9b and your asio is working?

If so what asio devices in scope and what settings in SF9b please.

All other programs have no prob with asio including SF8 (except for behaviour mentioned in previous post)

Do you think it could be:

1) the fact that I haven't uninstalled SF8
2) my version of NET framework was an early version of v2
3) order of installation needs to be specific, including when you uninstall SF8 and when you update to DX9c
4)that mvcrt80.dll (or whatever) thats required seemed to be present after install of DX9c or NETv2 (not sure which). I didn't have to do that runtime update. Are there different versions of 80?

If Sony refuses to help us can you PLEASE personally chase up a way of returning JUST the asio side of SF9b to SF8 until we are finally recognised. A kind of un-official workaround.

As it stands I cant use SF9 because WDM/wav in creamware is buggy, inferior quality. In fact I think it's pretty common knowledge that wdm/wav etc is inferior to asio in most cases. And since mastering is what we are doing here, quality is of a premium.

Cheers

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/8/2007 11:01:07 AM

No, I am not saying that. I don't have a Creamware and have not attempted to reproduce your problem.

I am responding toe drmathprog who has problems with the RME hardware/drivers. We have attempted to reproduce his problems with no success. That is, the RME hardware works as expected in ASIO mode.

>>Do you think it could be:

1) no
2) no
3) no
4) no

>>If Sony refuses to help us can you PLEASE personally chase up a way of returning JUST the asio side of SF9b to SF8 until we are finally recognised. A kind of un-official workaround. <<

When has Sony directly or indirectly refused to help you?

I don't work for myself, I work for Sony. I cannot do anything "personally".

We are doing what we can and take all reports here seriously.

Once we configure a system with the Creamware hardware we will make every attempt to resolve the problems you are experiancing.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: drmathprog

Date:5/8/2007 11:22:22 AM

Speaking selfishly, what can we do to track down the RME issue? Based on your prior comments about the location of check boxes on your RME "Settings" application, I suspect that you are running a more recent RME product than I. Is that possible?

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:5/9/2007 3:13:53 PM

"As it stands I cant use SF9 because WDM/wav in creamware is buggy, inferior quality. In fact I think it's pretty common knowledge that wdm/wav etc is inferior to asio in most cases. And since mastering is what we are doing here, quality is of a premium."


Why should WDM or (WAV which is a file format and not related to the driver structure) be (sound) any different to ASIO ? Unless there is something incredibly broken in the creamware driver - in which case ditch the Creamware device if they haven't fixed it in the 7 years or so of WDM.

The only normal benefit of ASIO is potentially lower latency, and that if totally irrelevant for 'mastering' purposes.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: ibliss

Date:5/9/2007 4:50:00 PM

"The only normal benefit of ASIO is potentially lower latency, and that if totally irrelevant for 'mastering' purposes."

Not quite true - lower latency = faster feedback when adjusting plugin settings, eg EQ, so it does have benefits in SF.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/9/2007 8:25:26 PM

The problem with WDM Wave Emulation is that the Windows "Mixer" gets in between the audio we send (or recieve) and what is output to the actual hardware.

Additionally, Windows can do a software resample or other conversions that we (the host) have no control over.

One of the most common WDM side affects is a -6dB reduction in signal. Why does the Windows Mixer do this? So as to permit multiple apps to share the same hardware. Explorer, Forge and Media player can all use the same audio output at the same time. To make a better "user experiance", the Windows mixer pads the audio before actually sending it to the internal mixer and then out to the hardware. Addtionally, if multiple clients open a port, each at different sample rates, a master sample rate is used and any audio the different clients send to the port will be run through a SRS in Windows so that multiple clients can still work.

In WinXP(and 2000) there is no way to take sole ownership.

This is however dependent upon the driver to some degree. If the driver provides a native WDM driver, then the above scenarios will occur.

This is the "kmixer" stuff that was heavily discussed in the past.

If you want to assure that Windows does nothing to the audio that is streamed to/from Forge/Vegas/etc, then ASIO or native Wave MME drivers are the only way to assure this. If the driver is WDM based, then Windows can - and usually does - muck with the audio.

Basically ASIO provides direct access to the hardware. Windows does not get a chance to much around with it.

WDM Kernel Streaming is another way to by pass what Windows can do to your audio stream. Since we support ASIO, there is no reason to support WDM KS.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: shang

Date:5/11/2007 11:51:33 PM

Not that this needs to be longer, but I thought I would chime in. I am using a MOTU PCI-424 and experiencing the same problem. I am running in Vista Ultimate x64, which I now understand (after buying SF9) is not really supported. But SF7 seemed to work fine in XP x64, so I didn't think it would be problem. In fact I've been using SF and CD Architect since v4.0 and up until now it has been unbelievably great, especially compared to all the other buggy stuff I've tried.

I haven't done a lot in SF9 yet, but I can't get it to go out of 44.1K either. Like the other person, I have more than one unit hooked up to the PCI-424. I have a 2408 Mk3 and a 24 I/O, but I usually keep most of the Ins & Outs disabled to save on bandwidth. Let me know if you want any more info about my setup.

One other quick thing: CD Arch gives me a "The device specified is in use." error when I try and use the MOTU card for playback.

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: shang

Date:5/16/2007 6:39:47 PM

Workaround - I switched from ASIO to Windows Classic Wave Driver and it works. I'm sure performance isn't going to be as good, but I'm not planning on doing much multitracking in SF. That's what Sonar is for...

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:5/17/2007 1:48:51 AM

Why would the performance be 'not as good' ?

geoff 42 on 9-9-99 wow

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: shang

Date:5/21/2007 10:34:19 PM

Well, I am assuming some things here.
#1 Classic Wave Driver is probably MME
#2 Everything I've read about Windows audio architecture says use ASIO or WDM if you can. Use MME only as a last resort because it is not as fast.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Buckskin

Date:5/22/2007 1:17:51 AM

For all of those working with vista and having issues with asio driver. You might want to try www.asio4all.com Their drivers seem to be more stable than the actual manufacturers drivers.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: bcslaam

Date:6/7/2007 6:42:47 PM

Hi
There still seems to be no solution to the ASIO problems many of us are having. Please attend to the issue. Especially with Creamware cards.
My paid upgrade is still useless.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Jamil

Date:6/11/2007 5:28:59 PM

Add me to the list of users encountering problems with ASIO for SF 9.0. SF 8.0 worked without a problem using ASIO. Vegas 7.0 works without a problem using ASIO. However, SF 9.0 using the same hardware and drivers locks up when using ASIO.

I am running Windows XP.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Jamil

Date:6/12/2007 2:43:07 AM

Looking at these postings, I have realized that these issues are two months old.

Please advise whether or not you have:

a) identified a problem with Sound Forge 9 and are actively working to correct
b) have not been able to reproduce the problem and the software will remain as is

Since all other software works as desired using ASIO (even software from Sony), it appears to be a problem with Sound Forge 9. I plan to request a refund for this upgrade if this problem persists.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:6/12/2007 6:41:21 AM

Please fill in your system specs, particularly your audio hardware and driver version. The issues are with specific card and driver combinations. Many ASIO devices work fine with Forge 9.0.

J.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Jamil

Date:6/12/2007 3:34:45 PM

I am using an ESI/Audiotrak Maya1010 with the latest drivers available from them (v1.1.5). Again, I would like to stress that Vegas 7.0 works with no problems whatsoever. Sound Forge 8.0 also works with no problems. Only Sound Forge 9 does not work.

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: Jamil

Date:6/12/2007 8:02:50 PM

Good news--

I have discovered that ESI has newer drivers on their Korean website. I downloaded and installed version 1.1.9 of the drivers, and SF 9 now works correctly using ASIO.

http://www.audiotrak.co.kr/kr/customer/down.php

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: spydakb

Date:6/14/2007 9:21:56 AM

You can possibly add Digidesign's latest ASIO driver as well.
I am using a DIGI-002R with SF v9a. I get the unknown device, etc error whenever the 002R is slaved to an external clock via SPDIF. WDM driver works, but as you may already know, it does not provide recording of audio.

Currently SF is the only application I'm having issues the 002R clocked externally

- KB

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/14/2007 12:24:10 PM

What is the sample rate of the media you playing and the clock source of the 002R?

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: spydakb

Date:6/14/2007 2:46:16 PM

The sample rate is 44.1K @ 16 bits. I have the 002R being clocked by a Tascam DM-24 mixer via SPDIF. If set the clock to run internal from the 002R, all is well with ASIO. The clock is normally set to 44.1K @24 bits.

- KB

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: guitardood

Date:8/8/2007 3:19:29 AM

Peter,
Any word on an update regarding the motu problem we went round about back in April??

Thanks,
Chuck

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/8/2007 2:06:46 PM

We made some updates to the ASIO driver support, but nothing specific to the MOTU configuration you have.

Why? Because we don't have that many MOTU devices to test against.

Please let me know if the 9.0b update corrects your problems.

Peter

Subject:RE: SF9 not working in ASIO mode

Reply by: guitardood

Date:8/23/2007 6:10:19 AM

Hey Peter,
Tried 9b and then 9c. Both seem to have addressed the motu problem I was experiencing and are working great. Thanks!


Chuck