The colorful alignment lines are kinda neat. Oh, and v7 handles HDV m2t clips much better. Otherwise, about the same.

Don't mess around with the neighbor's HDV camcorder--the widescreen and sharpness can be very addictive, especially if you just bought a widescreen TV for the home.

Cinescore is probably the main reason to upgrade at least before the Cinescore discount runs out. If you think you going to get Cinescore, it's probably best to buy it with the upgrade package.

The new snapping is a great feature, I like painting envelopes and the new way to save layouts is nice, but other than that no too much is jumping out at me. If you download the demo, you can see if Vegas 7 is faster for your projects or if you need the new previewing options. Then you can ask yourself, if this is worth $149. Also remember, you are getting the new DVDA as well for that price. But a lot of the upgrades were on the higher end this time. I assume you're not shooting HDV.


Just go here and see if you need the stuff marked new.

i was waiting for the update to come through before buying, but cn someone tell me whether DV is any faster?
or VTS mpgs are more efficient?

I was hoping for the bugs to be fixed before the promo ended, but i guess il have to buy noiw na dwait until the bugs are fixed...
but this would help either way..

"I was hoping for the bugs to be fixed before the promo ended, but i guess il have to buy noiw na dwait until the bugs are fixed..."

You don't have to install it until you're ready.

"I am running version 6, am a hobbyist who does 4 to 5 family type videos a year. "

I don't buy this - at ALL!!

You are a creator of video and audio content! I can think of "others" who only make 4 or 5 vids a year - or even one over 10 years! - SO?!? You want the BEST for yourself and your family? You want to create and experiment in video and audio? Then why not GET the best? Having options to experiment with your creative abilities AND get stretched then go for it! Go and upgrade. If the money is an issue then don't - I can see that. But don't ever position yourself behind the "hobbyist" wall. Hey guy, you may even "turn" your pursuit into a paying business? And THEN you would be thanking me for pushing you further! Expression is all - no price on creativity - NONE!!!

Do I think you will feel better for upgrading to SEVEN? I wouldn't know. That's your call.

Bottom line here? From me? If you CAN afford it always get the best you can afford. Well, here it is - Vegas7!

Grazie, you've expressed that well. Everyone, hobbyist et al, should be satisfied with only the best they can do. Mind, that usually leaves me unsatisfied because I might have done so much better if only I'd done this or that!

Seven is faster when it comes to rendering - significantly faster.
Cinescore is incredibly useful.
DVD Architect is an absolute godsend - worth the upgrade price alone.

There are lots of little enhancement that one their own leave one wondering "why bother?" but taken together, they all add up, greatly improve the workslow, and generally make vegas 7 much more pleasurable to use, at the same time as improving productivity.

If you van get the basic job done quicker, then you'll have more time to master the tools you use to make the final video better.

Worley

Precisely Worley. Creative workflow IS about trying stuff out, seeing that is is good or not trying something else out and moving on. Now, if I've got the tools to do this faster and more readily available then my . .. ok {EDIT} let's forget about "workflow" let's call it NARRATIVE-Flow gets better and better. I can GET at/to the story I want to tell faster and with more pace and purpose. Pace and Purpose! THAT'S the point. But to do that I need to try out different "sketches" and "scribbles". Vegas 7 is the "Canine's Danglers!"

"The canine's conkers" - absolutely!

Worley

Let's just hang on a minute here. bbq wiz is making 'family videos'. Just precisely what that is I can only guess but the typical fare is holidays, birthdays, xmas, school performances etc. In other words records of events. And by all accounts the guy has a limited budget, he's not making money out of this and seems like he's not interested in doing that either. So $149 is a fair slab of cash, perhaps his whole budget for his hobby this year.
Now from what I've seen of the average 'family video' I can think of a lot of things that $149 could be spent on that'd improve his videos and none of them are an upgrade to Vegas, I'd even question why he needs Vegas, VMS would probably be more than adequate. Heck I've seen damn fine narrative dramas edited in iMove or WMM.
In the hardware department I'd suggest, a tripod (or perhaps a better one), for trips a monopod is a good buy. Better sound gear (or even just some sound gear, a $20 external mic can make a world of difference).
In the creative department, well what's in front of the camera is where it all starts, how you record it is where it continues, framing, camera angle etc. Getting good clean sound helps no end too. Spending some cash on learning these skills probably wouldn't hurt a bit, these things are where it all starts and they're the most important part of the creative process. Plenty of both excellent and appallingly bad vision (and sound) has been made using nothing more than a camera, no editing, no post work at all. I've seen some very imaginative animated titles created in camera, cost peanuts and I'd reckon the guy who did them decades ago had a ball doing them.
If bbw wiz has got all the above down pat then comes the editing part, or maybe not, really depends on what he's shooting. And of course better tools such as V7 compared to V6 can ease the process so you can focus more on what you're doing and less on what you're doing it with. Then again a faster CPU might do the same thing.
Not saying V7 isn't worth the $149, I didn't hesitate paying the toll, but if all I was making was family videos for my families archives I don't know, I could think of many things that I need to improve and a better pair of scissors isn't going to make any difference to my skills, a badly timed cut is a badly timed cut no matter what made the cut. Not to say that I haven't made the mistake of thinking that I could always do better if only I had better tools and that's accross a whole range of fields I've dabbled in.

Bob.

Bob, you're right.

Really Grazie was saying the same thing: do the best you are capable of doing. Which means being able to see one's weaknesses. Too often we think more expensive tools are the answer -- good point.

I appreciate the many comments.

I'm in the middle of a project for my son's Eagle Court of Honor, and was concerned about downloading the new version and having any issues with two versions on my PC. Let me know if this a non-issue.

DVDA-what are the key important upgrade points about it that are must haves?

You can definitely have Vegas 6 and Vegas 7 on your machine simultaneously.

However, you start to edit projects in Vegas 7, those vegs will not be readable by Vegas 6. So if you did any significant work on a project in Vegas 7, you are almost locking yourself into upgrading.

V7 can read V6 veg files, but V6 cannot read V7 veg files.

There's nothing between V4 and V7 that are Must Haves for basic editing. Plenty of good stuff is still being done in V4.

If you're making a DVD then the one really important improvement in V7 is being able to get chapter markers on I frames. Even that's not so much of an issue, I've got around it in the past by always having my chapter markers hit short sections of black.
But certainly if you cannot work around the issue then you need V7 and DVDA 4.

true re no big differences from V4 to V7. Particularly for hobbyists. I can do everything in V4 I can in V7, with virtually Zero difference in workflow or speed or functionality. The only reason I upgraded was to be able to use the multicam edit scripts for 2/3-camera pro DVD shoots, like Ultimate S. You'll see virtually no difference, other than minor cosmetic bs, from V4 to V7. Disappointedly. C'mon guys, lets be honest here. A few minor tweaks is it. That's the truth.

Ken

You'll see virtually no difference, other than minor cosmetic bs, from V4 to V7. Disappointedly. C'mon guys, lets be honest here. A few minor tweaks is it.

Ken, why do you keep using vegas if it's so disappointing? Obviously, Sony's not going to do anything with the titler. And so be it. I also was not entralled with the titler when i first started using Vegas. I wanted bevels and metal finishes and the whole nine yards.

But a funny thing happens when you don't have oodles and oodles of bells and whistles: You actually concentrate on the basics. Crisp editing, good sound and clean titles. Attributes somewhat missing in your videos. The best titler in the world can't compensate for poor production values.

So if you were "editing for a living", you'd know V5, V6 and V7 have made decent improvements over V4.

Ken, Overall I like you, and I enjoy your posts, but this post is the most idiotic thing I've seen you say in some time. You of all people, making money with the product (as I do) should know that the changes made in V7 are just that... MONEY. These time saving tools are so useful that I can't stand going back into V6 because I just see all the extra bits of work here and there I have to do, and let's not forget the optimizations done to speed things up saving more time (IE making more money per hour).

Like I said, I like you, your posts (usually) and the fact that you are out there making your own way successfully, but saying there is virtually no difference between Vegas 4 and Vegas 7??? you forgot your glasses man.

No offense, but V7 gives you so much that it's not even funny:

Nesting, Enhanced Rendering speeds, Native M2T file support, (3D compositing?), enhanced Keyboard functionality, Workflow enhancements (worth an upgrade in those alone), I'm pretty sure that Surround Sound is in there somewhere but I'm not sure, Enhanced multithreading support, enhanced multithreading for audio, Blackmagic/decklink/aja support, extra support for files from DVD discs, and the list goes on. Then there's enhancements to DVDA, not to mention support for HDV, and Cineform DI's. This is just the short list, You may not use it, but BELIEVE ME, they're there, and they make all the difference for folks that are making a living with this stuff.

Dave

hi Dave.. thanks.. well perhaps it's just my fault for not knowing how to take advantage of what appears to be minor improvements in V7. I'll look forward to seeing Spot's latest video, to show me how to leverage these improvements.

But let's compare .. for example, when I see a new software upgrade from other vendors, like Flash 4 to flash 6mx/Studio.. I see major changes like slashing file sizes and better quality encoding, on a noticeable basis.

Or when I see changes in say Ultra 1 to Ultra 2, I got major new changes, like shadowing and significantly enhanced keying skills/functions.

That's what I value.

But when I look at "does V4-V7" make a big difference in *how* I use the platform, or if it really has improved my video production workflow Significantly? The answer is a resounding NO. And I stand behind that. Vidcap still lame. Missing a lot of basics, like titling, that should've been there by now. There have been a few minor tweaks, and that's it.

Really. Nothing along the lines of what we should expect from a professional software organization, on release cycles. It's been a neglected platform, at least compared to what I would've probably seen had Sonic Foundry still owned it. What would They have done with it by now? A lot more, I'll bet. Think about it.

And look at the thread I started that said "What Improvements would you like to see in Vegas 7b?". Over A HUNDRED posts from fellow Vegas users who are missing what we need. So I'm not alone.

Yes I regularly make hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales from the DVDs I produce. I will always be a successful producer. Platform independent. But I wish I could see more action out of the vegas development team, to really take it to the next level. That's all I'm saying. I'm a big fan of Vegas; I use it daily to make a living, and that's exactly Why I wish I could see the same care and work effort put into it, and it's development, that I and most of you, put into your video productions, to make them even better. It's all about accountability, results and performance.

Ken

After hearing the pros and cons, I have decided I can live with Ver 6 for now.

Instead I'll purchase some Digital Juice products they have a special on till the end of the month. I believe I can get more bang for the bucks right now, make a significant improvement in my DVD's for about the same expense.

Thanks for the input to everyone

Wiz

To not upgrade from V4 to V7 for a measly $149 makes me suspect of the "I'm making hundreds of thousands of dollars" claim. You must not be using a dual core processor, otherwise the Vegas 7 trial would impress you. With the money you're supposedly making, I'd think you'd have a top of the line PC.

I started with V3, upgraded to V5 and just purchased V7 yesterday. So with the orginal purchase and subsequent upgrades, I probably haven't spent more than $700 total. So I don't know what you're blowing your money on that makes the upgrades too pricey. I guess hokey virtual sets are more important.

DGates, no need to be rude man. Ken is a consistent contributor to these forums and gets a lot of good conversations going. Plus he has made quite a lot of money off of his work. Granted, content is the reason for his sales, he has made more money with the work he's done in vegas than many of us have.

Ken, If I was going from V1 to V2 or even from 2-3 or 3-4 I would expect major changes (things are still being figured out etc... but the fact remains that there are changes in the software that you will probably never use, and if you don't need them, don't upgrade, BUT, for a freelance editor such as myself, who has to work with whatever he's given, and who's time is very precious, I see substantial returns from these minor improvements. If you want to see some speed hook up to a core 2 duo in the near or above 2 Ghz range and watch vegas scream. I'm running a core 2 duo 1.83, and am seeing performance that I would never have seen had it not been for the ho-hum advancements that have been made lately. Not to mention the fact that as they make these advancements that get Vegas more widely used/accepted, we see more 3rd party plugs etc... I don't really know what we would have seen if SOFO had stayed, but I have a feeling that the results would have been pretty similar because some/many of the same folks are still on the team. Vegas has focused on catering to a higher end crowed this last release and you may have no use for higher end features, but to say that multi-threading, nesting projects, added format support, and improved codecs are not worth much is a load of doo doo.

I would hope that you would see a good long post on what people would like to see in the next version, that means that folks are giving sony ideas. I've seen things that were listed back when I started on these forums coming into play in the last couple releases, and their's always room for improvement for sure, but of those 100+ posts how many were actually suggesting something? I've seen those threads before, they get into a lot of back and forth. The number of posts climb and climb but the number of ideas stay pretty steady.

All in all though, if you are terribly unsatisfied with the product you can always switch. As it stands Vegas is the least expensive of the professional solutions, the only one that can handle as many formats and codecs in it's price range, and now that they've done what everyone else should have done a while ago, they are getting on to other things that matter to folks who use this at more than just a basic level. Anyway, that means that you won't lose much money on a switch (comparitively).

Dave