Subject:Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Posted by: joesixpack123

Date:4/30/2006 11:01:58 PM

Hi,

Can anyone use Proteus or Emulator vsti's with AP6?

I can't. The synths start and I can use them for a while, then the sound from the vsti just stops. Apparently all MIDI data is no longer being transferred to the plugin.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here with that issue, but it is pretty frustrating anyway. Does anyone have a workaround?

Thanks,
-JS

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: miquel

Date:4/30/2006 11:39:32 PM

Confirmed.

I've just ordered Emulator X2. I hope it will solve some problems.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: miquel

Date:5/24/2006 8:04:26 AM

Emulator X2 installed. When Acid Pro 6 opens a saved project, CPU 100% while EMUX2 loads a bank .

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/24/2006 5:36:05 PM

Are there any more details you can offer?

I am working with Emulator and Proteus with out any issues.

I have requested a license of Emulator2 and Proteus2 so we can also take a look at mahtazz's problem.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: miquel

Date:5/24/2006 10:07:26 PM

I am working with Emulator and Proteus with out any issues.

Here, with EmulatorX v.1.52, it seems AcidPro6 doesn't remember which bank was previously saved. I have to assign the EmulatorX VSTi softsynth to the midi track and to load the bank and preset manually each time I load the .acd project.
Do you know what I'm doing wrong?


I have requested a license of Emulator2 and Proteus2 so we can also take a look at mahtazz's problem.

Thank you so very much, Peter.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: miquel

Date:5/25/2006 12:08:36 AM

Peter,

After some of tests, I found that this issue do not happens with Microsoft Mapper/Directsound, only with the damn EMU ASIO driver.

I'll continue with more tests.

Thank you.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: ACID France

Date:5/25/2006 12:15:09 AM

"Here, with EmulatorX v.1.52, it seems AcidPro6 doesn't remember which bank was previously saved. I have to assign the EmulatorX VSTi softsynth to the midi track and to load the bank and preset manually each time I load the .acd project."

Same problem with Proteus X.

http://www.acidfrance.com

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: ACID France

Date:5/25/2006 12:16:31 AM

"The synths start and I can use them for a while, then the sound from the vsti just stops."

Same problem with Proteus X.

http://www.acidfrance.com

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/25/2006 7:56:19 AM

Yes, this problem happens with both of the EMU VSTis.

The cause is the saving of the VSTi state when saving the project.

My guess is that the suddend loss of sound is due to ACID's autosave feature.

The EMU synths fail when saving in a bad way. This prevents the EMU from saving its current sample set and there for a subsequent load will not correclty set up the EMIU.

I have been unable to reproduce this problem with other VSTis not from EMU.

I have contacted EMU with the cause of this problem. There is currently no work around other than to turn off autosave in ACID and then manually reset the EMU sample library when the project is loaded.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: MrVip

Date:5/26/2006 3:33:01 PM

hey SonyPCH ,

this is an Acid issue. FLstudio aka Fruityloops had the same problem. until they came out with their last update that corrected the problem. where the sample set wouldn't be saved and what not. it works great now. no issues. Whatever FL studio did. is the same thing sony needs to do to correct the problem.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: randygo

Date:5/26/2006 5:06:59 PM

Well, it could still very well be an "Emu issue".

FL Studio may have only added a workaround for some deficiency in Emu's implementation.

Cheers,

Randy

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: MrVip

Date:5/29/2006 12:40:40 AM

randygo,
the reason i said it was an Acid issue instead of an Emu issue. because its not up to EMU to make their Sampler Save friendly with Acid 6(which wasn't around prior to their release of Emulator X, or Emulator X2. they had nothing to test with. But the Acid guys had the ability to test Emulator X and Emulator X2, to see if it would save correctly. if both emulator's work, so would proteus. and besides. the FLstudio work around(if that what it was), wasn't to hard to pull off. so why would the Acid guys not do it?

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/29/2006 6:41:10 PM

This problem is not unique to ACID 6. The problem can be reproduced with both ACID 4 and ACID 5. This is the first we have heard of the problem.

While we would like to be able to test with every VSTi on the planet, that is not possible. That is why there is a VST standard and SDK.

The best any host developer can do is test with a reasonable sub-set and expect that all VSTis behave in the same manner as described by the VST SDK.

When situations like this arise, we determine the cause and then either fix it and/or contact the VSTi developer/vendor if the problem is unique. We will work with any third party plugin vendor that is willing. We want to have the best support for all third party plugins. We do everything we can when problems like this arise. Only the plugin vendor can tell us why they are crashing internally.

The EMU VSTis are failing in a very peculiar way. We have as yet to discover another VSTi that fails in this way. It is unique to Emulator/Proteus. The particulars of this failure prevent any easy solution and until EMU can tell us why Emulator/Proteus is failing, we cannot move forward.

I can't speak for how ImageLine fixed this in FLStudio - if it is even the same problem. Nobody but ImageLine could tell us if it is the exact same problem we have discovered with the EMU VSTis.

Do you know the details of the problem that FLStudio had?

We are working with EMU on the problem and a solution. We have an outstanding relationship with EMU. Sony and EMU are determined to assure complete compatability between our products.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: miquel

Date:5/30/2006 1:55:58 AM

While we would like to be able to test with every VSTi on the planet, that is not possible

I agree with you, but EMU could test the main hosts.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: Davetheonemendez

Date:5/30/2006 8:08:46 AM

I have the same problem with Emulator x 1.52 and also my nostalgia vsti.

I am ok when recording, when I press the space bar to stop recording on 2 occasions it happened right away, other times it played back fine but after about a minute i have no midi transmitted and no audio. There is absolutley no Midi data able to transmit from my radium 61 nor my trigger finger. This does not happen to me in nuendo, I have different problems in Nuendo.

I suspect the emu asio driver and patchmix. Patchmix is trivial in setting up properly for a multi channel session. Emu offers no direction in setting it up with Acid Pro, Nuendo or Cubase SX.

Emu suggested I do a re-install of windows. I did just that; I opted to just buy a new Seagate SATA 7200 rpm drive (160) and make that the new C drive and re-installed windows xp pro sp2. In both my original install and this new re-install all the audio is coming from a seperate SATA 150 drive that is dedicated to audio files.

With the new windows install on new drive, the only apps I have installed are Emulator X, Acid Pro 6 and Nuendo. Acid Pro 6 still fails me in the same way as described above. In Nuendo I have strange problems when trying to play an instrument on a different midi channel/track. The sound is terribly low and reverberated.

It's definitley the Asio driver; when I re-installed Acid pro 6, no sound was coming out of the 1212m; when I switched from the asio driver to direct sound; then back to the asio driver, I got sound.

If you notice, emulator x2 no longer requires an emu sound card. I guess Emu got tired of people complaining about their asio drivers and decided to make the emulator x2 and proteus x2 standalone vsti's without the need for audio hardware. Instead it uses a small midi interface as the copy protection/dongle.

I haven't yet installed nostalgia on the fresh install of windows xp pro sp2. Will report back with deets once I do.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/30/2006 9:23:41 AM

The problem we have discovered has nothing to do with the EMU hardware or ASIO drivers. (Unless EMU determines otherwise.)

What is

nostalgia vsti

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: Davetheonemendez

Date:5/30/2006 10:42:39 AM

I meant no disrespect to emu and apologize for assuming it was the ASIO driver.

Nostalgia is a vsti made by zero-g, it has the native instrument interface for working the vsti. Same thing happened to me with losing sound and getting no midi data on playback or inputting notes (no midi signal at all)

How do you have patchmix set-up to work with Acid pro (how many channel strips and what specific sends/returns are used)? This would help a great deal with getting the emu 1212m soundcard working with Acid pro (at least for me)

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/30/2006 4:08:46 PM

I see. Nostalgia is a sample library that uses NI's engine (Kompakt?).

Do you know what version of the NI player/engine it uses?

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: Davetheonemendez

Date:5/30/2006 6:17:38 PM

unfortunatley I do not know. It's relativley new (the plugin) so i would imagine it's the latest engine.

I was suspecting the asio driver because something similar used to happen with reason 3.0 with digidesigns wavedriver. I would have to select any other driver then re-select digi's wavedriver and all would work well again. This did happen to me with Acid pro 5.0 too. I would select classic driver or whatever it's called then reselect the digidesign wavedriver.

I could be wrong about nostalgia; it may have been the korg legacy plugin; as soon as I get a chance to re-install both i'll be happy to test for you. I'm getting some work out of the way first then i'll spend some time with my plugins and acid pro.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: Davetheonemendez

Date:6/2/2006 10:40:38 AM

what's the story with emu vsti's? are they working now with 6.0a?

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:6/2/2006 11:28:17 AM

This is not something that we can fix as it is a bug in the EMU plugins, which EMU has confirmed and invesigating.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: miquel

Date:6/2/2006 11:26:36 PM

I did say it you! <grin>

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: greedysoul

Date:9/13/2006 3:33:32 AM

Any news on the problem saving the VST state for Proteus X? Whenever I reload the project, the Proteus X VST is reset to default and the Proteus VST busses are reset to that darn DLS synth...

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/13/2006 7:43:56 AM

EMU has stated they have found and fixed the problem and are preparing an update to Emulator/ProteusX version 2. They don't appear to have any plans to make the fix in the version 1 of these plugins.

However, since this was not happening in a timely manner and because the version 1 of these VSTis were not likely to be updated, we have addressed this on our side as best we can.

The next update to ACID 6 will provide a solution for this problem.

No, I don't know when this update will be released.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: greedysoul

Date:9/13/2006 7:47:57 AM

That's very cool, because I just ordered X version 2 so I can try and see if that resolves the issue in Acid once their update becomes available. I expect this problem might happen in other sequencers as well. Thanks a lot for the info.

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: joesixpack123

Date:9/13/2006 5:25:11 PM

Wacky! Too bad for me I just have Emu-X 1, but maybe the Acid Pro6 patch will save my bacon.

Also, FWIW, on 8/7/06, they told me they would be releasing a Emu-X 1 patch to address this:

Dear Valued E-MU Customer;

Yes, We are still working on the ACID 6 Pro problem. We expect to have a hot fix for Emulator X within the near future. We are hoping within 60-days.

*********************************
Hopefully they'll keep their word!

SonyPCH, can you clue us in any further as to the root cause of the issue here?

-JS

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/13/2006 7:21:34 PM

>>SonyPCH, can you clue us in any further as to the root cause of the issue here?<<

When ACID saves out its project data, this includes the current internal settings of VSTis.

This save is done on a specific thread in ACID. This thread is different than the User Interface thread. ACID does this so that the user can save with out blocking playback and to support things like cancel of long saves and autosave.

The EMU plugins internally don't like being saved on any thread other than the User Interface thread. They dislike it so much that they cause a code exception internally.

The end result is that no data is saved to the project file concerning the plugin's state. What ends up happening is that the project file does not have enough information to permit the EMU plugins to restore their previous state.

The net result is that the your ACID project cannot restore the EMU plugins and the EMU plugins go silent in ACID.

Peter

Subject:RE: Acid Pro 6 and Emu vsti's

Reply by: joesixpack123

Date:9/14/2006 6:14:12 PM

Wow, that very accurately describes my experience. Basically, totally f'd up. Still lovin' AP6 though.

Hopefully, between the patch for EmuX2 and the forthcoming AP6 patch, I'll be back in biz.

Can you give any kind of ballpark release estimate for the AP6 patch?

Thanks,
-JS