Subject:SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Posted by: Ben 

Date:4/10/2007 9:00:21 AM

SF 9 seems to always seek when moving the cursor while playing. SF 8 and previous versions only did this when looping was enabled.

I'm finding this really, really annoying - it's destroying my workflow - and I can't see a way to revert back to the previous behaviour. Does anyone know how? J?

Thanks

Ben

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/10/2007 9:32:47 AM

It was an intentional change due to so many users regularly asking the converse (e.g. "why isn't it seeking?").

Would a new pref to disable playback seeking (independent of loop mode) be sufficient, or do you regularly to toggle between seek and no-seek?

J.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:4/11/2007 3:20:17 AM

Not to sound over-dramatic, without a toggle to "seek on cursor move" this would be the end of the line for me I'm afraid. I would be sticking with SF8. I like being able to move around while playing in the way Ben described.

I've been with 'Forge since version 3 and won't be downloading unless I know the app I've got so used to will (or at least can) work in the same way as it taught me to.

I actually felt this way about the change in version 7 where tab would suddenly play the Left or Right channel rather than just moving the cursor - maybe that could still be made switchable too.

J.. I hope you can appreciate the need for consistency and whilst I understand you are responding to demand - which in itself is great news - think of those of us who liked that aspect of your product the way it was.

I do hope you can add an option so I can move forward with version 9. The other new features look exciting.

Best regards,

Andrew

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/11/2007 5:27:51 AM

I fully agree to drew and Ben.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/11/2007 7:00:36 AM

Perhaps you could both offer an answer to my question then...

Would a new pref to disable playback seeking (independent of loop mode) be sufficient, or do you regularly want to toggle between seek and no-seek?

J.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: timo75

Date:4/11/2007 7:12:49 AM

though I'm not one of the both :-)

I'd suggest to place the seek-option in the context menu when right clicking into the data window, just below the "Scroll Playback" item.

Howsoever, a setting in preferences to permanently turn it on/off would be better than nothing imo.

Thanks and sorry for chime in...

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Ben 

Date:4/11/2007 8:17:53 AM

>> Would a new pref to disable playback seeking (independent of loop mode) be sufficient, or do you regularly want to toggle between seek and no-seek? <<

The former would be fine with me, as I don't need to toggle between seek and no-seek. Essentially I'd like to see SF 7 behaviour whereby normally there was no seek during playback, but seek does occur with loop mode on.

While we're at it then J, can we also sort out the issue that Drew alluded to regarding tabbing or selecting the channels during playback? Prior to SF 7, this operation during playback didn't affect what you hear. Of course selecting one channel and the hitting play should play just that channel, but I don't want to suddenly hear the channel I'm selected while I play. Does that make sense? Ideally, this could be tied to the option above, so essentially where you play the cursor during playback doesn't affect what you hear.

Thanks

Ben

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:4/11/2007 8:59:41 AM

Sorry to not have answered your question properly last time J.. and thanks for showing interest + seeing the concern.

Making this a preference setting would be better than nothing (and I'm so surprised that such a setting wasn't automatically included since this does reflect quite a sudden change of editing behaviour). But of course such a setting would then set in stone functionality that you have to choose to embrace or reject.

If you instead added a way to toggle directly from the main window you would be adding useful editing flexibility. You could still set it once and leave it that way if you preferred, but then easily explore the benefits of being able to switch quickly - and maybe find some reasons to use that "other setting".

The critical point is to ensure the setting would be maintained from one execution to another - as with the Loop Playback setting!

I liked Timo's idea - but with or without that there should really be an entry in the Options menu close to 'scrolling' I would say.

I would say the left/right tabbing change from version 7 is consistent with this new instant seeking paradigm, whereas the old way (which moved the cursor without soloing the channel) seemed to sit well with the old cursor behaviour of not seeking. So I'm with you there Ben re putting them together. I would be interested to see if others share that view.

Regards,

A.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drbam

Date:4/11/2007 9:10:47 AM

"Essentially I'd like to see SF 7 behaviour whereby normally there was no seek during playback, but seek does occur with loop mode on."

I agree. This is what I'm used to and much of my workflow is built around it. I'm not clear on why it was changed for SF9 – what feature enhancement was acheived by changing this?

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/11/2007 10:50:15 AM

We'll figure something out for the next update. At a minimum, we'll include an option to restore the previous behavior.

If you'd like to elaborate on the specific workflow that makes this behavior so essential to you, it would be helpful.

I did discover a sneaky keyboard workaround that may be mildly helpful:

While playing, hit Ctrl+Left Arrow or Ctrl+Right Arrow to navigate to the previous/next marker (or file start/end if no markers). At that point, you'll be able to use arrows and Shift+arrow, Go To (Ctrl+G for dialog, F5 for edit-in-place), drop marker (M), and a few other things without disrupting playback. But YMMV.

J.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:4/11/2007 10:55:57 AM

Thanks for the tip!

I'm sure you can see the benefit of having both methods available - familiarity and flexibility. That's what I would hope for in version 9.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Phil Sayer

Date:4/17/2007 3:04:47 AM

I'm not sure exactly what is meant by "seeks on cursor move" so forgive me if I'm in the wrong thread!

I'm hoping that you mean the new behaviour, whereby if I move the cursor while the file is playing, the playback re-starts at the new cursor location - I can't think what else you mean!

And yes, I'd like to be able to switch back to the "old" way, please.

I've paid $99 for an upgrade I can't use, and I'm on the verge of asking for a refund unless this can be changed back to the way it was in SF8.0.

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure the enhancements mean it's a decent value upgrade, but after many hours of trying, I can't make this work for me and I'm back to using 8.0 for all my editing work...

If it helps, I use SF almost exclusively for editing speech (my own voice.). I use markers only as a visual guide to where I've "fluffed," in other words, I drop a marker at the record stage when I make a mistake, as a helper in the edit. (I rarely use Regions for the work I do.)

I also edit out some breath noises, and they are visually obvious on the screen - so while I'm listening to the "wanted" material on playback, I can highlight the breath noise, and hit Delete whenever I choose. While I'm, say, waiting for the cursor to catch up to where I'm at with the breath noise, I want to hear the audio... I can no longer do this due to the SF9.0 change.

So, yes, please change this back as a matter of urgency, or make it an option! If it had been made clear in the publicity that this had changed, I wouldn't have upgraded - it really is that important to me.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: cyberbeat

Date:4/17/2007 10:30:45 AM

Yes! I feel the same way and I've also had to switch back to using SF 8 because of it. Please change the cursor behavior back to the way it was in earlier versions. This is not acceptable! I can't stand the way it is now. While you're at it, put back the ctrl+F crossfade dialog. This is another reason I had to go back to 8.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: vksf01

Date:4/23/2007 3:29:13 PM

ditto,

i've been going back to sf8 because of all the new cursor behaviours in sf9....at least give us an option to go back to the old sf8 cursor behaviours....

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:8/3/2007 6:10:55 AM

Well it still has not happened. So I still have not moved to SF9.

Maybe Sony are actually not concerned about keeping long-standing customers satisfied by allowing them to use the new products in the same way they did the old ones (for many years). Or maybe it's a question of "this is the new paradigm and that's that".

Either way it obviously would not have taken this long to get an update allowing the old behaviour had it been considered an issue by Sony.

Very disappointing.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:8/3/2007 3:26:40 PM

Have faith.... ;)

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:8/3/2007 4:32:10 PM

You don't need to 'go back' to SF8 - you can have both versions installed concurrently. However I suspect that if you wait a few days your disppointment may be relieved - must be about time for an update release.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: jamez_p

Date:8/6/2007 1:24:46 AM

We don't wan't sneaky keyboard workarounds. We don't want functionality removed, ever. How about you sony guys attending a software development refresher course and then a customer services course.

When is the next update to address all these VERY frustrating issues???

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: timo75

Date:8/6/2007 1:42:40 AM

Well, the first time a product cannot convince me even after a couple of months. Me too, I'm still back on SF8 and will stay there as long as my computer works and computers are able to run WinXP, if all those mentioned issues in countless threads aren't resolved in a gentle way.

The issues themselves are frustrating enogh, the long waiting time is just a joke. But let's hope they will adress really a lot. Let us be surprised...

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:8/7/2007 11:29:46 AM

I have to say, this has been the 1st Sound Forge release where I have been less than thrilled. I feel the multi-channel features could have been so much more, especially since this release took the longest of any of the previous versions. Then to find missing items or changed behavior without a preference setting from the previous versions. This release overall has to be the biggest Sound Forge disappointment for me thus far.

I will say this on the positive side. This release does feel solid, but I'll be sticking with SF8, since that also feels solid to me and it didn't under go the rob from Peter to pay Paul feature upgrade process that this version did.

Overall, I wanted to get more into the multi-channel work flow of Sound Forge 9, but I was expecting that to be more of a novelty feature for me to grow into, while being able to continue to use Sound Forge in the usual fashion that I did in the past for mono and stereo audio.

This update is taking awhile......so hopefully that means something good is coming. Right now that just seems like wishful thinking, since this 9.0 release also took the longest and look what we got in return for the long wait.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:8/8/2007 3:21:14 PM

Well now it's public - you'll notice for those who have a gripe about seeking cursor on playback...

Either go to options, and disable "Seek cursor on playback" (Item no7 ) or simply push the F key.

Next?...

lol

Ken

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:8/9/2007 7:09:57 AM

Thanks for the heads up Ken!

Now I just need to work out how I can trial it again!

I downloaded and it instantly told me it had expired.

Obviously it's an updated version so it shouldn't suggest I have already had my chance to try it?

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:8/9/2007 5:48:36 PM

You make it sound like you have already had a version installed and had that trial expire - afterall - Soundforge 9 is still v9 whatever build it is. (although the latter builds do rock more!!...)

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:8/12/2007 10:22:06 AM

You are quite correct!

I trialled it for a matter of minutes and promptly gave up when I realised that the new "seek on cursor move" behaviour was not optional.

Having used Sound Forge every working day since the last century this was a huge deal for me (and I know I'm not alone!).

Now though, I am unable to trial the version which purports to have addressed this issue. So I suppose I now have to wait until version 10 is released in order to be sure I won't be buying a product I am unhappy with.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Kennymusicman

Date:8/12/2007 11:33:03 AM

ok - so if the main problem was seeking cursor - then why not go for the full version? - there is lots within v9 that make it worth upgrading. Naturally, depending on what you do will vary how much milage on the new features you gain. But I honestly can't say I have ever regretted the upgrade - I really like it.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:8/12/2007 1:29:40 PM

Do you not actually believe us other users who say the behaviour is fixed ? You could try a trial version on another computer....

g.

Subject:RE: SF 9 seeks on cursor move

Reply by: drew_

Date:8/17/2007 7:11:52 PM

Geoff,

I am so surprised by the tone of your response, having seen you as someone with a reasonable, professional approach in the past.

By "us other users", do you mean the one person who mentioned it in this thread?

Of course I never suggested Kenny was lying about this in any post, so why should you choose to jump in and speculate that I may be? I actually thanked the guy for telling me about this, for heaven's sake!!

By "fixed" do you mean "made optional"?

As far as I was aware this was not something the developers considered "broken" - it was an intentional change and an option to revert was only considered after users (such as myself) complained.

Finally - just to clarify - by "another computer" do you mean one other than the computer I wish to use it on?

You surely realise that the only way to know if software is fully compatible with your DAW machine and all its hardware is.. to run it on that very machine!


Geoff, why do you not consider it perfectly fair for me to want a chance to trial the version of the software I would be buying before spending $300 on it? I was unsatisfied with the previous release, so it is absolutely essential to me this time - and both you and the developers should understand that.

I want to know whether "not seeking" means the unselected channel will still mute as soon as I hit TAB, or if it will mean we return to the previous paradigm where it only changes when you next hit play. Also now loop bar & selection work separately, I wish to see how "not seeking" will tie in with selections while looping is on.. etc etc.

Unlike Kenny, I *have* regretted upgrading in the past. When I bought version 8 I jumped in too early, regretted it and had to wait for a version which would work on my system.

This time, as with version 8, I could have benefitted from a discount had I been happy from the start but I just wouldn't have used it without this change and by then the upgrade offer was over. As I stated above it would have been the end of the line for me had seek not been made optional and of course nobody was making any promises.

Now I have to pay double for version 9 as a result, so I am understandably keen to be sure it feels right.

I look forward to seeing more considerate and considered contributions from you in future.

Regards,

drew