Subject:Best format for archiving?

Posted by: plasmavideo

Date:5/31/2006 6:31:43 PM

I have what will probably end up being about 100 or more 30 to 45 minute audio pieces that I'm dubbing from reel to reel and cassette to digital before the tapes finally fall apart. If possible, I would like to not store them all in WAV format and save some space by using some compression.

What would be the best lossess format for longevity in your opinion? By longevity, I'm referrng not to something physically deteriorating, but for longevity of the format being around and myself or others being able to decode it and recover it and listen to it in the future?

Sony PCA, Windows Media 9 Lossless, ALAC or other?

Also, as this audio is not super critical, would there be a terrific difference in using a high quality, high bitrate lossy format as compared to the lossless format? I don't anticipate any future editing of this material, it's basically for archival listening purposes - airchecks of radio stations I've either worked at or airchecks of friends from other radio stations, some historical broadcasts and some family audio.

All opinions welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Tom

On the other hand, maybe 60 CDs would fit on a shelf easily enough.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:5/31/2006 7:01:27 PM

WAV files zip up pretty well. I've seen 20 to 50% compression.

Also note that WAV files can be burned to DVDs just as easily as to CDs. That would save a lot more shelf space than lossless compression would.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Geoff_Wood

Date:6/1/2006 6:28:01 PM

Archive them in several formats - CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, in different locations. And store the original tapes too. Hard to say which format will have more longevity. WM Lossless would have greater support than PCA I guess.

geoff

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:6/2/2006 5:02:13 AM

"WAV files zip up pretty well. I've seen 20 to 50% compression."

Just be real careful on what app you use to "zip" them up if you want truely lossless recovery when you go back to the archived files later on. I use WINRAR - it offers lossless .wav compression when compressing to the .RAR format using the "multimedia compression" settings.

Easily get 40% reduction in filesize.....

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: mpd

Date:6/2/2006 6:57:03 AM

Be very careful with chosing an archival format if you have regions and/or markers. I did some testing with FLAC a little while ago and noticed that it does not preserve them.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:6/2/2006 7:01:51 AM

WinZip and Microsoft's built in .zip archive function are both completely lossless in all situations.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:6/2/2006 7:13:53 AM

"WinZip and Microsoft's built in .zip archive function are both completely lossless in all situations."

Yes - but I get much better compression and hence much smaller files = better storage capacity with WinRAR.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: drbam

Date:6/2/2006 7:35:09 AM

"Yes - but I get much better compression and hence much smaller files = better storage capacity with WinRAR."

Vocalpoint: does WinRAR reliably and consistently preserve everything in a Sony app project? ie, edits, envelopes, etc, etc.

Thanks,

drbam

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Chienworks

Date:6/2/2006 8:02:43 AM

Programs such as WinZip and WinRAR don't affect anything in the files they compress. They simply squeeze the existing data into a smaller space, then expand it back to full size when you want to access it again. Nothing is lost, nothing is changed. WinZip and WinRAR don't know or don't even care what kind of data they're processing.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:6/2/2006 10:17:14 AM

drbam,

Should take care of everything with no issues. including all edits, envelopes etc. These sorts of items would be contained within the .veg file anyways - yes? WinRAR will just compress the veg down to nothing with no care for what's in it.

VP

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: plasmavideo

Date:6/2/2006 1:46:02 PM

Great thread everyone- thanks!

Not the answers I was expecting - I had not even considered just using a standard zip or rar solution. I was thinking in terms of the more audio related formats like PCA. I guess the advantage to using PCA would be the ability to easily open it without running a different unzip app, but as I'll not be really editing them later, it's not that important.

I'm not even going to try to preserve the tapes for keeping. The cassettes are old as the hills, and with the reel to reel stuff the binder is seperating and I might get a pass or two out of the tapes, or more if I bake them, but that's about it.

Ironically, the reel tapes that are deteriorating are the high dollar Ampex tapes from the late 70s and early 80s. The cheapo stuff from the 60s and later is still intact. That binder they were using back on that Ampex stuff then was a disaster. Even the cassettes from the mid 70s are in reasonable shape - tapewise. The pads are all falling off the head springs, though, and I have some cracked cases.

I had someone bring me an audio tape of his wedding recorded in 1962 recently, and it was still in excellent shape. I was able to play it on a 4 track deck and recover all of the audio just fine at 1 7/8 ips with only a couple of small dropouts.

Subject:RE: Best format for archiving?

Reply by: rraud

Date:6/2/2006 5:11:50 PM

Yeah Plasma,
The Ampex tapes from the 70s- early 80s, this is a well-known problem.
I also recently had Ampex tapes that had to be baked. Other cassettes and a R-R 1960 tape of my brother's college band played fine.
In addition to baking, problem tapes can many times be played succesfully on a closed-loop R-R like the Technics RS1506, which had 1/2 AND 1/4 trk. PB heads. The large diameter capstan, with dual pinch rollers, are part of a huge, heavy 6 or 8 inch flywheel diameter transport which makes a smooth, stable tape movement. One of the studios I worked at had one and we used it all the time when problem tapes came in.