Subject:Full of Newbie Questions

Posted by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/3/2006 1:53:59 PM

Sound Forge 8

1. I've looked and looked and looked, and I can't find where to tell it which drive to work on. I know about Save As and can tell it to save a recording to an external drive, but how do I tell it that from the start so as I'm recording, things will go to that drive?

2. I have the program installed on two computers for comparison (so sue me). One is WinXP, the other is Win2K. The WinXP computer zooms in the file with the mouse scroll wheel. I love it. The other computer scrolls through the file with the scroll wheel.

The XP computer (the one that does what I want) has a genuine Microsoft mouse, the other one has an IBM-branded mouse, maker unidentified. Is there a setting that changes the action of the scroll wheel?

More (or less) to come.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:9/3/2006 2:15:51 PM

There is no way to "save" your recording to a named file while you record. You must always do a save as or save after recording. Until you've saved the recording is hanging out in a hidden temp file. You can, however, choose where to have the temp files created. If you choose the same drive as your eventual destination then the saving step will be lightning fast as all Sound Forge will have to do is change the name of the file and move it's directory entry, as compared to copying the entire file.

Options / Preferences / General. At the bottom of the screen is a place to specify the Termporary files and record folder. I usually create a "sound forge temp" folder on one of my large non-system drives and use this location.

I'm not sure about your second question. I don't see any options for changing those behaviors. However, using shift-scroll-wheel changes from zoom to moving left-right. Perhaps on your 2K machine using shift will change it back to zooming. Try a different mouse?

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/4/2006 5:18:37 AM

> Options / Preferences / General. At the bottom of the screen is a place to specify the
> Termporary files and record folder. I usually create a "sound forge temp" folder on one of
> my large non-system drives and use this location.

Thanks. That's just what I was looking for. I didn't know what to look for, so I missed it.

> I'm not sure about your second question. I don't see any options for changing those
> behaviors. However, using shift-scroll-wheel changes from zoom to moving left-right.
> Perhaps on your 2K machine using shift will change it back to zooming. Try a different
> mouse?

It's probalby a function of the mouse driver rather than the mouse, and I've found that mice are pretty fussy about what they'll do and won't do. I did find something in an FAQ (I think) that referenced a specifc mouse driver, which is probalby an older version of the one I have on the computer on which the mouse works as expected.

The mouse and its driver ("IBM Mouse Suite") that I have on the Win2K computer does nothing when holding the Shift key while moving the scroll wheel. I have too many working mice on shelves and in boxes to bother trying another one. It's not a big deal to just click on the + or - zoom button and hold the mouse button until I get the zoom level I'm after. Also, I like the feel of this mouse enough so I don't want to try housebreaking another one.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:9/4/2006 6:07:36 AM

Well, whatever works best for you ... works best! Go with it.

I never use the scroll wheel on my mouse for anything. I've been using mice for nearly 20 years now, and never had one with a scroll wheel until this year. My brain isn't programmed to make use of it. It would be like suddenly having a third arm or another toe. It would be there, but i'd never think to do anything with it. What amazes me is the number of fellow users who keep nagging me to use the scroll mouse because it makes so many things faster, while all the time i'm not using it and still working faster than they are. *shrug*

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: garrigus

Date:9/4/2006 2:57:26 PM

Hi Mike,

If you are in the process of learning Sound Forge 8, you might want to check out my Sound Forge 8 Power book:

http://www.garrigus.com/powerbooks.asp

Best regards,
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge and Sound Forge 6, SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4 and Sound Forge 8 Power! books. ** Sonar 5 Power The Comprehensive Guide - Now Available! ** Books up to 37% off at:
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Smart Loops Sample Loops Collection and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/4/2006 3:34:41 PM

> If you are in the process of learning Sound Forge 8, you might want to check out my Sound
> Forge 8 Power book:

Scott -

I'm not convinced that I seriously want to learn it yet, but I'm trying to familiarize myself with it. I wrote a book on the Mackie hard disk recorders and I've been known to plug it on the Mackie forum now and then, but I answer questions with more than "buy my book." Let's see how good you are:

Other editing programs that I use can do an automatic crossfade (short, typically 10 ms or so) at a splice point. I see Crossfade under Paste Special in the Edit menu, but I'll be darned if I can figure out just what it does. It sure doesn't paste with a crossfade at the edit boundaries, which is what I was looking for.

Can Sound Forge do this? If so, where's the button and what's it called?

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:9/4/2006 6:12:34 PM

1. Options | Preferences | General "Temporary Files and Record Folder.

2 . Sony are happy for you ti i9nstall to up to 4 PCs, as long as only one is in use at any one time. Or they used to be.

3 . Yes, that's in Windows Settings | Control Panel | Mouse |Wheel. But that doen't compensate for a poor reslution mouse-wheel.

Glad you found your way here Mike !

geoff

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:9/4/2006 6:15:42 PM

You should concentrate on using the wheel. When I come across a mouse (no jokes here please) withoput a wheel, it's like having a hand cut off. In fact in some countries .....

geoff

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/5/2006 4:29:58 AM

Geoff wrote:

> that's in Windows Settings | Control Panel | Mouse |Wheel. But that doen't compensate for
> a poor reslution mouse-wheel.

You're talking about the Windows control panel? The scroll wheel works in other programs, and it works in Sound Forge, only rather than zooming, it scrolls through the audio file. Someone mentioned that there was a toggle (Shift-scroll?) to select betwee zooming and scrolling, but that doesn't work.

I do recall seeing something about a Microsoft mouse driver, and on this machine, since I don't have a Microsoft mouse, I'm using the mouse's own driver, IBM Mouse Suite 1.27M, probably pretty old. I suppose I could try installing the latest Microsoft IntelliPoint driver that's on the computer that zooms with the mouse (that's a real Microsoft mouse) but I'm afraid that will keep the scroll wheel button from working - that's something I use in other programs.

I held off getting a mouse with a scroll wheel for a long time, but when I found one cheap (in fact, I think it was this IBM-branded mouse) I gave it a try and have found it to be too handy to give up.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: garrigus

Date:9/5/2006 8:39:16 AM

Hi Mike,

Your previous questions had already been answered. What am I supposed to do? Guess as to what your next question would be? I don't need any attitude... thank you very much. I've been working with Sonic Foundry and now Sony for a long time and have written several books on Sound Forge. I believe I deserve a little respect. My post was merely a suggestion. Don't like it? Then ignore it.

I've also been posting here for a long time and I help out whenever I can spare the time.

Case in point... as to your crossfade question...

1. Select and copy the data you want to use for mixing so that it is placed on the clipboard.
2. Set the Current Position cursor or set a selection in another open file to specify where to place the mixed audio.
3. Choose Edit > Paste Special > Crossfade.
4. If you set a selection in the file rather than just setting the cursor, you can specify whether the mixing starts at the beginning or end of the selection using the Start Crossfade at Start or Start Crossfade at End options respectively.
5. Adjust the Source and Destination Start Level and End level sliders. These controls determine the amplitude of the clipboard and audio file data at the start and end of the crossfade. For example, if you want the clipboard data to fade in and the audio file data to fade out, set the Source Start level to -Inf, the Source End level to 0, the Destination Start level to 0 and the Destination End level to -Inf.
6. Click OK.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge and Sound Forge 6, SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4 and Sound Forge 8 Power! books. ** Sonar 5 Power The Comprehensive Guide - Now Available! ** Books up to 37% off at:
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Smart Loops Sample Loops Collection and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: kbruff

Date:9/5/2006 9:47:14 AM

I would love if you Mr. Scott Garrigus would post more in this forum. Experienced users with in depth knowledge is very valuable.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: kbruff

Date:9/5/2006 9:47:16 AM

I would love if you Mr. Scott Garrigus would post more in this forum. Experienced users with in depth knowledge is very valuable.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: garrigus

Date:9/5/2006 11:17:22 AM

Hi kbruff,

Thanks very much! I appreciate it. I'm definitely trying to find more time to participate online, but my work schedule is very demanding.

I also run my own forum and have to spend most of my online time there: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/discuss/

I do try to find time to stop here and a few other places though when possible.

Best regards,
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge and Sound Forge 6, SONAR 1, 2, 3, 4 and Sound Forge 8 Power! books. ** Sonar 5 Power The Comprehensive Guide - Now Available! ** Books up to 37% off at:
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free Smart Loops Audio Sample Loop Collection and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 20,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/5/2006 1:28:02 PM

Scott wrote:

> Your previous questions had already been answered. What am I supposed to do? Guess
> as to what your next question would be? I don't need any attitude... thank you very much.

Sorry if we got off on the wrong foot here, but your response did sound more like a plug than an offer to help. But I appreciate your participation, and I appreciate your response to my question.

>... as to your crossfade question...

> 1. Select and copy the data you want to use for mixing so that it is placed on the
> clipboard.
> 2. Set the Current Position cursor or set a selection in another open file to specify where > to place the mixed audio.
> 3. Choose Edit > Paste Special > Crossfade.

Been there, done that, and tried it again following your instructions. What that does is fades over the full length of the section I'm pasting in, and that isn't what I'm after. If I'm pasting in a 30-second segment, the crossfade lasts for 30 seconds, and then CLICK - there's a discontinuity where the pasted-in segment ends and the original sound continues.



Here's an example of what I want to do. The goal is to replace the section of the section with the guitar solo in last night's recording with the same section of the same song from the night before when the guitarist wasn't drunk.

So I load each recording into a separate window. I locate the guitar solo in the "Last Night" window, select it, and cut it out, being careful to put a marker at the cut point so I can find it again. Now, my working file has no guitar solo.

Next, I locate the better solo, select that, and copy it to the clipboard.

Then, I paste it in at my marker. The song will be whole again, with the new guitar solo. Assuming that the timing comes out right, I'll have Take 2 with Take 1's guitar solo, but because I didn't crossfade at the points where Take 2 section was inserted, there will probably be a click at the beginning and end of the spliced-in section.

What I want to do is eliminate the click by crossfading over the first and last 10 milliseconds of the pasted-in section, leaving the rest of the replacement section intact.

I can come up with a multi-step procedure for doing this which involves a window for the "up to the splice" section with a 10 ms fadeout at the end, a window for the "after the splice" section with a 10 ms fade-in at the beginning, and a window with the replacement section with a 10 ms fade-in at the beginning and fade-out at the end, then re-assembling them with the fade sections overlapping, and do a crossfade over that.

I believe that would work, but it hurts my brain just to think about it.

> 4. If you set a selection in the file rather than just setting the cursor, you can specify
> whether the mixing starts at the beginning or end of the selection using the Start
> Crossfade at Start or Start Crossfade at End options respectively.

I don't quite follow that bit I'm getting an idea. I still don't have a handle on how the controls work, but if I check the "Pre/Post fade destination edges" button, I do get a 10 ms fade in the splice area. I tried several combinations of in and out gain but didn't really end up with what I really wanted. Also, I really want to cut out the unwanted part first so if the replacement isn't exactly the same length as the what it's replacing, the song will still flow correctly. I have a feeling that the answer to what I want to do might lurk in this area somewhere, if it's possible at all, but I just don't have the patience to try all of the combinations.

Why is this important? Well, if you're editing on applause or a loud noisy song, the clicks will probalby be inaudible. But if you're editing classical music or a bass solo, not being able to crossfade is a problem.

I really hope the program can do this. It would limit its use as an editor if it can't. If you have access to the FTP site where Tech Support told me I could upload something for them to look at, find my folder there and check out the screen shots.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:9/5/2006 8:56:20 PM

Shift/wheel does the scrolling thing. Wheel alone zooms in or out. Does your keyboard have a Shift-Lock on ? Your mouse focus is over the timeline ?

geoff

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/6/2006 4:12:12 AM

Checked all of that. It's the mouse or driver. I don't want to mess with it since this isn't my primary Sound Forge computer. If it was, I'd just get a Microsoft mouse, install the driver, and I'll bet it would work fine.

Too bad that, as far as Sound Forge is converned, a mouse isn't a mouse isn't a mouse.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/6/2006 4:13:51 AM

Oh, and what's this "focus" business? I've never seen that term used in any other program. Admittedly, I don't get around much. Is it any different than what for years we've called the "active window?"

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:9/6/2006 5:09:29 AM

They're pretty much the same, except that focus is finer grained. Focus can be applied to any element in a window. Right now while i'm typing this response, focus is on the text box labeled "Body:" If i were to type something in the search box at the top of the screen then focus would be there even though i'm still in the same window.

In Sound Forge one window has many items that could receive focus. If you click on a menu then the mouse and keyboard controls will operate on the menu instead of the data on the timeline. The mouse wheel will change what it does depending on which part of the window has focus.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/6/2006 1:29:05 PM

That sounds like just the way things work. I didn't know it had a name, or needed one. Point and click and drag and scroll, all the standard stuff you'd expect.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:9/6/2006 5:00:29 PM

Yep.

BTW - There is a very useful, um tweak, in MS Tweakui (free download - google it) than enables something called X-Mouse emulation, with which the focus (ie active window0 follows the mouse pointer. More useful on big or multiple screens.

geoff

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/7/2006 4:19:17 AM

That seems to work OK.

I'm thinking that a better explanation of "Focus" is like "active window" only you don't have to click the window to make it active, you only have to have the mouse pointer in the window to work in that window. It saves a click each time you change windows, although usualy the first thing you do when you move to a new window is click something, so that makes it active. It's a subtle distinction, unless I'm missing something important.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:9/7/2006 7:44:54 PM

Focus does not necessarily follow the mouse.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Mike Rivers

Date:9/8/2006 3:14:16 AM

I give up.

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:9/11/2006 4:34:01 PM

Mike , things like window focus are nothing to do with SF - they are basic Windows (and Mac) GUI concepts !

geoff

Subject:RE: Full of Newbie Questions

Reply by: mgmadian

Date:5/25/2007 10:26:15 AM

Resurrecting this thread as I haven't come across the answer to this question in other threads and have a need for a similar (easy-to-use and "automatic") cross-fade functionality as described above.

Anyone know the easiest way to accomplish a click-free, "auto-magical" splice in SF9?