|
Subject:"Drag Copy" to another track
Posted by: animal
Date:8/28/2006 11:44:51 AM
I can't get drag copy to another track to work. What am I doing wrong?....crtl-click-drag....like ever other audio app. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/28/2006 4:06:07 PM
ACID 6 does not support this. Cut -copy -paste using the menus or keyboard is the only alternative method. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: animal
Date:8/29/2006 6:37:36 AM
Say what Willis? This is standard in ALL audio production software. It should be a high priority. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: deusx
Date:8/29/2006 8:01:18 AM
>>>.like ever other audio app<<< but this is not like every oher audio app. It's Acid, it's better. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: randygo
Date:8/29/2006 10:02:20 AM
This is the single most annoying thing with Acid Pro 6. I pray it is addressed in a "6c" update. But, it may be a feature that requires a paid upgrade to Acid Pro 7. Randy |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:8/29/2006 10:54:07 AM
I would have loved to be able to drag clips/events between tracks, but it's nothing life-stopping for me. I can wait. Iacobus Message last edited on8/29/2006 10:54:26 AM byIacobus. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/29/2006 11:37:34 AM
>>I pray it is addressed in a "6c" update I will make it official: It will not be addressed in an update to ACID 6. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: animal
Date:8/29/2006 1:55:03 PM
When will it be addressed? >>I will make it official: >>It will not be addressed in an update to ACID 6. >> >>Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/29/2006 9:45:13 PM
It will be considered as a feature for a future version of ACID. I don't know when that will be. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: BradlyMusic
Date:8/30/2006 8:00:17 AM
Yeah that entire drag and drop thing is entirely overated anyways. Who does MS think they're trying to kid with this type of functionality? Cut/Copy and Paste are where it's really at. Here's the easiest way I've found to do this in Acid. 1. Click on event 2. Hit Cntrl+C(copy) or Cntrl+X (cut) 3. Move your mouse to the far left and scroll up down if needed 4. click on the track header to highlight the track you wish to paste to 5. Hit Cntrl+V I hope this helps. Don't look at the negative side of not having this typical behavior, look at the positive side. My reflexes and wrist strength has been increasing ever since the release of Acid 6. I'm able to smash thru 3 bricks now and am considering entering a karate competition next month. I'm able to catch flies with chop sticks due to my improved hand/eye cordination of jumping from the mouse to the keyboard. I'm telling you this stuff is way better than the Karate Kid's, Mr. Miyagi's Wax ON....Wax Off training techniques. Please don't change it, I love the way it is now. Message last edited on8/30/2006 8:07:19 AM byBradlyMusic. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:8/30/2006 10:13:32 AM
Yes indeed. For instance there is a random playback problem in Acid 6. It sometimes does not play midi notes you recorded. I am now in the nirvana level and thinking that this behaviour is intended to be an Atrificial Intelligence. I think when you perform bad ACID does not play what you recorded. I just delete that part because ACID thinks it is not worth to playback. I beleive in chance and intlligence in the universe. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: randygo
Date:8/30/2006 10:30:04 AM
>It sometimes does not play midi notes you recorded. Seriously, is this still happening, even with 6b!? I encountered this problem with the initial release of Acid Pro 6 but I thought it was fixed in either the 6a or 6b updates. Randy |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:8/30/2006 10:33:23 AM
Seriously, is this still happening, even with 6b!? Yes it is still present on 6b. I am afraid I won't be able to compose if this "performance Advisor" property removed in a future release.. Message last edited on8/30/2006 10:33:44 AM byghanedan. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/30/2006 11:23:37 AM
>>Please don't change it, I love the way it is now. Ok, we wont. Thanks Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: BradlyMusic
Date:8/30/2006 2:04:21 PM
"Ok, we wont." I hope you didn't have to break any internal regulations by making that statement. I know you guys are not allowed to say as to what will and what "won't" go into the next releases. :-) |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/30/2006 3:01:20 PM
Yep. Broke the rules so I could make you happy and you wont have to post again relating to this issue. I consider this issue closed now that BradlyMusic is happy. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:8/31/2006 11:13:56 AM
Sheesh, what is it with you divas? If it's not being able to drag events/clips between tracks a la Vegas, it's the crossfades between events a la Vegas. * If it's not the crossfades between events a la Vegas, it's wanting ACID to make the project for you. ;o) Iacobus * Crossfades a la Vegas almost didn't make it into ACID Pro 6, due to the difficulty it posed, much like the difficulty of dragging events/clips between tracks a la Vegas. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/1/2006 1:51:09 AM
"I consider this issue closed now that BradlyMusic is happy." I think there are still things tb be stated about drag© issue Peter: 1- Because the tracks on Acid are loop based, when a loop is assigned to a track, that track completely becomes owned by that clip. 2- In a fututre release, if drag copy property added, Acid developers must be very careful because of the aforemention track behaviour. I mean, for instance, when I copy a loop to another track, how will the track envolopes, track volume panning etc behave ? Will they change with the copied clip or will they stay in the host tracks settings as they are ? And if such a drag© happens then I must be able to place two different loops on the same track, which is a more serious need than to drag© I think. Message last edited on9/1/2006 1:51:39 AM byghanedan. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/1/2006 2:19:52 AM
So let me suggest an innovation to ACID 7 ALL editing, including LOOPS,MIDI and AUDIO should be CLIP based or OBJECT based instead of TRACK based. I know this is a hard task, but this is the BEST approach to mixed (loop, misi, audio) editing becuase each clip can be manipulated individually. Example software: Samplitude Studio Thanks, |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:9/1/2006 4:47:58 AM
Ghanedan, ummm, you can place more than one loop on a track with ACID 6. These issues have already been addressed in this version. Each track is no longer "owned" by a single loop. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/1/2006 6:25:20 AM
I know that, but you can't use different effects and individual object settings as in samplitude on the same track |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: thenoizzbox
Date:9/1/2006 8:06:37 AM
Personally, I prefer Acid's appraoch to Samplitute's on this. The properties that make sense to edit on an individual clip basis are already implemented that way in Acid Pro 6. Effects should remain track based IMO. I'd much prefer that engeering efforts be put into improving bus routing (addig FX sends to synth busses for example) or to improve trackline editing like drag and drop selections between tracks, etc) Message last edited on9/1/2006 12:34:11 PM bythenoizzbox. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: BradlyMusic
Date:9/1/2006 9:12:06 AM
Well, it would make you guys happier.....since I've already gotten my way. :-) I could see it working just as it does now with my 5 step solution....but it could be widdled down to a couple step drag and drop functionality. 1. Click on event 2. Hit Cntrl+C(copy) or Cntrl+X (cut) 3. Move your mouse to the far left and scroll up down if needed 4. click on the track header to highlight the track you wish to paste to 5. Hit Cntrl+V => 1. Click on event 2. Drag to another Track I can see myself getting real lazy though by elliminating those other 3 additional steps and the result would be less bricks I could break. You guys don't want me getting all soft and fat now, since I've now got the stongest wrists in my studio? Next you guys will want to be able to route buses to anywhere you want or something crazy like that, instead of my 6 step routing solution......Geez...what do you want everything? :-) Message last edited on9/1/2006 9:13:11 AM byBradlyMusic. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:9/1/2006 11:38:01 AM
Guys, I was toying with BradlyMusic! I fully understand what you want and am not against it. Never did like Samplitudes' endlessly complex approach to "object editing". I know that some people do and this is why altenatives exist. I would side with better routing before any Samplitude object non-sense. As always, we will consider all suggestions. Understand that sometimes the answer is no. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/1/2006 12:28:22 PM
Think that I have two clips next to each other on the same track. I want to apply say, phaser to the first and delay to the second (non-destructive). Let's do it with (endless complexity non-sense) object editing: 1- Right click first clip 2- Add phaser 3- Right click second clip 4- Add delay Let's do it in simple track based effects (read Acid): 1- Insert phaser and delay to the track 2- Create phaser envelope 3- Create delay envelope 4- Create 8 point nodes to both envelopes ( -inf, 0, inf, 0, -inf, 0, inf, 0 ) 5- Zoom 6- Assign nodes to relevaant positions so when one is audible other is not Do you really think it's easier ? Of course I could assign them to different tracks. But I was just writing about this, "two clips on the same track" ... ( Don't call SoundForge for help Peter ) Message last edited on9/1/2006 12:43:26 PM byghanedan. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:9/1/2006 3:40:08 PM
I know what you want. ACID permits you to accomplish what you want to do, but in its way, not Samplitude's way - which makes sense since we are not Samplitude. I believe that your work flow is flawed. I could never see the benifit of working this way. I have had this discussion with others many times before - you are far from the first. However, to each his own. I will consider what you have said and discuss it with the other devs, but no promises. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: Spectralis
Date:9/1/2006 10:32:28 PM
I also prefer FX to be per track rather than per clip. The change I would like to see asap is the clip drag and drop option. An idea is to have a clip pool where all the clips in a song can be interchanged in real time. It would be great if we could instantly replace a clip in a track by just clicking another clip in the clip pool. One example where this would be very useful is when auditioning drum loops. If midi clips have their own clip pool then it would be very easy to change midi clips for auditioning purposes as well. All we'd need to do is highlight the clip in the track we want to change and then click on a loop in the clip pool - the clip is then replaced with the new clip. If this could be done while the song is playing then that would be as versatile as asking a musician to play a different riff while jamming in the studio. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/2/2006 1:12:17 AM
"I believe that your work flow is flawed" Peter I am not making 8-beat pop tracks here. I am experimenting as many thing as I can so there is not a standart "workflow" for me. Now I request you to imagine this workflow: 1- You have a main track with a solo instrument. A long single audio 2- At the end of the song you just want the instrument a bit echoed. For this, while working with other (read any) audio application you have to apply the following; 1- You split the audio near the end 2- You add echo to the tail clip. (object based, clip based, destructive, non-destructive whatever you name) In Acid I have to do: ---------A---------- 1- Split the clip 2- Call SoundForge ( and we are NOT in Acid anymore, I don't have to have SF) 3- Apply echo in SoundForge 4- Return to acid and listen the result. 5- If you are not satisified call SF again and again ---------B---------- 1- Split the clip 2- Cut&&Paste it to other track 3- Add echo to track 4- Create and assign fx envelopes. ---------C---------- 1- Split the clip 2- Assign fx to track 3- Mute fx until the tail section ( by the way does ACID consume CPU when fx is muted or at -inf ? ) 4- Create & Assign envelopes and make echo audible at the last section What is wrong with this scenario ? Shouldn't I apply effects ? I coudn't get your point. But really, there is a need for clip based effects.. By the way: There are effects like reverb which can be used track-based, but some weird effects are applied only to little seconds of a track so they should be clip based. And all people wanting drag&&drop should consider these situations.. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: pwppch
Date:9/2/2006 10:11:07 AM
>>But really, there is a need for clip based effects.. I don't agree. But as I stated, we will discuss it for a future version. Peter |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:9/4/2006 9:41:42 AM
"An idea is to have a clip pool where all the clips in a song can be interchanged in real time. It would be great if we could instantly replace a clip in a track by just clicking another clip in the clip pool. One example where this would be very useful is when auditioning drum loops. If midi clips have their own clip pool then it would be very easy to change midi clips for auditioning purposes as well. All we'd need to do is highlight the clip in the track we want to change and then click on a loop in the clip pool - the clip is then replaced with the new clip." ? I know you can cycle through clips in the Clip Pool by simply highlighting the events you want to check out and pressing C to cycle forward; Shift + C cycles backward. Whatever's in the list in the Clip Pool (for that particular track) will be used to replace that highlighted event/clip. You can do this even while your project is playing back (ideally in Loop Playback mode). Is that what you were looking for? Iacobus |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: Illogical
Date:9/4/2006 3:46:36 PM
This is a pretty funny thread. I don't think we need event-specific effects, but more flexibility on routing the busses would be cool. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ibliss
Date:9/4/2006 4:22:43 PM
I would like clip based FX. In Vegas (ok, in Acid too). |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: BradlyMusic
Date:9/5/2006 9:48:23 AM
ghanedan, I understand what you're asking for also. I really don't prefer the event based effects method that you described. I prefer to just cut that section out and move it to another track with the FX applied on that track. The reason is, because if I want to put multiple sections of the root track with the same fx, then I just have to move them to the track with that FX on it. If I want to change the fX, then all the events on that track get changed at the same time when I alter the Track FX. Thus, I don't have to spend further time changing FX's on clips individually. The same if I want to elliminate the FX. That's why I prefer not to have the clip based FX's. What you are describing is one of the reasons that drag and drop functionality is important to a lot of us. I was joking earlier about my preferred work flow....this is currently a PIA in Acid right now. Acid 6 has a lot of good things going for it and I finally like the direction it is headed in. It just looks like we'll have to wait for another version before we see things get finished up. It's good to hear someone from Sony replying and commenting that they are considering these things for the next version. So that's what we'll have to do in the meantime....deal with it, with work arounds and hope that it gets added in a future release. In the meantime, it's just better for me to laugh at it in a humorous manner of how it currently is done, then to get all bent out of shape and express my frustrations. There's a lot of things that need to be brought over from Vegas into Acid yet. So we know that Sony knows how to do these things.....now they just need to do them and have them function properly in Acid. So it's not hopeless at this point....it's just a matter of "when will it happen in Acid?". They seemed to have gotten about 1/2 of the Vegas audio functionality in Acid 6.0 and this is the first version with true multitracking capabilities, so hopefully they'll get the other half in Acid 7. At least that's my hope. I stopped using Vegas after v3.0 and started using Sonar. I like Vegas, but it just wasn't headed in the same direction of my workflow. I still have Sonar, so when Acid's lacking functionality starts to frustrate me, then I open up Sonar and rewire it with Acid, or I do the Acid, 6 step work arounds. I'm just happy at this point, that I can finally record without hearing distortion with auto-input monitoring enabled. Message last edited on9/5/2006 9:57:13 AM byBradlyMusic. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/5/2006 1:17:25 PM
Hi BradleyMusic Track based effects and event applied effects are completely different things and they have completely different usages. While I point the need of clip based effects, I do not offer to give away track based effects. Let me give an example and you will understand my point a bit more: Think that, there is a drum loop, repeating for the whole song. You want the loop to sound in a certain tonality and insert a track EQ. This is okay, this is the way it works. But now think that, for one beat I want to add delay to just a snare of the loop, and next measure I want to add phaser to the same snare. And think that for every measure I do such tricks not just to snare but to kicks, cymbals and snares. Now if I cut these very small portions of loop and paste to other tracks, I will have 30 tracks with each having 1 seconds of distinct snares or cymbals or kicks. That will not only be a graphical space crumble, but also, becuse I inserted 30 distinct track fx, will consume too much CPU. And also my "workflow" will be slowed down. A better option is, on the same track, selecting or splitting these small portions and applying individual effects to thoese sections. You can always delete and redraw the loop if you are not satisfied with the result. And if you now drag-copy the loop to some other track, you will keep this detailed editing in the new host track. All you have to do is setting the track EQ again. I see no crumble or negative side in working this way. In fact, in some musical styles (IDM for instance) you usually work this way. Thank you for the reply, Message last edited on9/5/2006 1:20:36 PM byghanedan. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: BradlyMusic
Date:9/5/2006 2:45:05 PM
Well, there's more than one way to skin a cat as they say. So different folks/different strokes. I can see your point, but you could also do this using the FX's automation and turning FX's ON/OFF to reduce the CPU overhead you mention if that is a concern....because eccentially that's what you're doing with the event based FX's anyways. Acid would just be doing it for you with the method you outlined and who knows if/when the way it's implemented if it would really be turning them off /on anyways to reduce on CPU load? Then for organizational purposes you could use the Acid Track folders option that is already there. CD Architect has the events based feature you're describing. I think it's a nice feature borderlining on the boutique status, but I think it's just as easy with the way it's done in a multitrack environment by placing the events on individual tracks and the Acid folder tracks feature could be used for cleaning up the mess you're referring to. Just my opinion, I'm not against the method you describe of working, I just don't prefer it. Further, tracks with FX's, as well as FX chains can be saved/recalled and automation can already be copied and duplicated in Acid. So, I don't see the real benefit of being able to do the same type of thing in multiple different ways. This is the attraction of Acid in keeping things simple, and being able to do the same thing in 10 different ways just doesn't keep things simple. I think this is the point SonyPCH was trying to point out to you earlier. Message last edited on9/5/2006 2:54:40 PM byBradlyMusic. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: deusx
Date:9/5/2006 6:18:26 PM
>>>>Think that, there is a drum loop, repeating for the whole song. You want the loop to sound in a certain tonality and insert a track EQ. This is okay, this is the way it works. But now think that, for one beat I want to add delay to just a snare of the loop, and next measure I want to add phaser to the same snare. And think that for every measure I do such tricks not just to snare but to kicks, cymbals and snares. Now if I cut these very small portions of loop and paste to other tracks, I will have 30 tracks with each having 1 seconds of distinct snares or cymbals or kicks.<<<<< If you are going to have that many different effects, it's faster to just think ahead a bit and record the drum track like that, then import it into acid and you don't need to tuch it after that, single track, no effects equired 'cause they are already done. Or just try out different things while recording, then when everything is done , redo the drum track and replace. This is faster than cutting and adding effects to 30 different events ( for me anyway ). |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/6/2006 8:13:32 AM
"So different folks/different strokes" Ok, I think you got the point. One more thing to say: "So, I don't see the real benefit of being able to do the same type of thing in multiple different ways" Try the example I had given, yourself, first with your way, and second in my way..(you should of course use something else than Acid to do it in my way) Then you decide if there is a benefit or not.. |
|
Subject:RE: "Drag Copy" to another track
Reply by: ghanedan
Date:9/6/2006 8:16:07 AM
..."it's faster to just think ahead a bit and record the drum track like that" If you use pre-recorded loops (for what I use acid), your solution is not possible. On the other hand, I do agree, while making your own loops or sequences, it's easier to apply effects, or midi tricks before turning it into audio. |