Subject:Rendering jacks up the project

Posted by: MUTTLEY

Date:8/23/2006 1:18:41 PM

Okay, maybe that wasn't specific enough.

I'm using Acid 5.0b. I have 5 tracks of voice over on the timeline, different tracks have different effects, I suspect the one thats messing me up is pitch shift. If I try to play the whole thing on the timeline it starts playing stuff at the wrong time and gets out of whack, overlapping, coming in to late, etc, and the same thing happens if I try to render it. But visually everything is in the right place and if I play back just portions on the timeline for short periods, about two seconds, each portion sounds correct. The whole things is only about 8 seconds. The original wav was extracted in Vegas from a CD usuing Vegas's defaut settings.

Hope ya understand what I'm sure was a confusing post.

- Ray
ray@undergroundplanet.com
www.undergroundplanet.com

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: billybk

Date:8/23/2006 2:07:57 PM

Is there a reason you have not installed the ACID Pro 5c update?


Cheers,

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: MUTTLEY

Date:8/23/2006 2:35:24 PM

Don't use it all that often and hate updating in the middle of a project.

-Ray
ray@undergroundplanet.com
www.undergroundplanet.com

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/23/2006 4:38:20 PM

How are you using the pitch shift plugin?

The problem with the pitch shift plugin is that it affects the timing of the entire data. Depending on the settings you are using, the cursor and playback of audio running through the pitch shift plugin will never be correc

Why are you using the pitch shift plugin?
Why not use ACID's built in pitch shifting?

Peter

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:8/24/2006 7:51:16 AM

I have also ran into problems using the pitch shift plugin in Acid 6, I guess this explains why there are problems.

"Why are you using the pitch shift plugin?
Why not use ACID's built in pitch shifting?"

Well, for me I originally tried the built in Pitch shift. It only allows adjustments in Semitones and not cents like the pitch shift plugin does. Semitones was too much of an adjustment for what I was trying to achieve, so I tried to use the pitch shift plugin and I saw crashes with any pitch adjustment.

If it's never going to work properly in Acid and this is a known problem, then I would have to think that "Open COPY in Sound Forge", or " non-realtime FX processing (via Vegas)" would be pretty important features that should have been implemented for Acid 6. From the sounds of it we have no non-destructive work around for processing clips with cents adjustments without those features or finer adjustments with the Acid built in pitch shift.

Unless there is another method that I'm not aware of? Any recommendations?

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: MUTTLEY

Date:8/24/2006 11:46:02 AM

Well I removed the pitch shift in order to use the method you described but apparently the same issue is present when using "Chorus". During playback it starts out fine but starts slipping out of time deteriorating worse as the track continues.

This is not good, not good at all.

- Ray
ray@undergroundplanet.com
www.undergroundplanet.com

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: MUTTLEY

Date:8/24/2006 12:06:50 PM

Okay, I think I've seen something similar before but not sure how to fix it. As I said I used the default in Vegas to capture the audio from a CD. Looking at the file I notice that its 44,100 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, Uncompressed .... my hunch is that its the uncompressed thats the root of this problem. My question at this point is, what compression settings should I use?

Second question, I don't use Media Manager but is there no "Project Media" ? I'm not seeing it under view.

- Ray
ray@undergroundplanet.com
www.undergroundplanet.com

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:8/24/2006 4:18:57 PM

You want uncompressed. Compressing the file will lose clarity.

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: JohnnyRoy

Date:8/24/2006 5:18:12 PM

> Second question, I don't use Media Manager but is there no "Project Media" ? I'm not seeing it under view.

Hi Ray, ACID and Vegas are close but there are some differences. There is no Project Media in ACID. If you are doing 6 tracks of VO’s why aren’t you just using Vegas? (I do all of my VO work in Vegas)

Unless there is some tempo mapping to musical beats that you need to do, it may be easier to get what you want in Vegas.

~jr

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/24/2006 7:53:46 PM

We are looking into the problems related to the pitch shift plugin.

For this type of work, ACID is not the tool of choice - nor is it intended to be such a tool. Vegas provides these features, so my recommendation is to use Vegas for this type of work. It was not the intent of ACID to be a replacement for Vegas.

Alternatively, Forge does integrate with ACID and while "Open Copy..." does not exist, there are manual work flows to achieve the desired results.

We will consider you suggestions for a future version of ACID.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:8/25/2006 9:10:40 AM

Thanks Peter,
I have one question, because I might have found a work around in Acid after digging a little deeper, but I really haven't tried it yet. If I right click on an event in the timeline and select "properties", it brings up a window named "Event properties". In this window it offers me Pitch shitft in semitones but now it has 3 decimel places to make smaller adjustments. So the part that I'm confused about is what is the difference in Acid between an "event" and a "clip"?

"Vegas provides these features, so my recommendation is to use Vegas for this type of work. It was not the intent of ACID to be a replacement for Vegas."

I stopped upgrading in Vegas at V3 and then started using Sonar, because it had the musical features that I needed. Acid 6 was marketed on this site to be a DAW, with loop sequencinng, Midi sequencing, and audio thus I thought it might be a good time to come back, since I preferred the user interface that I had previously used in Vegas over Sonar. Unless Sony wants to send me a free copy of Vegas 6.0 so that I can do part of my work in Acid and the other parts that don't work in Acid to do in Vegas, then I would be happy to use Vegas again. It doesn't look like a worth while purchase for me though, since I really don't see Vegas being developed for audio work any longer.

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/25/2006 1:18:20 PM

An event is simply an instance of audio that plays back on the timeline.

A clip is simply the present medium that's active on the track. Since ACID Pro 6 now allows multiple media per track, it has to distinguish what's active using clips. If you expand a track's listing vertically, you can see which clip is active (and choose a different clip if there is any) via the paint clip selector button.

(The paint clip selector button will also tell you what kind of media you're dealing with. e.g., Loop, One-shot, etc.)

Going a litte further regarding clips, if you record digital audio or MIDI with loop playback enabled, ACID will automatically create a clip for every Loop Region pass on your recording.

(You can actually see where ACID marked the clip in a digital audio recording by accessing the specific clip's properties. You can adjust these markers if you want to.)

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:8/25/2006 1:22:55 PM

Sorry, but that was one of the most confusing replies I have read, but thanks for trying. Can someone give me an explaination of what is the difference between a "Clip" and and an "Event"?

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/25/2006 3:41:03 PM

Think of a clip as the media - i.e. wave file, group of MIDI notes/data.

An event is a window on a clip. If the wave file is say 10 bars long. The event can expose all of it, portion of it, or in the case of a loop, iterations of it.

An event tells ACID when and what portion of the clip to play.

A single clip can be exposed by many events.

Peter

Subject:RE: Rendering jacks up the project

Reply by: BradlyMusic

Date:8/25/2006 5:13:41 PM

Thank you Peter. That's exactly the type of explaination I was looking for. I was actually originally thinking of it in the reverse order, where the clip was a window of the event. So that means when I edit the "Event" properties section of a clip that only that particular exposed section should get the changes, which is what I'm trying to do.

So back to the Pitch shift. By using the Properties and adjusting the pitch in the event properties dialog box should give me exactly what I'm looking for of being able to adjust the pitch in smaller than semitone adjustments. It looks like it's divided into 1/1000th of a semitone adjustment. Which I guess would be a mil instead of a cent. :-)

Now that math thing. 1 cent= 1/100th of a semitone. So if I wanted to raise the pitch 8 cents, I would enter a value of 1.080 and if I wanted to raise it 80 cents, then I would enter 1.800 .

Now to see if this works without the previously experienced problems.