Subject:Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Posted by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/5/2007 8:56:44 PM

Well, I read a whole bunch posts about clipping when recording to vinyl. But my newest problem is clipping when recording vocals. I try so hard not to clip but it happens all the time. At some point some time they (singer) will say a word to loud and it clips big time. Now should I stop the recording and do it over or is it ok for the occasion clip?

Question 2
When I record, it's in analog. I raise the bus volume until I reach desired level. But at certain points in the recording the lyrics are louder than the rest and stick out to much. If I lower the volume the rest of the lyrics are lowered. Using volume envelopes help but there becoming a nuisance. There has got to be a better way to solve this problem. How do I set a limit to recording vocals?

#3
When recording vocals in Acid 6.0. What is the best db level to record at? I just try not to reach 0db. But I still get a little distortion even at -1db.

#4
I bought Sound Forge 8 due to so many recommendations and it's compatibility with Sony 6.0 Pro. I've had it about a month in a half and haven't used it yet. Can Sound Forge possibly help with recording vocals?

#5
Can someone remind me why I bought Sound Forge again? I looked for those posts that I had read before but couldn't find them. I know it was great for a lot of other users here that work with similar genre (HIP HOP) Any advice or experiences you want to share?

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: jbolley

Date:3/6/2007 6:26:17 AM

Record without clipping the input.
Mix without clipping the output.
Learn about compressors and limiters.

Jesse

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/7/2007 6:33:59 PM

Why delete??????

That was helpful.... . .

It’s cool though.

If you could, please just answer one more for me?
If I have all my output volume buses and/or synth db's down below the clipping mark of 0. All around -5 db's including vocals. But my master meter is clipping. Though all the others are below -4 db my master output is reading 2.1db. So, is it alright to clip at the master output?

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:3/7/2007 8:33:39 PM

Nope. You have your mix too hot. Remember that the audio on all your tracks gets added together when mixing. Even if all the tracks are below 0dB, adding them together can result in the mix being over 0dB. Since you're output is hitting 2.1dB you should reduce all the tracks by at least 2.1dB to bring the mix down to an acceptable level.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/8/2007 12:33:08 PM

Ok. But then the over all volume is to low.
When people talk about raising the over all volume to their desired level or to match other CD volumes, where do they do this at?
Can it be done in CD Architect 5?

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:3/8/2007 1:48:31 PM

Lucky,
You may want to take a step back and look at the recording chain again. First of all, what is in your recording chain? Are you using a pre-amp? The reason I ask is that many people have their recording chain set up this way: mic, preamp, compressor/limiter/ sound card/ software. But some setups have most or all of these in one box. So everything is different. This isn't everything, but let's start there.

Secondly, you may need to record at a lower volume and then raise the volume (or normalize) and compress in soundforge. This is an option, but only one.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:3/8/2007 3:30:52 PM

"Ok. But then the over all volume is to low.

Then turn up the volume on your amplifier or speakers. It's all relative. You just can't let any single stage go to clipping.

You may also be perceiving the dynamics of your recording as lower volume overall. If you're not compressing then your recording will have a very wide dynamic range from the loud peaks down to the nearly silent sections. Your perceived volume will be an average of this range. For example, if your peaks are at 0dB and your quiet passages are at -24dB, then when you sit back and listen to the whole thing you may feel that it's all at -12dB.

Many commercial recordings compress and squish the dynamic range to nearly nothing. Then when the loud parts are at maximum below clipping, the quiet parts are still almost as loud and the average will be close to maximum as well. If the quiet parts have been compressed up to -4dB then the overall mix may sound like it's at -2dB, a whopping 10dB louder than your recording even though the peaks are the same level.

You can't achieve this by raising the overall volume of your recording. That would drive the peaks way up into clipping and the result will be terrible. Use some compression to make the quiet parts louder. Don't use too much though. Most serious musicians think the loud, overcompressed sound of modern commercial music sounds quite awful and wish it were more dynamic.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/8/2007 9:55:42 PM

I am using a Rode (NT1-A) mic, Presonus TubePre preamp, M-Audio FireWire Solo Interface, [connected to the computer through FIREWIRE]. No Compressor or limiter! Doesn't Sound Forge have that? What effect is that called. Would I be able to use that effect in Acid Pro or would it have to be done in Sound Forge?

Thanks for your help.
I really do appreciate it

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/8/2007 10:17:47 PM

In today's music, it seems there a standard for volume level of music. Whether hip hop, classical, rock, etc..
For example:
I have a setting of 16 on my volume level in my car stereo that hits clean and nice for every CD. For some reason every CD I put in I end up setting it to that level. It's just my natural setting and everybody has it whether I-Pod, Car Stereo or Home Stereo?

I just want to be able to sell a CD that people can listen to and be able to use there natural setting that versatile for all there other favorite CDs. Can Sound Forge help me with this?

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:3/9/2007 4:11:05 AM

Sound Forge has a compressor. It's under Effects / Dynamics. ACID has the same compressor. Open up the effects chain and add Graphic Dynamics. I would suggest staying in ACID as it's easier than switching back and forth between the two programs.

You might also want to try Wave Hammer instead as it's a bit more foolproof and doesn't require quite as much understanding of compression to tweak it well.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/9/2007 12:27:18 PM

Awesome!!!!! I am going to try that this evening
Thanks Chienworks.
You've really help a lot.
I appreciate your time and advice.

Once again Thanks

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/9/2007 12:37:42 PM

Almost forgot!

When applying the Effects / Dynamics or Wave Hammer; Would I apply it at track level through envelopes and buses or is there a way to apply it to the whole project?

Thanks

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:3/9/2007 3:50:29 PM

Applying it to the track only affects that one track. Applying it to a bus affects all tracks going into that bus. Applying it to the whole project (look for the plugin chainer icon above the master fader) affects everything. Choose whichever is appropriate. Personally, i think you'll be happier using different settings for instruments vs. vocals, but you probably want to be slightly lazy, that means that putting compression on the busses is probably the best choice. Still though, you have to decide on your own what works best in each particular project.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/9/2007 4:32:22 PM

I see what you mean now.

I tried the Expressed Dynamics and it made everything choppy. Everything sorta came out then in again.
So I tired the Wave Hammer, and it was music to my ears :)
I was able to use the voice preset and limit the whole song without clipping at all. Then I could raise the master fader to the volume I liked. Plus it sounds a hella of a lot better than the same songs rendered with clipping.


When applied to the Master fader it affects all buses including my vocals. Are you saying that it would be better to have it assigned to all busses and then use a different setting for the vocal buses?

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:3/9/2007 6:51:38 PM

I'm not saying anything of the sort, not at all. What i'm saying is that you can do it that way, or other ways, and that you need to decide based on your project what will work best for you.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: DKeenum

Date:3/9/2007 7:30:26 PM

google compression and limiting and read, read, read.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:3/11/2007 7:25:35 AM

As others have pointed out, this is a big topic to cover in a forum post especially since you are asking very basic questions about recording techniques and sound design that are application agnostic. Iacobus (mD) and I wrote a book called Instant ACID which, while based on ACID Pro 5, has a lot of relevant material such as organizing your project using buses, when to use a track FX, vs a assignable FX, vs a bus FX, (i.e., which FX goes best in each situation) how to approach the mix, and tips on mastering. It shows you how to use Wave Hammer effectively and how to watch for not clipping inputs and outputs and more importantly, what to do when they do clip to avoid it. It might be worth getting a copy. I'm not saying this because it's my book, it's just that I wrote those chapters especially for people who are just getting started and need a push in the right direction to get productive quickly and it seems to answer a lot of the questions you are asking.

~jr

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Robert-N-LA

Date:3/15/2007 5:58:59 PM

If I can add a humble input from theatre actor/tech...

I talked with a sound board operator friend who worked with me in a theme park. He said, "A good board op should always have his/her hands on the board." Meaning, you don't set one level and leave it. You're a part of the group just as much as one of the musicians. Rehearse with them, play the board during the recording so that you're bringing down the highs and pulling the lows up from the noise. That's why they call it mixing.

A phrase you should never say more than once or twice in production... "we'll fix it in post." Post has enough to do without fixing things production was too lazy to fix in the first place.

Subject:RE: Audio (Voice) Recording Clipping

Reply by: Luckyzl230

Date:3/21/2007 7:54:00 PM

Thanks for all the good advice.
I explored and goggled Compressors and Limiters and was just amazed at the different kinds there are and how they can help you in so many ways. It seems like the wave hammer is like a compressor, limiter, enhancer and like three other different effects. And it can be used with many different instruments, loops, Soft synth and buses too.

Once again I just wanted to say thanks for EVERYBODIIES help!
:)

Lucky