Subject:Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Posted by: RedStone

Date:9/8/2006 1:05:13 PM

I have an Acid project that I want to sync with another project done in another program. I cannot set the other app to accept timecode information, but I can send it. So, I have to use it as the host and set Acid to accept timecode info. The idea is that when I press play, or move the cursor in the host app, acid will mimic the action and timleine position.

The timecode is being sent with VMR on midi port 1

I can't seem to get acid to accept incomming timecode ... is there a certain port that I should use? (there is no other midi in the project)

help would be awesome!

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/8/2006 1:17:34 PM

Make sure that the VMR is being used for MTC via Options > Preferences > Sync. Then right-click the time display and choose, "MIDI Timecode In," to display MTC input. Then press Ctrl+F7. The display should change to "MIDI Timcode In - Waiting..."

When you press play in the host app, ACID should sync up with it at that point.

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:9/8/2006 3:09:37 PM

Skip Sony's Virtual Midi router. I've tried it and it doesn't work on my WinXP machine. I think they stopped supporting it. I battled with it and never got it to work after following the steps to the T. Go and get Midi Yoke instead. I uninstalled VMR and installed Midi Yoke and it worked as it should. My feeling is that you are having the same problems I have run across with VMR. If it is the same problem, then it's not what you're doing.....it's what the VMR isn't doing as to why it is not working.

Midi Yoke:
http://www.midiox.com/index.htm?http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/8/2006 4:44:46 PM

The VMR works with no problems under WinXP. The install is a bit difficult because it is a NT driver. It is what we test - and dev against - when working like this: Sync'ing ACID to host with MTC or hosts to ACID using MTC/MIDIClock.

If you could be specific in how the VMR didn't work for you and how you had it configured, perhaps we could provide you with some guidance.

Peter

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: RedStone

Date:9/10/2006 12:18:02 PM

Thanks for the replies (Peter et all),

I wanted to be able to press "play" in my host app, and have acid chase the timecode (I think that's the right terminology?)

Here's how I set it up (as best as I can describe it):

I installed VMR with no trouble and set the number of ports available to 4

In my host app, I inserted a timecode generator track, and set the FPS to 30 (for audio), and selected the VMR device and midi channel 1 as the send.

I have my host app set up to send midi timecode only, and acid is set up to only reviece ...

In Acid, I chose the "Sonic Foundry VMR 1" to accept midi input, and left the "routing" to "audio.

In the midi sync properties, I set the "trigger from midi timecode" to SMPTE Non-drop 30fps" and the input device to Sonic Foundtry VMR 1 (can't remember the exact name, but it was the only option)

In the mixer window, I set the time to display as "midi timecode in" and I also pressed ctrl+F7 to toggle the "trigger from midi time code" option

So the issue is that when I press play in the host app, it's play cursor moves, but it doesn't move in Acid. (I had a project loaded in acid to test with)

hope I didn't miss anything ...
Thanks,
R

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: RedStone

Date:9/10/2006 12:25:46 PM

midiyoke is the devil ... at least it was on my computer :)

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/10/2006 7:34:08 PM

Your configuration sounds correct.

What is the host app you have sending MIDI Time Code to ACID?

Peter

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: RedStone

Date:9/11/2006 9:11:54 AM

I am using reaper v1.09 to send the midi time code.

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:9/11/2006 11:19:04 AM

Well, here's what I did on my WinXP machine with no luck.

1. I installed the VMR, 1 port NT version install for WinXP.
2. I went into Vegas, MIDI tab and selected the VMR port1 available for Midi OUT and IN, since I wanted to sync both ways.
3. I set the timecode formate to 30fps non-drop
4. I enabled Generate Midi Timecode.
5. I went into Acid. Did steps 2-3 as I did in Vegas.
6. I enabled Trigger from Midi Timecode in Acid receive format set to 30fps non-drop.
7. Acid displays "Waiting Timecode".
8. I hit play in Vegas. I set the time display to show MTC out in Vegas, to be sure Vegas was sending out MTC and Acid still displays "Waiting Timecode".

Further trouble shooting, trying all the different preferences of close/open midi/audio ports when not the active application, to be sure Acid/Vegas was not closing the midi port when not active.

9. I gave up after a few hours of trying to get it to work.
10. I uninstalled VMR, and then installed Midi Yoke and did the same steps as I did above. So the exact same settings and configuration, the only thing that was different was the virtual midi driver software. This time Acid chased to the timecode that Vegas was sending out to Midi Yoke.

10. I had Acid generate timecode, and had Vegas receive and it worked that way also.

So I'm not sure where the problem was. Vegas showed that it was generating timecode on it's display, and Acid sat there with a "Waiting Timecode" and blinking at me. I thought, having both the IN and OUT available in both apps, might be a problem, so I disabled the VMR IN as being available in Vegas, and disabled the VMR OUT in Acid, to have Acid chase to Vegas. Still no luck. Alls, I can say is that Midi Yoke worked for me and VMR didn't.

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/11/2006 11:54:21 AM

The intended functionality is to use one of the inputs for one host and the matching output in the other host. If you don't do this, then you are generating an infinite MIDI loop.

So, when you enabled both the input and output for the single VMR device in a single host you effectively created a feedback loop.

So, if you want both hosts to have a virtual MIDI in and out, then you need to set the VMR with two devices.

Example:
Assign MIDI VMR 1 out to ACID and MIDI VMR 2 input to ACID
Assign MIDI VMR 2 Out to Vegas and MIDI VMR 1 input to Vegas

Vegas will recieve MIDI from ACID on VMR 1 input
ACID will recieve MIDI from Vegas on VMR 2 input.

Set it up this way and the VMR should work just fine.

Peter

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:9/11/2006 2:08:09 PM

Thanks, that is what I thought I did the first time when I made VMR OUT1 available only in Vegas and VRM IN1 in Acid in my trouble shooting, like I said in the last paragraph above. I'll try it again some other time and have it expose 2in/2out VMR ports, but to be honest I stopped trying with VMR when I was able to get Midi Yoke to do it, since they where both free utilities.

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/11/2006 4:12:39 PM

Hey, if you got it working with MIDI Yoke, then this is all achedemic at best.

Working is goodness and the ultimate goal in the end.

Peter

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: Ben 

Date:9/12/2006 2:35:21 PM

Of course if Vegas had ReWire host/slave implemented (or ACID and Vegas were linked by some proprietary Sony system), we could forego fiddling with MIDI as a rather archaic way of linking two apps that are made by the same company. I really don't see why they shouldn't be made to work together very well.

Ben

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: drew_

Date:9/12/2006 3:08:04 PM

Hmm never had any probs with the Sony VMR - wish a similar Sony virtual device could be done for audio! ;o)


Ben.. surely we've seen the last of the big new audio-centric features in Vegas?

I'm not bothered so long as ACID 7 gives me a way to import Vegas 6 sessions and work with them in the same way.

I am sure PCH and the team are aiming to put all that fruity Vegas goodness into future releases asap, so we finally get the UberDAW we've all been yearning for... Vegas audio funcionality with ACID loops & great MIDI - yum!

Amen


PS. Since I assume this will involve late nights, please supply details of nearest pizza delivery place and prefered topping.

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: RedStone

Date:9/22/2006 10:49:41 AM

Acid 6 was SUPPOSE to be the all-in-one DAW we were all waiting for ...

It isn't though. Acid DOES do some things REALLY WELL - like loop stretching, midi, song arranging, and rewire (I esp like the stability of rewire in Acid 6) ... but for real mixing, it's not even close to being close to acceptable. Vegas 6 is still superior for mixing, but there are issues in Vegas as well.

[rant] Acid and Vegas SHOULD be one in the same audio feature wise - if Sony want's to compete with the likes of Stienberg and Avid (but of course, that would mean a total restructuring of several things, including marketing) ...But it seems obvious enough ... Vegas Pro Video, Vegas Pro Audio + Video, and Acid (Vegas Audio). Vegas Video can stay as is at Version 6 or 7 ... a combo of audio and video production tools - straight up the middle). Vegas Pro Audio + Video - a behemoth combination of Acid and Vegas (at top $), and Acid (Vegas Audio) incorporates ALL of the audio editing and mixing capabilities of Vegas AND Acid, along with a better mixing structure (not just this bus-to-bus routing business)[end rant]

Anyway .... I feel sort of sad about it all, but since it can't meet my needs as an independent artist trying to record and Mix a CD, I've moved on ... despite the hype, which told me it could ... grrr ... guess I shouldn't have bought into hype.

I'll still use it for what it's good for mind you ... but won't be upgrading to the next version unless it is absolutely smokin' ... and I mean jaw dropping!

Thanks for the help though Peter, always appreciate it!
I still can't get VMR to work, but maybe I'll try midiyoke again - could have botched the installation or something.

R

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: ibliss

Date:9/22/2006 1:03:50 PM

You might also try the maple virtual midi driver found here:

http://www.marblesound.com/Maple_driver.html

It seems to be pretty bullet proof and very easy to set up.

Subject:RE: Using Sony Virtual Midi Router

Reply by: RedStone

Date:9/28/2006 8:55:15 AM

thanks for the link ... I'll check it out and report back