Subject:Mastering, compression = crappy sounding cras

Posted by: LittleStudios

Date:3/22/2006 7:54:43 AM

I'm not sure about this one, but it's been plagueing me. I'll do my final mixdown to wav. the volume is at about 23 db RMS. I'll use my normalizer in SF8 to raise the overall RMS to 16 db. In doing the it adds compression to keep the mix from clipping as the RMS is raised. the thing is my crash cymbols take most of the heat during the compression and they lose there attack. they just sound off. the compression takes the life out of them. oh basically any cymbol now that i think of it. my hihats too sound a bit off. i'm wondering if it's because i have them to loud in my original mix. does anyone have any suggestions on what to do. thanks.

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding cras

Reply by: MJhig

Date:3/22/2006 8:40:58 AM

You want to approach this very differently. First don't normalize at all. second use a multi-band compressor and don't compress higher freqs.

MJ

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding cras

Reply by: LittleStudios

Date:3/22/2006 8:59:58 AM

so are you saying if i have to.... go back to the mixing stage. get my cymbols to a level that i like. then use a multi-band compressor to get the volume out of the overall song that i'm looking for? for a multi-band compressor i have the free VST Stardust. do you know of any freebies you could recommend?

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding cras

Reply by: MJhig

Date:3/22/2006 9:18:55 AM

If you have the full version of SF you already have a Multi-band compressor. To the previous part of your post, basically yes.

MJ

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding cras

Reply by: LittleStudios

Date:3/22/2006 9:24:37 AM

i do have the full version of SF8. i know there's a Track Compressor... i never noticed a muli-band compressor. do you know of any good articles or do you have an explanation of how to use multi-band compression.

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:3/22/2006 11:54:57 AM

"so are you saying if i have to.... go back to the mixing stage. get my cymbols to a level that i like. "

1. Most definitely. Get those cymbals in shape WAY before you mix down to a wav. Crap in = Crap out. Use EQ AND compression to keep them under control. There is no rhyme or reason to try and tame these in the "mastering" stage. If that's the case - your mix needs a lot of work.

2. DO NOT USE THE NORMALIZE FUNCTION. This has absolutely no purpose in creating a final mix. Or in any standard audio job - unless you really have complete crap to work with.

3. A multi-band compressor should generally only make an appearance if you really need to fix something truly lame in the final mix. But since you have the original multi-tracks...See #1 again.

4. If you want overall volume (RMS) increase - you need a balanced combo of both compression and limiting in the mastering stage. Then again - a properly balanced mix shouldn't really need too much of volume boost either. Don't succumb to the "volume wars" for the hell of it. You will squash the crap out of your piece (as your thread title already spells out) and it will end up sounding like crap in the end with too much of an RMS increase.

5.If you want a good multi-band - it's definitely not free. My go-to multi-bands (if I really need them and I resist heavily!) are from WaveArts (Multi-Dynamics) and the UAD-1 Precision Multiband.

6. Full Forge should have Multi-Dynamics plugin if I remember correctly...been a long while since I switched to Wavelab.....

VP

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding cras

Reply by: billc

Date:7/23/2006 1:34:12 PM

One thing you might try before you resort to a remix is to increase the attack time on the comprssor. What this will do is to let the "crash" of the crash come through.

Subject:RE: Mastering, compression = crappy sounding

Reply by: leedsquietman

Date:8/1/2006 7:04:53 PM

Multi-Dynamics is the name of the multi-band compressor in soundforge.

I never normalize, that often just strangles the dynamics. Nothing is as easy as a one button solution for audio !

Compressors used correctly can enhance many sounds, if misused they can squash the hell out of dynamics. Multi-band compression can help if it's just the high end sounds being choked but mutli-band compression isn't alway the answer either. Many pro audio/mastering people frown on the use of multi-band compressors.

Definately getting the mix right should be your first priority, then mixing so it is balanced but with a little headroom, peaks should not average more than -3db (the occasional transient that goes above this is fine .(i.e. your mix should not be clipping or have very high average db, this is what you increase during mastering).

Then all of the settings have to be correct - finding a good threshold and ratio on the compressor is key. If using a limiter (such as wavehammer), also be careful not to turn the threshold down so much that it starts to distort or sound like crap. There should not be too many db's 'over' (the red meter to the right of the L/R meters) otherwise you'll end up with a totally black square of a wave file devoid of dynamics - it will be 'loud' but not sound very good. Like most things audio wise, less is more...