Lighting question

navydoc wrote on 3/13/2007, 4:57 PM
I'm in the process of shooting some video in my kitchen for my friends and family but I'd like to see if there's a way I might improve the lighting...short of shooting in someone elses kitchen. Actually, I don't think the lighting is too bad all things considered but wonder if there isn't a way I might improve things a bit.

Here's the situation: My kitchen has limited space with no center island. The ceiling is a drop ceiling and the lighting is floresent and is designed to give off a 'warm' light. The only other light source is a window above the sink.

There is little room for light stands and of course, with the drop ceiling, any light from a stand would cast shadows directly on the walls behind rather than down.

The camera I'm shooting with is the Sony HVR-A1. Here's a very short clip to show you the lighting I'm working with, flouresent lights and the kitchen window, and the results I'm getting.

Test clip

Thoughts and comments appreciated. Do you feel the current lighting is sufficient? How could I go about improving the lighting?

Thanks in advance...and please don't laugh too hard at the guy in the video.

Doc

Comments

mjroddy wrote on 3/13/2007, 5:11 PM
I'm not sure if you're panning around the kitchen or what your end results will be, but from what I've seen, I might suggest a light (500watt or better) right next to the camera bounced off the ceiling. Or next to the camera pointing away from your subject, but bounced off a piece of foam core to soften it up.
Good luck.
Spot|DSE wrote on 3/13/2007, 5:13 PM
You could stand to hit him with a diffused and flagged light, you can hang the light from, a drop ceiling fairly easily; even an Omni or something small like that would work well. You'll need to flag it so you don't hit the cabinet in the foreground.
Can you pop more light through the kitchen window and bounce it?
blink3times wrote on 3/13/2007, 5:42 PM
Day light fluorescent bulbs.

As I mentioned in another post, fluorescent lighting has change TREMENDOUSLY over the recent past. You are no longer restricted to warm or cool white. You can get tubes in lighting temps of 1000k all the way up to 6000k (daylight rating). I have 6000's in my basement and when i shoot down there... it's almost like being outside. I no longer get that kind of yellow tinge to the shots... the colors are pure and bright. Whereas upstairs I have normal lighting and I am forever having to do color corrections on the timeline for removing that yellowish tungsten type tinge.
navydoc wrote on 3/13/2007, 6:21 PM
Thanks for the quick replies and suggestions. My drop ceiling is comprised of translucent plastic panels that can be removed within their aluminum frames. It shouldn't be too difficult to attach a light via clamp to a panel frame.

I'll check into getting tubes at a daylight temperature as well.

Doc
tneighbors wrote on 3/13/2007, 6:50 PM
These sound like good suggestions. I personally don't think a 500W will be enough to compete with the daylight when bounced off a white board...not to mention, you will have to put a full CTB in front of it to bring it to a close-to-daylight color temp and that will stop it down even more. Definitely replace the florescent bulbs with daylight bulbs. And then a very soft key is needed from the right side of camera (like everyone else seems to be saying). However you want to do that is up to you (kino, 1K off of a whiteboard, chinese lantern, softbox, whatever.)
Some other things to think about:
you can also reduce the other light by hanging drapes, dimming the light from above and then opening your iris. If you do this, then a 500W or 1K shot into the white card or upper wall behind and to the right of the camera might serve you better. If you block all of the daylight out, you can then white balance to Tungsten and forget about color gels and daylight flourescents.
Also, maybe it will be worth it for you to bring in an island/table or something and use the space a little differently so the subject is facing the camera a little more....its easier to light him that way too.
anyway, good luck....and it looks delicious. Excuse me, I'm gonna go eat a steak now. ; )
rmack350 wrote on 3/13/2007, 7:09 PM
You can either relamp the room with daylight tubes or try to change the window light. You've got two windows giving you blue (there's the wall in the foreground and the on-screen kitchen window). It all depends on what you want to spend but the choices are relamp the flos or gel the windows to match the flos you've got. If the main resource is a hardware store then relamping may be more possible than gelling.

On to the next problem. The main source in the kitchen is those overhead flos, which give you a hotspot on your head because they're two close. If you know your marks (the spots you'll stand still in, you might try reducing the light in just those places to cool off your head. Again with the hardware store theme, you could buy some window screen and slip a couple of layers into the overhead flo just at those spots. It probably won't reduce the overall light much but it'll tone it down where it counts.

Since you're out spending money, maybe you can get another shop light and a couple more daylight flo tubes and use them as a more sidey or frontal fill from camera right, where the windows are. You could bounce it or use it direct if you like. And then of course you have to flag it off the foreground cabinets.

You've also got a lamp in the range hood that's probablly tungsten and looks warmer than the ambient light.getting that to be correct may be a problem. You could crosshatch it with a blue sharpie until it's close.

Honestly considering this is for friends, and the window isn't really dominant in the frame, I might just buy some screen and try to knock things down where needed and then try to increase the front fill. Forget about relamping for now. Is there a time of day when more light streams in the camera right window? No law says you can't shoot a video about dinner first thing in the morning...

Rob Mack
Serena wrote on 3/13/2007, 9:15 PM
In that clip you have some effective lighting on head (but highlights burnt out -- scrim down or balance with other lighting) and shoulders but need at least a soft fill to bring up the important part. I'd add an eye light because I'd not have the fill on camera (I'd like to put it to right, but that cupboard is a problem). Could you put a cutting board over the sink and move the food there and put a filter on the window to balance colour and intensity. Your warm flouros are probably 3500K so if you don't want to buy a sheet of lighting gel you could have a look at wrapping cellophane -- there used to be an orange that was very close to the balancing daylight to 3400 (I used once that to 'gel' a very large picture window and windowed passage for a very low budget film). Be nice to scrim down the range hood, which is a bit out of balance.
The "set" isn't very easy to shoot in, that I can see. Every shot has to be side or back. Frontal shots look impossible unless you can do things in front of the window and shoot through that (now you have to bring up the interior lights up to daylight). I suppose it's not possible to construct a preparation bench that can be moved as needed? A board that can be dressed suitably (table cloth, whatever) and it would make both lighting and photography a lot easier (do the establishing and wide shots without the bench prop). A lot depends on how you've planned the whole scene and my suggestions may be unworkable for the rest of the sequence.
rmack350 wrote on 3/13/2007, 10:16 PM
There's been a cooking show from Norway running here in the bay area that is always done outside. Looks good. Maybe that's another approach.

Rob
Udi wrote on 3/14/2007, 2:05 AM
You can consider increasing the use of the window light, and place the guy on the other side of the sink.
If you have sun coming in, it will give you directional light and some shadows to play with. Maybe even placing a lamp outside to provide simulated sun light.

Udi
Patryk Rebisz wrote on 3/14/2007, 2:35 AM
From directing stand point you should concider getting a wooden board and place it in front of the camera so that he's facing it. AT this moment the cabinet to the right makes it look like his hiding. If he's facing the camera you will solve that issue.

Since you already have some kind of rig on the cealing i would mount small unit lights 300w max and back light the subject then place sheet of CTO on the window to bring the outside temperature to that out thungsten. Then close the blinds on the windows of the room where the camera is in and have a small Kino Flo or another soft light source hitting him from the front a bit above.
navydoc wrote on 3/14/2007, 5:56 AM
I want to thank everyone that has taken the time to reply with such great suggestions and ideas. I realized when I first thought of doing these videos that my kitchen doesn't lend itself to either good lighting or good camera angles. What you can't see in the shot is that directly between mysel...errr...the talent and the camera is a horseshoe shaped booth (think Denny's) and the camera is shooting over a half wall divider to the family room.

I positioned the camera far to the right to help eliminate light coming through the uncurtained windows to try and reduce the different types of light sources. Outside the window is a covered patio so no direct sunlight enters the window.

I think a 'butcher block' table on casters might be a good solution too. I could even set it up outside in the patio. I use my gas grill for cooking most of the time anyway.

For shots involving the cooktop, I'm doing closeups of the stove from an 'over the shoulder' point of view.

As an aside, I want to also thank DSE and VAAST for hosting my 'Reflections' tutorial. Since this was the first thing I put together using Vegas, I am still amazed that there have been over 4200 views and I still get email regarding it occasionally.


Reflections

Doc
craftech wrote on 3/14/2007, 7:52 AM
I would suggest staying away from floods or any of the other suggestions given except the one about daylight flourescents. You will end up with unnatural looking lighting. It's a kitchen for crying out loud and that is exactly what it looks like in your video.

If it were me I would just color correct it some more and leave it at that. I am sure it probably looks better than we are seeing in the .wmv version anyway and I am assuming the delivery will be a DVD.

John
Robert-N-LA wrote on 3/15/2007, 1:48 PM
I'd have to agree with John. Easier, Cheaper, Better. Let things like the incandesant hood light having a different feel to it be a good thing. If you've got indirect sunlight to work with, then a couple of bounce cards and china balls should do fine.

If I were you, I'd spend the time, money, and energy on a "tabletop dolly" so you can put in some smooth, small, camera moves to keep it interesting.
richard-courtney wrote on 3/15/2007, 9:40 PM
The lighting from the window and just right of the cabinet might be better if you shot
at night and used an artificial light outside the window if needed.
That will kill the hot spot above the pepper mill and the talents left cheek.

Anything hung from the ceiling grid should have a wide board to prevent bending the
frame. I would warm the shot as others have said with gels.

Vegitarians forgive me: meat looks better with more reddish tint. Can you place
a small red light under the cabinet? (7 watt night light)
Dan Sherman wrote on 3/16/2007, 10:17 AM
The fingers!!!???
Oooooooooooo!!!!
rique wrote on 3/16/2007, 3:45 PM
I didn't know Donald Sutherland did his own cooking. ;->
navydoc wrote on 3/17/2007, 5:37 AM
When I was younger, I was told I looked like a couple of other celebrities too.

I look like who?

Oh, and the reason the meat doesn't look red enough is because it's corned beef that's been simmering for three hours. That's why I'm grilling with a 'glaze'...to give it some color.

On the grill

8^)

Doc