Subject:SF 9 not there yet for me

Posted by: asylumsound

Date:4/9/2007 1:30:00 PM

After all this, still no Broadcast Wave File support (with time stamping) and no OMF or AAF import/export.

These two would open so many doors for so many of us.

Boo SONY.

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: ForumAdmin

Date:4/9/2007 2:27:26 PM

In 8.0d and later, if you open an existing BWF, the bext chunk will be kept when you save the file. The contents of the chunk are just not exposed in the Forge interface.

By requesting exposition of both the BWF chunk and AAF/OMF, I get the feeling you are expecting NLE-like behavior, which Vegas is already quite proficient at ;-).

But I digress, can you elaborate on how you would expect these to work in a file-centric editor such as Forge?

J.

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: asylumsound

Date:4/9/2007 7:16:27 PM

There are two ways I could use BWF and one way for OMF/AAF. Both would get me more work.

1. If I were to do a location recording, multichannel or just stereo, and I wanted to time stamp the recordings with timecode to later marry with video/film footage with the same time code, I could not do it as SF 9 does not make original BWF files or allow time code in/out.

2. as for OMF and AAF. I have clients that ask me to tweak audio from their shows. (true audio post production) They work in either Final Cut or Avid. They can easily output a quicktime video and an OMF file with all the audio clips on different channels (VO, fx, music). I would love to import the quicktime (can do in SF 9!) and import the OMF file that has all their audio clips, then tweak the audio clips with all the wonderful SF tools... compression, EQ, noise reduction!, etc. I'd then create a final stereo file or AC-3 to send back to them to import into their NLE timeline, without losing sync. (keep in mind these shows vary from 30 seconds to 30 minutes) But since I can't import an OMF I can't work with these clients.

And now that SF 9 is multi-channel, this would be a great opportunity to offer this feature!

Now if you say, have them make long AIFF or WAV files to import, I say no. Why should I have my clients jump through extra hoops when other audio engineers using other audio software don't?

Now if you say that this can all be done in Vegas, I say no again. Why should I be forced to buy a video editing software to work on audio files?

My 2 cents.

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:4/9/2007 8:15:18 PM

"Why should I be forced to buy a video editing software to work on audio files? "

You are not forced to do this. But Vegas works on a completely different prinicple to SF, and is far better at some things (like what you do ?) than SF.

As well as the video functionality , Vegas also remains a preeminent multitrack audio 'editor'.

geoff

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: asylumsound

Date:4/9/2007 8:57:13 PM

okay then, so does Vegas support Broadcast Wave Files, OMF or AAF?

(EDITED HERE) -- Please note that I own, use and love Sound Forge 8.0, Acid 6.0 and CD Architect. I am not trying to knock them... I just wish for a few features that would have, honestly, brought me more work/income.

I just investigated the Vegas features page, and yes it does support BWF files. Cool. And it does mention AAF support -- even cooler! But no OMF import/export...

I've always thought (due to marketing) that Vegas was a great video editor with stronger audio features than most others, I did not honestly realize it was that powerful in audio.

That said, I still don't like the idea of buying such a powerful video editing software if I really won't use 75% of its features.

How difficult would it be to add timecode, BWF, and OMF support to either Sound Forge or Acid to make them true contenders in the audio post world? I think they are naturals for it!

All that being said, I thank you for pointing me towards Vegas, I will investigate it further...
(END EDIT)

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: tomaras

Date:4/9/2007 9:50:47 PM

While Vegas may allow you to open a BWF file and place it on a timeline at it's proper SMPTE position, it will not allow you to save or render it as a BWF file with original timecode. Not much use for cleaning up audio tracks and then saving them out for delivery to the video house with the original timecode intact in BWF format.

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: tomaras

Date:4/9/2007 10:12:18 PM

>>>But I digress, can you elaborate on how you would expect these to work in a file-centric editor such as Forge?<<<

As a location mixer for video and film I was hoping I might be able to use this to review and possibly process my sound files before delivering them to the video editors or film transfer house. I may note in the field that there was a loud noise or a jet fly over at a certain timecode number and want to go back to that position in SF to review or eq or otherwise fix something and then save the resultant file for delivery. Since Sony obviously has the code in Vegas to allow me to view proper SMPTE numbers why was it not included in SF? BWF with SMPTE timecode stamping is the ONLY standard for EVERY location sound for picture non-linear stand alone recorder made.....surely SF should fully support them.

I'm gonna be at NAB next week and I'm sure going to have a lot of questions. Guess I'll have to get to the Sony booth bright and early!

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: asylumsound

Date:4/10/2007 7:35:46 PM

You go tomaras!

You seem to be fighting the same issues as me... I can't make it to NAB so give 'em an earfull for me too!

thanks
asylum sound

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: tomaras

Date:4/10/2007 8:49:47 PM

I'm just amazed that Sony does not seem to understand the process of location sound aquisition and delivery as it relates to the video and film world. They have added video functions to SF but they don't want to make it a useful tool for working location sound professionals. I wish they would take a look at the two Mac applications that just about completely nail down what we need.

http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/
http://www.gallery.co.uk/metacorder/intro.html

Now I'm not expecting SF or Vegas to become dedicated location recording software in the same way as the two products linked to, but it would be nice for Sony to take a look at what is being done in this regard and add a little functionality for BWF and SMPTE timcode. How about starting with the ability to take an LTC track and use it to create a SMPTE timeline and then give us the ability to render or save the resultant recordings as timecode stamped BWF files? That simple functionality alone would make SF or Vegas useful for live recording of performances, interviews or drama that are shot on film or video.

I was really excited about SF9's release and had high hopes that there would be functionality added in these areas. I'm a bit dissapointed now. I'm sure I will figure out and appreciate SF9's new features and changes from SF8. I'm certainly not complaining about the $99 upgrade price, but I'm really going to have to start looking at buying a Mac to address field recording needs that are not being met by my 4 channel Sound Devices recorder or ANY Windows software at this point. Sony, I think there is a market for these features and NOBODY on the Windows side of the software world is addressing it.

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: kbruff

Date:4/11/2007 4:56:28 AM

have you thoroughly investigated wavelab, I mean above and beyond the general review of features -- that is posing this question to PG (the author of wavelab, who frequents the forums on a daily basis).

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:4/11/2007 8:45:58 AM

Wavelab 6.0 easily handles BWF and OMF....not sure about AAF...

VP

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: tomaras

Date:4/12/2007 2:02:11 AM

The website for Wavelab says very little about BWF and absolutely NOTHING about SMPTE TC. It appears Nuendo 3 for BIG BUCKS will do most of what I want....but it is very expensive and way overkill for simple BWF support with timecode.

Subject:RE: SF 9 not there yet for me

Reply by: asylumsound

Date:4/28/2007 4:00:59 PM

So Tomaras, did you get the chance to speak w/Sony at NAB?