Subject:AcidPro with CME keyboards

Posted by: alltheseworlds

Date:3/16/2007 4:54:43 PM

Does anyone use AcidPro with any of the CME controller keyboard range ? I'm thinking of getting the UF7 and am wondering whether the sliders and transport controls integrate well with Acid ?

Any comments much appreciated :-)

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: alltheseworlds

Date:3/18/2007 10:41:47 PM

Ah well, I've ordered one anyway. Will report.

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: Jay R

Date:3/20/2007 11:25:21 AM

Yes, I've got one. Excellent controller.

There's a bug in AP6(d) that doesn't allow you to edit controller events in the list editor. It makes the changes, but they only play back correctly inside the edit window - the changes aren't reflected in the project itself. So you have to get your controller moves right the first time, or re-record them - they're not editable. That's not unique to CME boards of course, but with my CME UF-5, I use controllers a lot more than I used to.

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/20/2007 11:53:20 AM

>>There's a bug in AP6(d) that doesn't allow you to edit controller events in the list editor. .....

This is not a bug.

The work flow I explained to you previously.

The main time line uses Envelopes for all CC handling.

If you edit the CC's in the list editor, you must then import them into the main time line.

Or, don't edit them in the List editor, edit them using the envelopes on the time line.

I agree there is a disconnect, but this is how it works so as to deal with multiple events on a single track that reference the same MIDI "loop".

We are looking at how to make this more obvious or to force a "link" that automatically does the update on the time line.

Peter

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: Jay R

Date:3/21/2007 7:38:08 AM

SonyPCH, while I appreciate your help, this remains a workaround. There is no good reason to have a midi event editor that makes controller changes in its internal view but does not affect the project. This is lost functionality from version 5, where a user could make those changes and hear them in the project.

I work for a software company, and am an ASQ Certified Software Quality Engineer. I understand, and know well, the pressure to make bugs look like we-meant-to-do-that-and-it-adds-value. You guys can have all the discussions you want in-house about about what you'll call it when talking to each other, but this kind of spin directed at customers is more offputting than helpful.

I apologize for using the "b" word, as it's clearly a sensitive issue. But I stand by its use as being wholly accurate, especially from a customer's perspective.

Best,

Jay

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/21/2007 8:37:30 AM

I don't have a problem with the "b" word. I deal with bugs daily.

There are many other issues related to the clip editor vs the time line that need to be addressed. What you have pointed out is just one.

You cannot compare the functionality from 5 to 6. They have competely different approaches to MIDI. We did mean to do it the way it is done. I completely agree that it is not the best solution.

We had far more complaints about how previous versions of ACID handled MIDI with the clip editors. ACID 6 set out to change the approach ACID takes with MIDI. A significant significant change like this forces legacy behavior to be lost.

The main timeline envelopes are the designed means to edit MIDI cc data. The Clip editors are legacy.

I knew full well that the disconnect would be a problem. The solution we provided is far from ideal. However, it does permit the same clip to be used in different places in different contexts with out edits of CC data in the clip editors to affect the main time line in a bad way.

I understand that your desired workflow is not available. In the end, it is a two step process vs the single step that you desire.

We will be addressing this in a future version of ACID.

Peter

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: Jay R

Date:3/21/2007 12:22:57 PM

Thanks for the insight into your development process. It helps.

We're probably walking into esoteric-land by continuing to talk about what's a bug and what isn't, but I'm having a bout of last-word-itis today. Sorry. ANYHOW...

...allowing a user to make edits (spending significant time, not even counting the troubleshooting when it didn't work) of values in the list view that Sony has no intention of reflecting in the project playback is either a bug or really bad business. Especially when playback inside the list view plays the new values as entered. Users would be far better served by suppressing updates of codes that are going to be ignored, and perhaps offering warning messages, than by having to wait for an exchange with the helpdesk to find out why one part of the application is ignoring work done in another part of the application. ESPECIALLY given that the help desk guy (not you - thanks for jumping in, seriously) had no clue what was going on.

End of rant. Thanks for your support of this board, Sony PCH. You're why I keep coming back.

Best,

Jay

Subject:RE: AcidPro with CME keyboards

Reply by: pwppch

Date:3/21/2007 4:13:27 PM

Not to have the last word...but...

Semantics aside, I agree with what you are saying.

It will be addressed.

Peter