Subject:Remove FX chain

Posted by: feign

Date:10/4/2006 3:12:39 AM

I have struggled for hours with this! I have put together a couple FX chains and saved them in my packaged chains list. I have two questions, which the Help files don't answer for me:

1) How can I later tell which tracks the FX are applied to (other than listening to them)? I can't find anywhere that indicates whether a track has any effects applied.

2) Once I've applied an FX chain to a track, how can I remove it, without deleting the chain?

3) How can I apply a chain to just one clip on a track, without it being applied to all the other clips on that same track?

I am baffled by all this. Using Acid Pro 6.0b on Win2K.

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/4/2006 4:23:19 AM

> 1) How can I later tell which tracks the FX are applied to (other than listening to them)? I can't find anywhere that indicates whether a track has any effects applied.

The FX button on each track header uses different colors to tell you about the FX. Gray means no FX. Green means FX have been applied (other colors have other meanings but in general, it is gray off, color on). The problem you are probably seeing is that by default all tracks have the Track EQ applied so all of your tracks will show this button as green. You can remove the Track EQ and then right-click the header and select Set Default Track Properties... and the new default will be to not add any FX.

> 2) Once I've applied an FX chain to a track, how can I remove it, without deleting the chain?

You have to remove the FX one at a time. This has been my beef with FX chains. They have no identity of their own and so once applied you cannot tell them from the single FX.

> 3) How can I apply a chain to just one clip on a track, without it being applied to all the other clips on that same track?

Use FX automation. Add the FX to the track, then use an FX Automation envelope to only turn it on for the events that you want and off for those you don't.

~jr

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: feign

Date:10/5/2006 3:27:16 AM

Thanks. Wow, that's complicated! Setting the default to no FX is easy. But then having to remove FX one at a time from each separate clip is a lot of work when there are 35 clips on the track and only 3 should have FX.

The last bit about FX automation really sucks! It seems that I have to choose which individual aspects of each effect will be automated. Since I want ALL aspects of each effect from my chain to be removed from non-FX clips, I end up with around 80+ automation envelopes. Either I'm not understanding FX Automation properly, or to repeat my point: this truly SUCKS.

The only alternative seems to be to make a duplicate track and place the clips with FX on one track and leave the other track without. But this adds clutter. Every new track makes that much more work to scroll up and down the workspace.

I was really loving Acid Pro 6 until now.

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/5/2006 10:57:56 AM

>>The last bit about FX automation really sucks! It seems that I have to choose which individual aspects of each effect will be automated. Since I want ALL aspects of each effect from my chain to be removed from non-FX clips, I end up with around 80+ automation envelopes. Either I'm not understanding FX Automation properly, or to repeat my point: this truly SUCKS.<

In some cases this will be required. However, many FX provide for a "bypass" automation. If you enable this as an automatable param and then se the the curve type to hold (for those that don't communicate this as being an on/off param) you can then control easily when the FX will process the media on the time line.

Peter

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: feign

Date:10/5/2006 5:04:34 PM

Peter, thanks. I don't actually understand your explanation, though. I no stoopid, but I suppose I'm not very experienced with using FX automation. I wish there was some tutorial to show, with illustrations, exactly what you're trying to explain.

As I get more experienced with Acid, the more I want to fine tune things and work with FX, but I'm finding this issue of FX automation and turning things on an off to be a huge (and to me, unnecessarily complex) obstacle.

I understand that the current method enables very experienced users to have extreme fine control over FX. But this comes at the expense of someone like me who wants to be able to just turn things up and down or on and off. In fact, considering that in most other aspects, Acid is quite easy and intuitive to use, the FX issue is a small quagmire of confusion.

And why have a feature like packaged chains that you can easily apply...and then which are a huge pain to remove? Again, very counter-intuitive.

It seems that once you progress past the stage of cobbling together loops and playing with pan and volume envelopes, suddenly Acid becomes a labyrinth of complexity.

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/5/2006 6:59:11 PM

No more complex than any of the other tools out there. In fact considerably less complex than many of the other hosts.

FX and automation are not trivial matters and you have to learn how to use them like any other aspect of an application if you want to go beyond basics.

There is very good coverage in our Manual on using envelopes and automation. It may prove useful for you to read through it.

Our FX Packages have functioned like this since we first added there support. I am not saying that we can't improve on them, but it has never been brought up as a showstopper in the past.

You should consider obtaining our traing seminar DVDs or one of the wonderful books available that cover ACID (though currently only ACID 5.)

In the end there is a very fine line we walk with adding the features users demand and making is simple for novices like you. We strive to make it more accessible and we will certainly discuss your complexity issues and see what we can do to make ACID easier to navigate.

Peter

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: feign

Date:10/5/2006 7:26:50 PM

Peter,

Yes you're right. Though I'm not such a total novice, except when it comes to this FX issue. I'm not a musician, so perhaps I don't need the very fine controls of every feature. Like many people, I'm using Acid to produce video soundtracks (sorry, Acid is far better than Cinescore). We are a minority user base, but a solid one.

To me it's not a matter of adding features versus making things simple for novices. It's just that this one particular issue of packaged FX chains seems to need further development (as even a more experienced user alludes to above). It's great that you can put together an FX chain. It's great that you can apply a packaged chain to multiple tracks with a single click per track. Brilliant! But I think even very experienced users would enjoy the ability to remove custom chains in a single action as well!

And I also think that being able to automate an entire effect or an entire chain with a single envelope is something that both experienced and novice users would find useful. Let's hope these features pop up in Acid 7.

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:10/6/2006 3:56:19 AM

> But then having to remove FX one at a time from each separate clip is a lot of work when there are 35 clips on the track and only 3 should have FX.

You are misunderstanding how easy it is. You set the FX up to sound exactly how you want. Then you find the one automatable parameter that controls their output. Maybe it’s ByPass like Peter said, maybe it’s Output. Whatever it is, you only automate this one parameter AND you only add 6 points. One at the beginning and one at the end of each of the 3 clips you want the effect on.

Perhaps if you tell us which FX you’re using, we can help you find the parameter.

> I wish there was some tutorial to show, with illustrations, exactly what you're trying to explain.

We cover this briefly in the Instant ACID book. It’s not really that hard. In fact we show you that you can open the FX and tweak the knobs and dials in real-time and have the automation envelope record it.

I can probably add a tutorial on this to my web site. I’ll need a day or two to find the time but I don’t mind doing it if it will help you out.

> It seems that once you progress past the stage of cobbling together loops and playing with pan and volume envelopes, suddenly Acid becomes a labyrinth of complexity.

You can say this about almost every experience in your life. Anyone can learn to hit a baseball, but if you want to hit like Babe Ruth or Pete Rose it takes an extra level of understanding and effort. ;-)

~jr

Subject:RE: Remove FX chain

Reply by: pwppch

Date:10/6/2006 8:36:32 AM

I agree with everything you say. It is our job to make it both easy and powerful - not an easy thing to pull off.

We have a number of ideas to make this better and we will be reviewing this for a future version of ACID.

Thanks
Peter