Subject:Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Posted by: ifonline

Date:4/8/2006 7:57:25 PM

I might have missed this one while demoing AP6. Has anyone found a countdown/count-in metronome option? If I'm not making sense or using the correct terminology, what I mean is when I arm a track to record, and click on record to start, I want a count-in of 4 clicks (user setting) before AP6 actually begins recording. That way, I can prepare to play the keys before AP6 begins recording.

Please tell me I just missed this option!

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/8/2006 8:49:39 PM

I've wondered the same thing.

My easy workaround is to start the song at Bar 2.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: pwppch

Date:4/8/2006 9:20:06 PM

ACID does not have a countdown/count-in option.

Peter

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: ifonline

Date:4/9/2006 6:27:06 AM

Why? This is a great feature. I realize that I can just start one bar to the right, but that is silly. In addition, this feature is not only handy when recording at the start of a song, but has its place when inserting in the middle of a song. Sometimes it is to my benefit not to hear the previous bar when preparing to punch-in. A countdown/count-in would eliminate hearing the previous bar while preparing to record.

Besides, when you move the song one bar to the right to make a fake count-in, then you ruin the mixdown. You have to remove that blank bar before mixing down, or else edit out the silent space at the beginning of the song later. Of course, as soon as you remove the blank space that made the fake count-in, you will undoubtedly need to record something at the beginning of the song. So, add the blank space back. Record the new part. Remove the blank space. Mixdown. What a mess.

A count-in feature would not take any time to implement, so how about making it happen? This one feature would help eliminate several issues, and I think there are plenty that are interested in having this.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: GLYPTICminority

Date:4/9/2006 7:09:08 AM

I agree. I have wanted that for a long time, myself.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/9/2006 7:58:55 AM

Sometimes it is to my benefit not to hear the previous bar when preparing to punch-in. A countdown/count-in would eliminate hearing the previous bar while preparing to record.


Well, I guess for a few folks, but I think most users would prefer a little pre-roll before punching in to record. I don't know about you, but I need to hear the context, of the mix, before I punch in, that solo or alternate take. It is not something I would imagine ever using, for punching in. I like how easy it is to punch in, in ACID 6 though. Just enable and set the Loop Region, where you want to punch in, set your track for record, place the ACID edit line, in front of the point where you want to punch in, for a little pre-foll and press Record. As you continue to loop and record additional takes, each take is saved separately, in the Clips bin. You can seamlessly audition the various takes, during playback, by selecting the recorded clip (highlighting) and pressing the C or alternatively the Shift + C keyboard shortcuts.


Besides, when you move the song one bar to the right to make a fake count-in, then you ruin the mixdown. You have to remove that blank bar before mixing down, or else edit out the silent space at the beginning of the song later. Of course, as soon as you remove the blank space that made the fake count-in, you will undoubtedly need to record something at the beginning of the song. So, add the blank space back. Record the new part. Remove the blank space. Mixdown. What a mess.


Huh...........where did you get that workflow from? All you need to do is set your project loop points to begin & end where you want your mixdown to occur and enable looping. When you render, in the "Render As", dialog box make sure the "Render Loop Region only" option in enabled, in the Render options. I do that all the time. No more empty measure(s) at the beginning, of your mix. Works like a charm. :-)


A count-in feature would not take any time to implement


I am not an ACID programmer, but If it was really that easy, within the ACID paradigm, don't you think it would have been in ACID a long time ago, like in ACID 1.0. Well, hopefully for those that truly need it, it will be in a future ACID 7. I was told not to expect any new features, in ACID 6 though. If it is really important to you, by all means, put in an official request to Sony ACID support. If enough users request it we my just see it in a future ACID Pro 7.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: MJhig

Date:4/9/2006 8:22:06 AM

Err billybk, as a drummer, I need an accurate click/count-down. Drummers DON'T play to other instruments, other instruments play to drummers if you expect it to groove.

MJ

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/9/2006 8:47:25 AM

Err billybk, as a drummer, I need an accurate click/count-down. Drummers DON'T play to other instruments, other instruments play to drummers if you expect it to groove.


Well of course, ACID 6 does have an accurate click, just not a count down. I don't play drums, but rather guitar (acoustic, electric, bass) and vocals. As long as I have a few measures of pre-roll, to get in the groove, before the punch, I am good to go. I play to either ACID's click or existing loops (audio or MIDI), to get my groove on. :-P
Hey MJ, maybe you can lay down some drum tracks, for me sometime. If you absolutely need the count-in, by all means, submit a feature request. Just don't expect it before ACID Pro 7:

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/support/productsuggestion.asp

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: ifonline

Date:4/9/2006 10:59:05 AM

billybk:

While I agree with what you are saying, and understand your workflow model, my point was simply that a count-in would eliminate all of the other steps that you have detailed. It is a simple solution, in my opinion, to add the count-in feature.

You mentioned that it would be reasonable that the programmers would have added it in if it were a simple solution and I don't agree. There were decisions that were made in the software that make no sense to me, such as limiting the lowest and highest BPM. Granted, there is an option to extend this limit within the software, but why was time taken to implement this "feature" anyway? Why would the programmers want to limit the lowest and highest BPM? I say this to suggest that it is not an indication of how difficult it is to add the feature I requested simply because it is not present. I suggest that it is not implemented simply because the programmers don't consider it important.

I do consider it important, as others apparently do. I say it should be added, and I still suggest that it would be a simple addition. Heck, it could be as simple as a boolean option, and then when true, pressing record would count down one measure before beginning. It would need to be count-in based on measures because of time signatures other that 4/4. Four clicks as a count-in would not always work.

Ideally, there is an check box to enable or disable the count-in. Additionally, there is a text box to allow me to enter the number of measures to wait before actual recording takes place. Then, when I press record, the software would first check the variable containing the boolean value for count-in, and if true, then read the value for how many measures to wait before recording. The metronome would click off the wait period, the time display would indicate a negative number for how many beats remain, and then control would be returned to the recording routine as normal.

I really don't think that's too much to ask. Besides, moving my entire song a measure to the right not only adds extra steps to finalizing, but it renders the ruler inaccurate. Because the entire song is shifted to the right, I can't simply look at the ruler to determine what measure I am on. I have to remember that the ruler is "off" because the song is shifted. Again, not THAT big of a deal, but it is one less issue if the count-in were implemented.

By the way, a product suggestion was just sent.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/9/2006 7:50:27 PM

ifonline,
if it's any consolation, I do think that a count-in feature will be implemented, but not until, at least, ACID Pro 7 though. Just for kicks, in ACID 6, go to "Options|Customize Toolbar". At the "Customize Toolbar" dialog box, scroll down through the available toolbar buttons, to the very bottom. What do you see? :-)
Unfortunately, it does not do anything right now, but the intention seems pretty clear.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:4/10/2006 11:52:35 AM

Err billybk, as a drummer, I need an accurate click/count-down. Drummers DON'T play to other instruments, other instruments play to drummers if you expect it to groove.

There's a joke in here somewhere. I just know it. ;o)

Iacobus
-------
RodelWorks - Original Music for the Unafraid
Buy Instant ACID by JohnnyRoy and mD!
mD at ACIDplanet

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: ifonline

Date:4/10/2006 5:34:14 PM

billybk:

Hm... I'm sitting at the wrong computer as I type this, so I'll have to go downstairs to the "studio" to check... you have me intrigued! Of course, I am assuming that there is a button option for count-in?!

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: Cheameup

Date:4/10/2006 10:53:33 PM

I agree. this would be a great feature

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: trentemoller

Date:4/11/2006 5:43:53 AM

I totally agree.
I miss that a lot, especially when recording live instruments.
It's a bit stupid to move the whole arr. to bar 2

Hope we can get that Countdown/count.In Metronome in the next upgrade.

This being said, I think Acid 6,0 rocks!!!!!

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/14/2006 7:38:47 PM

When I posted about my simplistic solution to start at Bar 2 I hadn't worked this through.

I just finished working on a Verse, and it was time to start composing the middle eight.
If I place the cursor on the start point, I get no run in to be ready play my first note.

Yet if I place the cursor a bar earlier and start recording, Acid wipes off the notes that were already there. Thank heavens for Undo!

So the ungainly workaround is to record the middle eight on a new track, then copy and paste it to the original track.

I hope soon we will be able to get an automatic bar (or whatever we select) count-in wherever we want to start recording.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/14/2006 9:55:56 PM

Hey Peter,
I am not quite following you. ACID Pro 6 should not be wiping off notes that were already there. The key is to use and enable the "Loop Region" when recording, in the manner you describe. Example:

You have a project comprising 16 audio tracks with a verse (8 bars) & a chorus (4 bars) and you want to tack on a middle eight. You set your "Loop Region" (time selection), for 8 bars starting, at the end of the chorus and enable looping. Place your "Edit" line a bar or two earlier, for an ample lead in. Enable the record button, on the appropriate track or tracks and then press the transport record and start playing along. You will not record a new clip until you reach the begin loop point. You can continue to play, as it loops around and ACID will "stack" the clips, as takes. You can then you use the "C" key to audition the selected clips, later during playback. Pick the ones you like and discard the rest, if you want. The Track Properties window and Clip Pool can come in handy, for managing that also.

In addition, if you are recording MIDI, you can engage the "MIDI Merge Record" function, while using the "Loop Region" record technique and record additional notes, into the track while still keeping the original ones, as you continue to loop around.

Does that make any sense?

You may want to read the "Recording Audio" & "Recording MIDI" sections, of the ACID Pro Help file. Better yet, would be to also read through the same titled sections, in the ACID Pro 6 PDF manual, which can go into additional detail, than that found, in the online help file. Especially about setting pre-roll, time selections, clip pool and choosing active clips.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/15/2006 1:03:58 AM

Thanks Billy - I did know about Takes and Loop Regions, but did not know the trick of starting playback before the Loop.

Presumably if I wanted to do more than one take, the other takes would not then have the lead in, but I don't often use Takes, apart from the occasional "tricky bit".

Thanks again.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/15/2006 6:09:58 AM

Presumably if I wanted to do more than one take, the other takes would not then have the lead in, but I don't often use Takes, apart from the occasional "tricky bit".


In that case, you could simply adjust the begin "Loop Region" to start earlier, to allow a recorded "pre-roll". You can always slip edit the clips, as needed later. The original clips will always be there, as new clips are recorded, at that event, unless you manually delete them yourself. Sometimes it is beneficial to have a recorded "post-roll" too, say if you are recording a solo witha long sustained tail, at the end that you want to carry over into the next section. You can even have three separate events, on a track (or even multiple tracks)inside the "Loop Region" and you only want to record "into" the first & third event. You "Ctrl + left mouse click" to select (highlight) just those clips and when you record only those events will be recorded into. The 2nd event in that "Loop Region" will be left alone.
Another scenerio:
You have an 8 bar clip solo that is great except for the first and last two bars. Use the split event command "S", to split it into three separate clips, at those points. Enable the Loop Region over for the appropriate area and then select (highlight) only the first and last clips (first & last 2 bars, of that solo) leave the middle section alone and for that track, enable "Input Monitoring". Now when you record through that region, only those selected events will have new clips recorded into them, BUT now the middle original unselected event will "play", even though it is in the selected Loop Region.


Like I said, do read the ACID Pro 6 PDF manual "Recording Audio" section, lot's of good info in there, that is all new to ACID Pro 6. I like the way the multi-track recording is set up, it has got a certain ACID flair about it. :-)

Cheers,

Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/15/2006 6:39:45 PM

Thanks again Billy - some good tips!

I should have made it clearer that I'm actually working with midi and soft synths, but presumably most of the audio tips still apply.

Peter

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: billybk

Date:4/15/2006 8:23:33 PM

Yes, the same techniques apply to MIDI recording, as well. I would still checkout the "MIDI Recording" section, in the ACID Pro 6 manual though.


Billy Buck

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: PeterWright

Date:4/15/2006 8:31:16 PM

Yes Billy - I am reading the Manual at every spare moment, and at some moments which are not so spare!

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: alexadigital

Date:5/23/2006 11:54:32 AM

As a person who has sequenced MIDI since the late 80's, I can't believe this function was never added. I'm pretty sure that even my 1st sequencer, a Yamaha QX7, had it way back when.

Just make everyone happy and add it in. People who don't want to use it can still use workarounds...why...who knows!!!

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: thenoizzbox

Date:5/23/2006 12:04:40 PM

Why use workarounds? Make it work like Sonar where you can set any number of measures of count-in or none at all. Works perfect and I agree this is needed in Acid too.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: Keys BeMe

Date:5/23/2006 9:26:05 PM

A metronome count in is an essential feature and has been a staple of software sequencers since their inception. It should be a very simple feature to implement (before ACID7) and is used by all other professional DAW programs currently on the market.

If AP6 is to compete in the pro DAW market, it'll be things like the lack of a metronome, among others, that will make this software the least attractive of the Cubases, Sonars and DP5's.

Subject:RE: Countdown/Count-In Metronome

Reply by: J Psycle

Date:5/24/2006 10:47:03 PM

Man, it was blowing my mind that they hadn't implemented this feature in version 5. It's just stupid to not have it in 6. As far as I know, count in options have been a given for every sequencer I can think of.