Subject:Markers and regions problem in SF9

Posted by: pinebough

Date:4/14/2007 7:57:20 PM

I'm a Soundforge user since version 3. I have been very happy with 8 for the most part and eagery downloaded 9, but there is a problem. I'm used to using the "i" and "O" keys to create edit points for regions. Now when I hit "i", instead of creating the beginning of a selection, I get an arbitrary amount of audio highlighted, as if the SF is deciding the length of the region for me. Hitting the "O" key does absolutely nothing. Clicking the "mark in" and "mark out" buttons does the same thing, by the way, so it is not a keyboard mapping issue. Also if I click and drag to make a selection and hit "R" to create a region, no dialogue box opens like the manual says and like previous versions of SF did. It creates a region alright, but names it "region 1". So now I have to go back and rename my regions too? I tried uninstalling and reinstalling, but to no avail. Is this an "improvement"??

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/16/2007 8:40:23 AM

Mark In/Out are simply no longer toggle switches. Mark In moves the selection start to the current position. If the current position is past the current selection end, the entire length is shifted down. Similar logic for Mark Out. It moves the selection end to the current position. If the current position is before the current selection start, the entire length is shifted back.

On region creation, yes, it is an "improvement" according to many of our users.

If you wish to change the default text, you can do so in Options->Preferences->Labels.

If you wish to edit the names after inserting, just double-click between the region markers in the ruler area.

If you wish to type in a new name every time you insert a marker or region, go to Options->Preferences->General and enable the checkbox near the bottom called "Automatically name regions and markers if not playing".

If you wish to use text editing to adjust start/end, I'd suggest using the Regions List window, but you can also right click on the region marker and select "Edit" to use the old dialog.

J.

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: pinebough

Date:4/16/2007 4:16:38 PM

So how are regions defined now? I use SF to edit spoken word readings and mark a start point, play the audio, then mark an "out" point when I need to make an edit. I guess I just don't understand the new way to define regions. The manual is unclear as to the "new method" of creating regions. I also noticed if I go to "insert region" form the special menu, the dialogue box comes up to name the region. If I hit the "R" key, it does not. It gives it the generic name.

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: pinebough

Date:4/20/2007 6:34:10 PM

Well, I thought I was going to be able to work with the new version, but it started flipping out. Now when I try to adjust the end of a region by shift clicking ( the tried & true method since version3) it changes the entire selection to a couple seconds before where I clicked, even if the region is several minutes long. No rhyme or reason. Maybe a couple os seconds maybe more.I don't know what you folks think you're improving here. I am only disgusted because I paid for the upgrade and it was a complete waste of money. I uninstalled it and am looking for another editing program. In the meantime I'll use SF8 which handled regions and markers flawlessly.

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/21/2007 6:18:48 AM

In another thread I criticized this, too.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=522380&Replies=3

The reason behind is to bring the UIs of vegas, ACID, and SF together in technical behaviour, what I found very arrogant against us old SF users. Only because Vegas behaves like that, this is no reason to change the previous, very handy behaviour of SF (that better might have been ported to Vegas, btw.)

My point of view is, that every software, Vegas, ACID, SF, is dedicated to special purposes. So the UI has to follow those purposes. What they do in this time, they let the functionality follow the UI - not very useful. SoundForge is mainly a sample editor, that means you edit *samples* and need very accurate editing capabilities. Vegas is a multitrack tool, you need track editing tools. The difference is obvious. Handling differences must be accepted.
If Sony does not realise this, they work in my eyes unprofessional. Sad to say this.

So, actually, to go back to topic, there is no workaround to get the old selecting-functionality back. Whatever they say, it is always a restriction, esp. when working in high zoom ratios and seeking for the right selection start/end, where you don't see the existing selection.

But a small light at the end of the trunnel, ForumAdmin putted it to the feature request list, so the new shift-click behavoiur might be optional in the next update.

I really hope that, as I really cannot understand how they can treat their loyal customers like that and push SF in such a frightening direction. I'm also very frustrated about this among other changements, that I really consider to sell my PC (that I have only for SF) and buy another editor software for mac, if Sony does not restore many of the old features.

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: pinebough

Date:4/21/2007 6:42:12 PM

I'm glad to hear I am not the only one who is finding this frustrating! If it had been a free upgrade I wouldn't really sweat it but I paid for it and I despise the fact that software is one of those things that you are really stuck with if it doesn't do what you bought it for. I have gone back to ver 8 and have been looking for a replacement program for editing for futher on up the road. I hear some good things about Wavelab so I'm checking out thier forums to see what their users complain about ;) I also used to use Protools for a while but after my Digi001 died and I couldn't get support for it, I bought a Mackie Onyx 400F and went back to SF. I always thought it was a better editor than Protools, probably for the same reasons you mentioned regarding Vegas. It just blows my mind how they can "improve" a supposed sample editor by effectively removing its edit functionality. Whatever. If the Acid and Vegas folks are digging the new version of SF good for them. I'm done and moving on. Once burnt, twice shy.

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/23/2007 10:17:51 AM

If you are having issues with Mark In/Out while playing back, that is a known issue in build 298 and earlier that will be fixed. If not playing back, it should behave as I described in my previous post.

Again, if you wish to immediately rename markers or regions every time you insert them, go to Options->Preferences->General and enable the checkbox near the bottom called "Automatically name regions and markers if not playing". Then, when you hit 'R', a text box appears on the markers ruler that you can type into and just hit Tab or Enter to commit.

Shift+click creates a selection from the cursor position to the clicked position. As timo75 alluded to, we are considering restoring the old "pick-the-furthest-edge" behavior as an option. FWIW, Home and End will move the cursor to the start and end of a selection, respectively.

J.

Subject:RE: Markers and regions problem in SF9

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/23/2007 4:47:46 PM

J.,

it really makes me hope what you said conerning the shift-click thingy. Today, I had to cut some guitar samples for a new sampling cd. All I can say, this is not fun with SF9. I try to describe, why:

I have a big file with lots of takes, all long played notes, that have to be sort and cut out carefully. First I select a whole take, roughly. Then press 'Home' and zoom in quickly to the begin of the selection. Then, I scroll left until I see the right spot for the sample's start. Very often, this sweet spot is farer away from the selection, so the selection has been scrolled out of the screen when I reaching it. I want now the selection beeing extended to this point by shift-clicking in this sweet spot... argh, destroyed selection, because the cursor was at the begin of my initial selection, not at the end...
To first move the cursor to the end of the selection is no help at all, because then I'm completly at a different position and loose my sweet spot.
To extend the selection by dragging the left side of it is no solution, too, as I would have to scroll back, loosing my sweet spot and a lot of time...

Hope you understand the issue.

I must repeat it once again: SF is a sample editor, not a multitrack editor and therefor needs it's own UI.

Thanks for listening that much,

Timo